Photoshop colour space

[abowie 0]

My D100 has some sort of proprietary Nikon colour space.

 

Is there somewhere I can download this profile from and put it into Photoshop so that they speak the same language?

 

I took some shots of my kids this morning in the garden. As my 1gig compact flash card hasn't yet arrived I'm using highest quality jpg in the camera, not raw.

 

On the D100 monitor and in Irfan view and in ImageReady they looked perfectly exposed.

 

When I opened them "using the embedded profile" in Photoshop they were very dark. When I open them "discard(ing) the embedded profile" they were fine, and printed true.

[craig 0]

The D100 supports sRGB and AdobeRGB color spaces. You select it using the "Color Mode" option of the shooting menu. You also can to configure PS, of course.

[abowie 0]

You also can to configure PS, of course.

Can you elaborate on this please?

 

I have the D100 set for sRGB as I gather that the AdobeRGB setting is not compatible with PS 7.

[scorpio_fish 5]

You can select either sRGB, Adobe RGB, or a modified Adobe RGB on your D100.

 

In Photoshop under Edit/Color Settings, click advanced and you set PS working space. Set working Space RGB to match your camera.

 

When the output is going to be a print, you can go to View/Proof Setup/Custom and change the profile to match you printer profile if you have one. Then you can click on View/Proof Colors to have your monitor display what it thinks the print will look like.

[abowie 0]

You can select either sRGB, Adobe RGB, or a modified Adobe RGB on your D100.

 

In Photoshop under Edit/Color Settings, click advanced and you set PS working space. Set working Space RGB to match your camera.

I have my camera set for sRGB as the AdobeRGB doesn't seem compatible with Photoshop

 

I would like to set the Photoshop working space to match the camera but I don't know what option to use; there's nothing called "Nikon sRGB" for example.

 

I wondered if it is possible to download and "plug in" the appropriate profile. What are other D100 users doing?

 

FWIW I'm not using .nef files both because of lack of CF card space and also not having the proprietary Nikon software.

[abowie 0]

A sort of answer from Photo.net It's worth reading the whole thing but I've pasted a bit below. Essentially it seems that the D100 firmware incorrectly tags the file even though it correctly set the colour space. Photoshop then thinks that the file is set incorrectly and asks if you want to convert it:

 

"John DeMott , aug 11, 2002; 12:53 p.m.

I struggled with this problem when I first got my D100. Nikon tech support were totally ignorant on the subject and claimed that it was an Adobe problem!

 

If you use the Nikon software to transfer AND edit a file, then it will be correctly tagged as Adobe RGB (assuming that is how you set the camera), but not otherwise. When you open an incorrectly tagged file in Photoshop, then assuming you use Adobe RGB as your working space, the pop-up dialog box offers three options. Do not use the "convert" option--that option assumes that the file was CORRECTLY tagged as sRGB. If you were to "convert" the file, Photoshop would (wrongly) convert the color values in the file to match the "new" colorspace. Since the problem is not the color values (which the camera has properly recorded in the Adobe RGB colorspace), but rather the incorrect tag, you want to discard the tag when you open the file, and then, as soon as the file is opened in Photoshop, assign the correct colorspace tag, i.e., Adobe RGB. You should immediately see the correct colors on screen.

 

 

I don't have this problem with files in the RAW mode since I must use the Nikon software to convert them to a format Photoshop can use. This results in the proper tag being applied. A jpeg file transferred with Nikon software and then opened without modification in Photoshop will still be incorrectly tagged."

[Marc Furth 3]

I never had any luck using any color space available till I bought and calibrated my monitor and created my own color space for my printing.

 

I bought a Color Monitor Spider and it attaches to your monitor and you adjust the color of your monitor to it’s optimum out put. It than creates a color space for all your printing. When I import my pictures in to Photo Shop I use this color space. My pictures are printed to match the colors that my monitor is displaying. My pictures have never looked better, I highly recommend investing in a device that will calibrate your monitor.

 

Marc

[scorpio_fish 5]

I would like to set the Photoshop working space to match the camera but I don't know what option to use; there's nothing called "Nikon sRGB" for example.

 

Select sRGB in Photoshop.

 

I remember the problem with the mistagged files. I don't remember what fixed the problem, but it went away.

[abowie 0]

Select sRGB in Photoshop.

Selecting sRGB for both camera and Photoshop gives me very dark images.

 

I'm just going to leave things as is and select the "not convert" option.

 

As an aside I do have Nikon View v6 bundled with my D100.

 

I haven't loaded it as I found it's predecessors v4 and v5 not particularly useful with my CP5000 and prefer to use PShop for editing anyway.

 

Am I missing the point here? Should I load and use it? I gather I will need it to convert .nef files to .tiffs anyway.

[mondo 1]

sRGB is only a useful colour space if you are planning to use images for screen (web, etc) uses only.

 

For printing, its gamut is quite limited, and Adobe RBG is a far better option.

 

I havent run into the issue you guys have been talking about as I use RAW and Photoshop CS (with the RAW converter built in)

[Marc Furth 3]

Under color settings in Adobe Photo Shop my profile setup is... Assume profiles RGB: Photo Cal Pro file icm. This is the profile created by my Colorvision monitor spider. I use this profile so what I see on my monitor is matched to the out put of my printer. It’s been most accurate compared to the hit and miss I’ve experience using any other choice. Before I bought the Color Vision Spider my prints never printed out looking like what was being displayed on my monitor.

