Advice on buying my first DSLR

[jefdriesen 4]

Hi,

 

I have been using a compact camera for about 5 years, and have been thinking about buying a DSLR because I'm reaching the limits of what I can achieve with my compact camera. Since my compact flooded a couple of months ago, I'll have to buy a new camera anyway, so this is the perfect opportunity to bite the bullet and go for a DSLR. My existing setup was as follows:

• Canon Powershot A620
  
• Canon WP-DC90 housing
  
• Sea and Sea YS-110 strobe
  
• Inon UCL-165M67 and UCL-330M67 macro
  

I dive weekly in the local area (Belgium and The Netherlands) and occasionally a holiday in a more tropical area (Egypt, Mediterranean Sea, Philippines). I'm mainly a macro lover, but I do enjoy wide angle too, although that was pretty limited with my setup. I have never used a DSLR before.

 

I have been looking around on the internet and arrived at the Nikon D90 (and the newer D7000). Since my budget is limited, I think the best option will be an Ikelite housing. I know many people recommend an aluminum housing instead (more solid, etc), but they are much more expensive. I haven't made a choice between the D9 and D7000 yet. On one hand the D90 is a little older and I may be able to buy a second hand setup with an aluminum housing within my budget (but I haven't found those for sale yet). On the other hand the D7000 is a newer camera, and I won't be buying a new camera soon, so the one I buy will have to last for many years.

 

Will I be able to use my existing YS-110 strobe with this setup?

 

The toughest choice is maybe which lens should I buy? My friends advice me a 60mm as the best option considered the local conditions (low visibility) and my preference towards macro. But I also want to use my camera for land photography. Nothing fancy, just some family photo's, holiday memories, etc. Can this be done with the 60mm or would it be better to buy a second (reasonable priced) lens for that? Which lens would you recommend for wide angle (keeping the budget in mind again)? Is there a single lens that could fulfill the last two items (land photography and wide angle)? I understand that this will probably be not the best wide-angle lens, but just something that I could start with, and then buy a better one later.

 

Jef

[loftus 42]

You can't go wrong with a D7000 and kit lens and 60mm for land use to start. If budget is a big issue get an Ikelite housing. If you can stretch the budget get an aluminum housing for better ruggedness and ergonomics.

The main thing to remember, once you start down this road, you won't stop. Next will come more lenses and ports, a second strobe etc.

[Scubysnaps 9]

You cant go wrong with this choice

http://wetpixel.com/forums/index.php?showt...mp;#entry275277

[diver dave1 23]

For your land lens option, the 18-200 VR is really nice to use. It covers reasonable wide angle and telephoto all with one lens. Its of no use underwater but its your land lens. It costs more than the standard kit lenses but it can be the only land lens you need for nice vacation/travel uses. I love mine. When you buy your camera, you might consider asking what the upgrade charge would be from the standard kit lens. Perhaps it would not be too much.

[pdemaagt 6]

the 60mm is a good choice for macro for diving in Belgium and the Netherlands. Also you strobes should be working fine. For land based i would buy a second lens. Most Nikon set's are sold together with a standard lens. Most of the time not the one you want for underwater, but perfect for starting above water.

Peter

[jefdriesen 4]

For the Ikelite lens ports, what are the (dis)advantages between the modular and the standard lens port option?

 

For the Nikon 60mm, would you recommend buying the older AF-D version, or the newer AF-S version?

[Paul Kay 62]

If you are diving in temperate areas a lot (which it sound like you may well be) then I'd be one of the people who would suggest an aluminium housing. If you are tight on budget then I'd strongly suggest a secondhand housing too although this might take some time to find. The 60 is a great choice of lens - either will deliver good images but the older one, although slower to focus, will be cheaper.

[ardy01 0]

If I were you I would start looking for a second hand system. I went through this evaluation about 2 years ago and it is hard when you add up all the bits you need, to get away with a new Nikon system for less than $5k (and I owned all the lenses) assuming you need a dome as well as a standard/macro port. If you rush out and buy the camera and housing without adding in all the extras you will end up paying a lot more than you think.

 

I bought an Olympus set up for about 2.5k and sold all my Nikon stuff which I am very happy with. They have now discontinued the mid range DSLR's, that doesn't concern me but if I was buying now it would. There are complete set ups on ebay from time to time and guys sell set ups here. BH photo has basic camera and housings at reasonable prices but a dome can cost close to a grand. I have never owned an Ikelite housing but leak issues arise on this site and others a bit more often than other housings.

 

The 60mm is a good lens but I always preferred the 105 still it would not be as handy out of the water as the 60mm.

 

You don't really need to have a budget but an idea of the maximum is handy. I found that guys buying new set ups often spend more than they think but end up happy with their choice.

 

Maybe you should also look at the EVIL cameras, don't like not having a viewfinder myself but I am sure they will suit many stepping up from a PS.

 

Still it is not easy to see a path that suits you and what you are prepared to pay.

