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Drew

Sony PMW-F3

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Sony has announced a S35mm (APS-C) sized Cinealta camera using a MPEG-2 Long GOP codec similar to the XDCAM EX codec at 23.976 fps. In essence, the F3k is basically the EX1 with a bigger single sensor and 23.976p recording and comes with 35,50 and 85mm T2.0 prime lenses:

PMW-F3k official specs

 

pmw-f3k(img1).jpg

 

PRELIMINARY PRODUCT INFORMATION

The PMW-F3K is part of the CineAlta 24P family of digital cinematography products and its support for multiple frame rates includes a filmic 23.98P as well as S-Log workflows.

 

Sony’s Exmor™ Super35 CMOS sensor was designed with the benefit of two decades experience in Digital Cinematography, pioneering digital HD acquisition for feature films and broadcast TV through the legendary CineAlta product range. It brings a true ‘film look’ and superior image quality into reach for independent movies, pop promos, commercials and other applications, as well as making the PMW-F3K an ideal B-camera for high-end feature film production.

 

The PMW-F3K is supplied with three high quality Sony lenses and an industry standard PL Mount adaptor providing compatibility with industry standard 35mm lenses. (Also available is the lens-less PMW-F3L.)

 

Exceptional flexibility is a key feature of the PMW-F3K along with with multiple workflow options. XDCAM EX’s proven high-speed, intuitive workflow offers seamless integration with leading nonlinear editing software - as standard. In addition, a 10bit 4:2:2 HD-SDI output opens up hybrid recording possibilities with a variety of external recording devices. And from April 2011, a Dual Link HD-SDI option will enable 10bit RGB uncompressed signal output - ideal for the high-end film production.

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The camera does look good but I can't believe that in camera recording is still 4:2:0 and 35mbps. I would have thought that they would have bumped that up to 4:2:2 and 50mbps like the Canon.

 

Price could be a little high too compared to the Panny AF100

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The camera does look good but I can't believe that in camera recording is still 4:2:0 and 35mbps. I would have thought that they would have bumped that up to 4:2:2 and 50mbps like the Canon.

 

Price could be a little high too compared to the Panny AF100

 

 

Totally agree...

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IAs Sony always does, it wants to segregate the various levels of cameras. Even in the press release, they are selling this as a B cam. I seriously doubt any housings will be made for it.

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IAs Sony always does, it wants to segregate the various levels of cameras. Even in the press release, they are selling this as a B cam. I seriously doubt any housings will be made for it.

 

I just reckon it's too expensive for what it is.... Out of interest Drew what would be the difference in low light capability of 4/3's over APC?

I put this in another thread but I suppose it is relevant here too.

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I just reckon it's too expensive for what it is.... Out of interest Drew what would be the difference in low light capability of 4/3's over APC?

I put this in another thread but I suppose it is relevant here too.

 

dxo makes it seem like there isn't much difference at low iso's between the gh2 and the sony nex5, with difference growing in favor of the nex at higher isos.

http://www.diwa-awards.net/wip4/lab-results/l.epl?cid=12157

 

something i've found with larger sensors is that narrow dof is a tough beast to tame when shooting underwater video marco. you need a lot of light!

however, for wide angle and non macro, as we've seen with 5d footage, larger sensors do make great use of what light is available.

Edited by Huw Jenkins

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I also just read somewhere that the Sony sensor is using larger pixels so that it avoid line skipping etc etc and that the sensor was specifically designed for this camera.

 

I hear you on the shallow DOF when underwater, great for topside interviews etc but not so good when trying to shoot wildlife.

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F3 looks awesome, but £20k? Ouch.

 

 

 

Have a look at:

 

http://www.eoshd.com/content/431-Sony-F3-W...h-so-much-money

 

 

http://www.eoshd.com/content/446-Sample-So...rst-impressions

 

 

I think Sony are in a state of denial concerning developments in the world of vidDSLR's and large chip camcorder spin-offs (AF100). :)

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Yes I agree the F3 seems awfully overpriced. The XDCAM EX format is well established yet recently on a talking head shoot an EX1R showed Moire and Aliasing far worse than the H264 from the 7D that we were using for comparison/Bcam. Although its still in post and therefore still subject to change we're currently using the 7D footage and EX1 audio in the final edit and have ditched the EX1 visuals altogether. I'd never have believed that would be the case before the shoot....

 

Cheers, Simon

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Wow that blogger sure is opinionated.The clip is from a prototype camera shot by someone who's never used the camera before,in a dimly light environment and he's still able to come up with judgements that betray his lack of knowledge about production work. The F3 is expensive but it has things no other camera in its class has... like 10bit 4:2:2 out to HDCAM SR. It's not meant to be in the same segment as ViDSLR or AF100.

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I think comparing the F3 to a HDSLR is a bit silly too (I know which one I'd rather use!), but EX1/EX3's both have 10bit 4:2:2 out and they are not £20k/$30k! I would (probably) pay a premium for this over an AF100, but 4 times the price seems way too much to me. It definitely appears to be pitched to the money no object crowd. Still waiting to see what Canon eventually come up with.....

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But the EX cameras are 1/2" sensors (vs APS-C size) and can't use PL mount lenses. It's basically an EX one with a big sensor and PL mount. I know many people who'd buy just to fully use Arri Primes on a compact camera.

The point is that Sony and Panasonic aren't trying to reinvent the wheel while offering a few of the things customers want. Hopefully Sony won't protect their higher range products by selling inferior lower products anymore but I doubt that'll ever change.