 

Since no one commented on my first reply to your thread, I’m assuming that you guy’s might be talking about something different ?

 

Marc

[mondo 1]

Hi Mark

 

Using a monitor profile as your RGB workspace is generally not a recommended procedure.

 

The colour gamut of any monitor is limited when compared to film, or the gamut of a high end capture device like a D100. It means you'll be using a limited space to make colour corrections, etc.

 

Moreover, the colours are likely to only look "right" on your monitor, and will be very different on all other display devices.

 

A monitor profile should just be that - a display profile. Photoshop will automatically "modify" what you see from your working space to your display profile, and will do the same on other devices. But the working space needs to be "device independent" to be useful

 

A profile to use in your working space should have a wide enough gamut to cover print and online needs, and should be easily able to transfer to another device. sRGB, Adobe RGB and others do that job as they are device independent. Each device in your chain should have its own profiles for the specific purpose.

 

I recommend Adobe RGB over sRGB as it has a much wider gamut and is better suited for printing as a final output. sRGB is fine for web or screen display, but is limited for print. Adobe RGB (1997) covers both well.

 

My recommendation (based on having read a lot of stuff by people who actually have a clue) is to use Adobe RGB as your colour space on your D100 and as the default working profile in Photoshop.

 

I also heartily recommend a couple of things

[mondo 1]

Am I missing the point here? Should I load and use it? I gather I will need it to convert .nef files to .tiffs anyway.

Hi Andrew

 

Not if you get/upgrade to Photoshop CS, or get the Adobe Camera Raw.

 

Or download Bibble or similar

 

All these do RAW conversions for NEF.

 

Best

 

Des

[Marc Furth 3]

I think I got the jist of your explanation, but how are you judging the color of you preprinting if you don’t know if your monitor is displaying colors accurately?

 

If your monitor is off ever so slightly and your images have lets say a bluish cast to them, it’s almost impossible to color correct it if your monitor is not displaying it correctly.

 

I use a 17" View Sonic Graphics Series monitor that lets me adjust each of the three electron scanning guns in the process of the calibration. It’s recommended that you calibrate the monitor every three weeks to keep the display accurate.

 

The Monitor Spyder also comes with software that allows you to profile the paper your printing to. You get a color chart image file that you bring into Photo Shop, then you print it using the paper that you want a profile for. Than you scan that image back into your computer to complete the process.

 

I ‘ve ordered my free copy of Thom Hogan’s guide to the Fuji S2 Pro, and thanks for putting up with my ignorance.

 

Marc

[mondo 1]

Hi Mark

 

Colour management is a big topic, and it takes a lot to get your head around it. I am certainly no expert, but am reading widely in an effort to get it right.

 

Calibrating your monitor, and having its own display profile is vital, so well done on making this important step. Like you, I use the Spyder, and a hardware based calibration tool is ever so much better than visual tools, like Adobe Gamma.

 

Once you've calibrated and created a profile (and this probably needs to be done every 2 weeks or so), this should become your default display profile under your OS.

 

In Photoshop, you set a working space for RGB, and this should be a space with a much wider gamut than your monitor display profile. Certainly your S2 Pro can capture a lot more colours than your monitor can display, and you don't want to lose those, especially if you later send images for printing or other purposes.

 

In its own engine, Photoshop knows that you have a different display profile than your working colour space, and it deals with this, ensuring that there is integrity. It translates on the fly, so you get colours that are true to what you would see, but don't lose the full gamut of colours captured.

 

When you print, the printer has its own profile again, and again Photoshop will make the conversion.

 

Interestingly, most desktop printers have an even more limited gamut than do monitors, but not necessarily the same colours are lost. Thats why you work with a wide gamut space for a working space, and let the software do the conversions based on the profiles of the individual devices you work with.

 

Anyway, I reserve the right to be wrong about some or all of this, but this is my understanding of a complex topic.

 

Thom Hogan's book will get you started in the process.

 

Good luck

 

Des

[scubag 0]

Des and or Mark,

 

I'm getting ready to invest in a large (20"+) monitor for my Mac. Any suggestions on CRT vs LCD? And this "Spyder" calibration tool you mention, does it work with any monitor or just specific brands / models?

 

Doug

[mondo 1]

Hi Doug

 

Can't really help on the monitor side of things, as I am a Windows user. But unless you're really into very fine pre-press stuff, the quality of the recent LCDs will be more than enough for most applications..

 

Re. the Spyder - its a third party device, and AFAIK it will work with all brands of monitors.

 

One suggestion, make sure you get a monitor that allows you to adjust the individual Red, Green and Blue settings - this will make it much easier to BOTH calibrate and profile the monitor.

 

If you're serious about your digital uw photography, you need a good digital darkroom, and in this process, colour management is not something that should be ignored.

 

Good luck

 

Des

[scubag 0]

Thanks for your help, I'll have to investigate this more in detail.

 

Doug

[Marc Furth 3]

Hi Doug,

 

Here’s a link to Digital Camera Review, It’s got a review on the Color Vision Monitor Spyder.

I think it will help you with any further question you might have.

 

This is a older review, I believe they are now offering calibration of LCD panels.

 

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/colorvisionmonitorspyder/

 

 

Marc