[john70490 3]

I have never owned an Ikelite housing but leak issues arise on this site and others a bit more often than other housings.

 

Really? I have followed Wetpixel postings for several years and have not seen more reports of flooding with Ikelite housings than with other makes. Carelessness and user error can lead to flooding with any housing but I can I see no reason why Ikelite housings should be more prone to flooding. In fact, the ability to check that the o-rings are properly seated and compressed and the, in my opinion, excellent port lock system, now with four locks, should reduce the risk compared to many other housings.

My recommendation would be to look for a used Ikelite housing. Used Ikelite ports are not hard to find (keep an eye on E-bay and put a Want-to-buy ad on Wetpixel and Scubaboard) and are much cheaper than other makers' ports. I recently bought a couple of ports to have as back-up, paid $55 for the 6" dome (for the Tokina 10-17mm lens) and $60 for the 60mm port.

Edited February 18, 2011 by john70490

[jefdriesen 4]

Thanks for the feedback so far!

 

Is there any difference in functionality between an Ikelite housing and the aluminium housings? Is for example the choice of lenses more limited? What about things like using teleconverters, etc? I'm sure I won't be using any of those in the near future, but that might change in a couple of years. Will I be able to expand later on equally well with an Ikelite?

[pmooney 6]

Really? I have followed Wetpixel postings for several years and have not seen more reports of flooding with Ikelite housings than with other makes. Carelessness and user error can lead to flooding with any housing but I can I see no reason why Ikelite housings should be more prone to flooding. In fact, the ability to check that the o-rings are properly seated and compressed and the, in my opinion, excellent port lock system, now with four locks, should reduce the risk compared to many other housings.

My recommendation would be to look for a used Ikelite housing. Used Ikelite ports are not hard to find (keep an eye on E-bay and put a Want-to-buy ad on Wetpixel and Scubaboard) and are much cheaper than other makers' ports. I reecently bought a couple of ports to have as back-up, paid $55 for the 6" dome (for the Tokina 10-17mm lens) and $60 for the 60mm port.

 

 

Check this out - the polls a few years old but speaks volumes Flooded Housing Poll

Edited February 18, 2011 by pmooney

[Scubysnaps 9]

I had an Ikelite for a Canon G9 and I flooded it, when I got my Aquatica I realised the good thing about the matt black surface where the o ring is, is that it is very easy to see any debris on the O ring, whereas with the ikelite's clear plastic, things dont stand out.

You did see my "for sale" ad didnt you!? best 2nd hand housing on the market in my opinion, and I'm not being biased at all...honest! its all just been serviced by Aquatica and given upgraded parts you cant get a better 2nd hand aluminium housing than that!

ikelite also are a basic universal box they use for many cameras with buttons put in a different position to suit the camera. Aluminium housings are specifically machined for that camera, making the housing a lot smaller. My second handf price is probably the same as a brand new Ikelite, bargain in my humble opinion

[john70490 3]

Check this out - the polls a few years old but speaks volumes Flooded Housing Poll

 

As many people pointed out, the poll tells us absolutely nothing. For example, "I think all you will determine with this poll is which housing model is the most popular. Looking at the current results, the Ikelite has flooded more often than any other brand. Could that be because there are probably 10 times as many Ike's as any other model simply because of cost?"

What is more, over half the responders admitted that the cause of the flood was user error. 'Nuff said!

I still maintain that there is no reason why Ikelite housings should flood more often than other makes.

[john70490 3]

Ikelite also are a basic universal box they use for many cameras with buttons put in a different position to suit the camera. Aluminium housings are specifically machined for that camera, making the housing a lot smaller.

 

Not true! Ikelite housings are specifically moulded to fit the camera, just as aluminium housings are specifically machined. If they weren't, they'd all be the same size.

There's no doubt Aquatica make excellent housings and yours may be a bargain but I'd be willing to bet I could get a used Ikelite housing for less than half of what you are asking for your housing.

[jefdriesen 4]

You did see my "for sale" ad didnt you!?

Yes, I have seen your ad, but at the moment I'm still exploring my options. I want to take my time to make a deliberate choice and avoid disappointment later on. After all we are talking about a lot of money.

[Scubysnaps 9]

I had an Ikelite for a Canon G9 and I flooded it, when I got my Aquatica I realised the good thing about the matt black surface where the o ring is, is that it is very easy to see any debris on the O ring, whereas with the ikelite's clear plastic, things dont stand out.

 

This is not an opinion, fact...my other comments may be tho!

[john70490 3]

This is not an opinion, fact...my other comments may be tho!

 

Nobody questioned the fact that you flooded your Ikelite housing but it does sound as though it may have been due to carelssness/user error. Your statement that it's harder to see debris on the main o-ring in Ikelite housings is a matter of opinion though. You think it is harder, I don't, at least not compared to Sea & Sea housings (I've had three)

Edited February 18, 2011 by john70490

[tdpriest 115]

Ikelite don't make tailored housings: they have a number of housing boxes that are then adapted to individual cameras by adjusting the control linkages. I have seen leaks, but from fatigue in the port joints rather than the o-ring, which seems to be the most common problem.

