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sufur

how much of a difference with quality lights

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Im planning to get a housing soon for my canon HF G10. Right now im leaning toward the L&M. But as far as the lights go is it worth getting the higher end lights like the Keldan's? Would i see much of a difference between say Sola 1200's or even 4000's and the keldan luna cri? Im trying to figure out here if its worth the difference in price?

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I have the L&M 2000x, absolutely love them.

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Depends on what your use is. CRI only matters if you can see the difference, and many times it takes the uninitiated a vectorscope to see the difference. I'd say if HID lights, which were the rage earlier, made many people happy just a few years back, then LED CRI of 70-80+ will do the same.

I suggest you read my primer on video lights to understand some of the concepts as I think you have CRI and lumens mixed up.

For wide angle, even 12k lumens may not be enough sometimes, depending on the distance from the lens.

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Drew,

Yes, too many are overemphasizing lumens as the be all/ end all. Just not true. However, a CRI rating of 70-80 is not really very good as color rendering at that low level is not much. A good CRI for a light would be a rating of 90+. One also must consider that a low powered light can have a good CRI rating but still not do much for the footage. Therefore, a light should have a kelvin of between 5,000-6,000 with a high Ra of 90+ and then you have a decent light.

 

When I was using the Keldan's which have a diffused spread of 90º, there were other divers in the water with the Solas( with a 60º spread) and one with the higher end Green Force lights. The Keldan not only had a cleaner light but had a much wider spread and further throw, which created a considerably larger stage to shoot from.

Steve

 

PS. Gates will soon be coming out with their new lights as well.

Edited by Steve Douglas

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im not really worried about lumens. im just wondering will there be a noticeable difference between lights like the keldans or the new gates with cheaper lights like the sola's or maybe something from nocturnal. a difference that would justify the added cost. especially considering the camera is not super high end. or would high end lights like that be lost on a newb with canon hf g10.

Edited by sufur

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PS. Gates will soon be coming out with their new lights as well.

I actually think they are out, they are on the Gates website and also on Backscatters with prices. I have seen a couple of pictures of guys using them also.

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Sulfur,

It isn't easy making a recommendation for an inexpensive light. Any light worth having is costly. I haven't used them underwater, but I am sure that the Gates light will be top notch and you pay for that quality. Nocturnal Lights is the distributer for Keldan but they do have their own lights which are pretty darn good and not too costly.

Steve

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im not really worried about lumens. im just wondering will there be a noticeable difference between lights like the keldans or the new gates with cheaper lights like the sola's or maybe something from nocturnal. a difference that would justify the added cost. especially considering the camera is not super high end. or would high end lights like that be lost on a newb with canon hf g10.

 

I think you answered yourself right there. Many people have enjoyed HID lights, which has about the same/lower CRI as the cheaper LED systems, for years. If you are not a professional shooting for broadcast, or want that sort of quality, then it's really not an issue. Buy what you can afford. High CRI is always nice but only at the correct color temp. Remember distance to subject underwater plays a part in how the light works. If you are just a hobbyist doing videos for fun, and the budget is limited, go with what you can comfortably afford and upgrade later if you feel it's inadequate.

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i think for me it makes sense to start off on something cheaper more low end simply because if i jumped right into a high end light id have nothing to compare to. and i maybe the canon hf g10 might not be able to pick up on the subtle differences in color.

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and i maybe the canon hf g10 might not be able to pick up on the subtle differences in color.

Oh the camera will pick up the difference, the point is whether you do or even care about the difference that counts.

Many times, buying (not having it given to you for a review/ gift etc) the top of the line gear is less abut functionality than something psychological. It's like Ferrari owners. Only a small percentage of owners even bother to learn how to drive it llike a sports car and an even smaller % actually can drive it well.

Darn I used a car analogy!

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i cant drive but i want the ferrari!!!!. sooo which light is the ferrari???? heh i was actually leaning towards the solas cause of price but i dont like the fact that you cant remove the battery. of course the removable batteries in the gates and the keldans are quite large and quite expensive. so not sure if it would be feasible to travel with an additional set anyways.