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I think comparing the F3 to a HDSLR is a bit silly

 

Although comparing the 7D to the Ex1 is okay????? Totally different species of camera me thinks... Looks like the new Panny/Sony's have stirred the VIDSLR users on most forums as they will blow them away. No one likes the thought that they have wasted money when better cams come out however as per usual its making do with what you have got. Fact is the EX1 is the workhorse of the moment just like the Z1's of yester-year I've heard different views from lots of corners but give the Ex1 a boost with nano and it will (for now) be all you need... Pity I cannot afford one :) Oh yeah, there is always RENTAL!!!!

 

Dive safe

 

DeanB

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F3 is definitely a different beast to a HDSLR, I would more be comparing it to an XDCAM HD cam in which case the 20K price tag is pretty reasonable.

It will be interesting to see if housings will be made for it.

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Although comparing the 7D to the Ex1 is okay????

 

 

:) Comparing an EX1 to a HDSLR as a 'camera' is silly too, but comparing the results you get from them is an entirely different matter.

 

BTW I looked at renting a bit of kit recently. For 1 weeks hire it would have cost me 50% of the cost of actually buying the dam thing. Hiring can be bloody expensive sometimes and is not always the solution. :)

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:) Comparing an EX1 to a HDSLR as a 'camera' is silly too, but comparing the results you get from them is an entirely different matter.

 

As comparing the F3's 'results' to the 7D's... You can compare any camera's result to another there's nothing 'Silly' about it just sometimes a bit 'David and Goliath' like Red to say, a camera phone although I see someone has actually made a film with a HD smart phone that stars Charles Dance...

 

BTW I looked at renting a bit of kit recently. For 1 weeks hire it would have cost me 50% of the cost of actually buying the dam thing. Hiring can be bloody expensive sometimes and is not always the solution. :)

Agreed!!! Rental is not always the best option especially if you need to hire on a long term basis ... For short term it, sometimes, can be a god send.

 

Dive safe

 

DeanB

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Wow that blogger sure is opinionated...

 

Ha ha...that's why he's been permanently banned @ the DVX forums. But still, he does challenge the mainstream view on many issues...and his blog doesn't have some of the a*** kissing that goes on elsewhere.

Edited by HDVdiver

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Ha ha...that's why he's been permanently banned @ the DVX forums. But still, he does challenge the mainstream view on many issues...and his blog doesn't have some of the a*** kissing that goes on elsewhere.

 

Challenging with knowledge and logic is one thing, chip on the shoulder without any basis is just plain... well... I'd consider banning his blog here too just for the drivel but we have drivellers here too often to do that. :)

 

I just got an email to say that I get to play with one on the 1st Dec which will be cool

 

Just vlog about it :) I was suppose to play with one as well but preferred my holiday :)

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Challenging with knowledge and logic is one thing, chip on the shoulder without any basis is just plain... well... I'd consider banning his blog here too just for the drivel but we have drivellers here too often to do that. :)

 

I totally agree with that Drew I've stopped using a lot of forums as certain members only seem to use it for boasting and feeding their ego's!!! the 'look at me types' who have loads of gear, travel everywhere yet only shoot, well, basically holiday video's, then go on to criticise other members lower priced camera's and abilities. As an eminent cameraman once said to me when I spoke to him about it " well Dean you can give any MONKEY a camera"... Don't get me wrong there is nothing wrong in holiday video's (i have done a few) however certain peeps seem to go on like their something special... Drives me mad

 

Dive safe

 

Dean(Sorry all, rant over)B

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My biggest apprehension about the F3 and some of the other supposedly Pro level cameras is that they are still using CMOS sensors with rolling shutters. From a manufacturing point of view this makes sense since CMOS advances/advantages are coming from the still camera industry. The problem is, while excellent for still cameras current generation CMOS chips aren't really up to the task for all types of pro video aquisition...largely due to jello/skew and lighting artefacts.

 

Skew/jello is less of an issue for underwater videographers (except for macro work). Rolling shutter artefacts are a real pain when other divers in the picture are shooting with strobes. Even RED footage can be easily ruined in these circumstances. This is where the old CCD's of the F900 and most recent JVC's are still an advantage (but not so good in other ways).

 

For someone like myself who shots topside documentary (wildlife) using long focal length lenses, the jello artefacts of rolling shutter CMOS is a nightmare. The bigger the CMOS chip the worse the problem. Panasonic and Sony (and RED and Arri) keep tweeking their sensors and the way the info is read off the CMOS to reduce the problem...but it's still noticeable. Still there on the AF100. Horrific on the vidDSLRs including the smaller M4/3 sized GH13.

 

From a purely personal requirements perspective I would happliy spend $10k to $20k on a Pro camera that had a Global Shutter CMOS...but I quess that'll have to wait for a while yet. :)

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Yes well, anyone using CMOS sensors to shoot a helicopter's blades rotating (or any fast moving object) either have directors who don't care that the blades are bent or should be fired. :)

I'm not really surprised global shutter CMOS, hasn't made it to the masses anytime soon. Dalsa, for one, makes them and they aren't exorbitant. Last I checked the Falcon was under $6k.... well then you have to get the right capture equipment etc etc :)

But then again, rolling shutter can be controlled. look at how the Phantom HD manages... albeit it is a 100k camera. It can change the "shutter" sampling to manage as shutter speed and it's specialized for high speed capture.

I do think rolling shutter skew concerns are only an issue in specialized shots and thus over-exaggerated. An experienced DP should know what camera to use for what situation and if the budget can't carry it, then they'd have to shoot around the weaknesses of the camera they have and/or live with the shortcomings.

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Feel better now? :)

 

Yes thanks mate ... :)

 

Dive safe

 

DeanB

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