 

Curiously, acrylic housings end up heavier than aluminium ones because their natural bouyancy has to be offset by thicker walls and trim weights. Acrylic domes, however, are much less heavy than glass ones.

 

I have found that aluminium housings are much more comfortable to hold than Ike's housings, mostly because the controls are better sited. In some ways this is the most important thing about any housing.

 

Tim

 

[john70490 3]

Ikelite don't make tailored housings: they have a number of housing boxes that are then adapted to individual cameras by adjusting the control linkages. I have seen leaks, but from fatigue in the port joints rather than the o-ring, which seems to be the most common problem.

 

Curiously, acrylic housings end up heavier than aluminium ones because their natural bouyancy has to be offset by thicker walls and trim weights. Acrylic domes, however, are much less heavy than glass ones.

 

I have found that aluminium housings are much more comfortable to hold than Ike's housings, mostly because the controls are better sited. In some ways this is the most important thing about any housing.

 

Tim

 

 

There's no doubt that there are housings that have better ergonomics than Ikelite's but that's not what we're discussing here. While I would not have bought my Ikelite housing if I'd believed it was more prone to leak than the Sea & Sea housings I've owned previously, I can live with the poorly designed shutter release lever, for example, and the fact that the buttons are not marked, so that I have to remember what each button does (it's easy to see the camera's buttons through the housing on land but much harder under water). I can't honestly say that the housing is less comfortable to hold than my Sea & Sea housings were, though.

The difference in weight between the Ikelite housing and the Aquatica housing for the D90 is less than 1 lb, so it's hardly a decisive factor.

Edited February 18, 2011 by john70490

[Scubysnaps 9]

Not true! Ikelite housings are specifically moulded to fit the camera, just as aluminium housings are specifically machined. If they weren't, they'd all be the same size.

There's no doubt Aquatica make excellent housings and yours may be a bargain but I'd be willing to bet I could get a used Ikelite housing for less than half of what you are asking for your housing.

Sorry dont wanna argue, but youre statements are completely untrue, Why are Ikelites cheaper?....fact, beacuse they take less effort to make, beacuse they cut cornersand use cheaper materials, I doubt its because theyre loyal to their customers!? They make an affordable hosuings to the ex compact users...the majority move on...especially as we have more affordable housings like Aquatica and Nauticam at a fraction more.

[derway 2]

Ive had 3 ike housings for 2 decades total. Never flooded any of them.

 

I had an n90s and all kinds of ports. Never a problem. And that was when they only had 2 port locks.

 

I had a canon g3 housing. No sweat.

 

Sony V3, same deal.

 

The great beauty of the ikelite design is the ability to see the sealing surfaces AFTER assembly. So you know everything is seated properly, and nothing extruding, no gaps, etc.

 

I'd be a nervous wreck putting together an opaque housing. Every time I assembled it, I'd want to leak test it before putting in the camera. I have NO such fears with the brilliantly clear ikelite approach.

[john70490 3]

Why are Ikelites cheaper?....fact, beacuse they take less effort to make, beacuse they cut corners and use cheaper materials, I doubt its because theyre loyal to their customers!? They make an affordable hosuings to the ex compact users...the majority move on...especially as we have more affordable housings like Aquatica and Nauticam at a fraction more.

 

Of course Ikleite housings are cheaper to produce. I never said otherwise and I'm old and wise enough to know that very few commercial concerns are charitable organisations. The point at issue was whether Ikelite's housings are more likely to leak and I see nothing to support that claim and no reason why they should be. And I cannot agree that Aquatica and Nauticam housings only cost a fraction more. I would also point out that by no means all Ikelite owners "move on". I personally know two very good underwater photographers, one semipro and the other an accomplished amateur, who happily use Ikelite housings because they prefer to invest their money in the best lenses and the latest camera model in the certainty that they will be selling the camera and housing they buy today at a substantial loss within two years.

Edited February 18, 2011 by john70490

[Scubysnaps 9]

so if i bought an ikelite for my d7000, and hated it compared to my aquatica ad90, would you put your money where your fingers are and buy it off me if i hated it!?

[john70490 3]

so if i bought an ikelite for my d7000, and hated it compared to my aquatica ad90, would you put your money where your fingers are and buy it off me if i hated it!?

 

Sorry, no! Because I have a D80, am perfectly happy with it and don't plan to buy another camera and housing as, having reached the ripe old age of 72, my career as a diver presumably won't last for many more years

[Scubysnaps 9]

Sorry, no! Because I have a D80, am perfectly happy with it and don't plan to buy another camera and housing as, having reached the ripe old age of 72, my career as a diver presumably won't last for many more years

 

 

There we go

 

 

I'm pefectly happy with my D90 too, just have the plan to upgrade as the successors come out yearly...people do it with their cars why cant I do it witrh my cameras and housings?