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i cant drive but i want the ferrari!!!!. sooo which light is the ferrari???? heh i was actually leaning towards the solas cause of price but i dont like the fact that you cant remove the battery. of course the removable batteries in the gates and the keldans are quite large and quite expensive. so not sure if it would be feasible to travel with an additional set anyways.

You should also consider the new fisheye Aquavolt 5000. Its available in beginning of august: http://www.fisheye-jp.com/english/products...5000/index.html

 

Lasse

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was just looking pretty hard at the gates vl8. the price seemed pretty good. But wow are they heavy. 3.1 lbs.

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was just looking pretty hard at the gates vl8. the price seemed pretty good. But wow are they heavy. 3.1 lbs.

 

But neutral underwater.

 

Some of the lights out there are 1 pound negative or more. Having a light that negative sitting out extended on arms can't be easy to shoot with.

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well decided to go with the gates vl8. hopefully will have them soon and have a chance to try them out before my trip in november. would still like to see a review on them to see how they stack up to the competition.

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I saw those new gates lights in action a while back, very nice lights! Very powerful and nice wide beam. I want them too :dance:

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I saw those new gates lights in action a while back, very nice lights! Very powerful and nice wide beam. I want them too :dance:

 

were they the vl8's or the wl24's you saw?

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the 24s, one of my guests had a demo set. Really bright!

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i posted some clips using this setup with t he gates VL-8's. it got moved to the editing,posting, and sharing forum. the lights are bright but they dont go very far at all. really dont see anything until your witin a few feet of target. didnt get a chance to try them at night.

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i posted some clips using this setup with t he gates VL-8's. it got moved to the editing,posting, and sharing forum. the lights are bright but they dont go very far at all. really dont see anything until your witin a few feet of target. didnt get a chance to try them at night.

 

When designing these lights, we asked the question "What's the perfect beam angle?" There is an obvious trade off between a wide beam / shallow light penetration and narrow beam / deeper penetration (it's not a linear relationship). The end result: 78° actual underwater. And this is the Effective Beam Angle -- that is, 78° marks one full stop difference in light from center to edge. The light is distributed very evenly in between. This seems to be a sweet spot for video lighting -- not too wide, not too narrow.

 

And it's important to note that this measuring technique comes from LMI. We have discussed and hope to develop standardized testing to provide an 'apples-to-apples' comparison of underwater video lighting.

 

J-

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Hey John,

Very interested in your interest in a standardized testing method. How do you propose to create one and what would be the factors involved? There is the angle of light spread, color rendering index and light penetration to consider but what other things factor in? If this is something you develop, how then would it be adopted by other companies as a legit measure to go by. I would also like to learn how you came to the conclusion that 78º is better than, say, 65º or 90º. Very interested in how your R & D on this created your final results. I'm always learning something.

Steve

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Hey John,

Very interested in your interest in a standardized testing method. How do you propose to create one and what would be the factors involved? There is the angle of light spread, color rendering index and light penetration to consider but what other things factor in? If this is something you develop, how then would it be adopted by other companies as a legit measure to go by. I would also like to learn how you came to the conclusion that 78º is better than, say, 65º or 90º. Very interested in how your R & D on this created your final results. I'm always learning something.

Steve

 

The most important aspects are a) light output b) evenly distributed c) over a defined beam angle. Once a standard is developed and published, participation by other companies will be voluntary. However, LMI has already started testing many other lights for comparison, and it's quite revealing. http://www.uwimaging.com/sola1200v.html.

J-

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Yes, I have seen that comparison on their site before but since specific models of the 'other' brands are not listed, you really don't know which light they are comparing. While I have never personally used the Green Force lights, I have seen them in use and their spread is certainly wider than what I see there. Will be very interested in what your company comes up with. Is there a timeline projection for this to come out? Thanks

Steve

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