Nikon D4 Video

[loftus 42]

Some very cool video samples with the Nikon D4 starting to show up.Even some brief underwater clips in the kayak shots. (Wonder if it's in a D3 housing or just something simpler)

As someone just learning about video I'd like to hear what the experts have to say about how good / bad these are and why. Also in reading dpreview and Nikon's press releases, the clean uncompressed HDMI video feed to external devices seems to be a potential advantage for Nikon vs Canon, with no limit on video time in this mode apparently and quality benefits. Is this similar to RAW video?

Also some interesting crop options for increased lens and depth of field options.

 

[vimeohd]34666308[/vimeohd]

 

 

[vimeohd]34720376[/vimeohd]

 

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/779991463...on-d4-overview/

Edited January 9, 2012 by loftus

[jonny shaw 16]

Also in reading dpreview and Nikon's press releases, the clean uncompressed HDMI video feed to external devices seems to be a potential advantage for Nikon vs Canon, with no limit on video time in this mode apparently and quality benefits. Is this similar to RAW video?

]

 

No it's not the same, it means that you can pull a full HD 1920x1080 signal from the HDMI output. One of the biggest gripes from Canon users is the fact that the HDMI out is not a full res output. What this means for the D4 is that you can buy an additional capture device like the Atomos ninja and then capture full HD footage with full colour space (better for colour grading). However this is is not the same as RAW, the only cameras that can capture in RAW are RED, Arri Alexa and I think a camera called Weisscam, raw allows even more latitude when colour grading or composting.

 

Looks like a fantastic camera

[loftus 42]

Thanks; why is it that recording time can be extended indefinitely with the clean HDMI output vs the 29 min in camera? Does Canon limit the HDMI to protect their video cam market?

[jonny shaw 16]

Sorry just looking at the specs uncompressed is not defined so it will be interesting to see what it is exactly outputting through HDMI, I think initial rumours are 1080i not 1080p which would be a little disappointing but nothing is confirmed as yet.

 

The time limit on Canon cameras is due to the fact that the CF cards are formatted as FAT32 which means max file size is around 4gb. Unsure why the Nikon would limit at 29 mins but to be honest that is pretty long.

[Davide DB 492]

Sorry just looking at the specs uncompressed is not defined so it will be interesting to see what it is exactly outputting through HDMI, I think initial rumours are 1080i not 1080p which would be a little disappointing but nothing is confirmed as yet.

 

The time limit on Canon cameras is due to the fact that the CF cards are formatted as FAT32 which means max file size is around 4gb. Unsure why the Nikon would limit at 29 mins but to be honest that is pretty long.

 

The limitation to a maximum of 29 minutes on many cameras have customs-technical reasons: The EU classifies devices with recording time over 30 minutes as video cameras so the 4.9% import tariff has to be charged. Cameras with a shorter recording time are instead mainly as still cameras are duty free. With the limitation to less than 30 minutes, the Manufacturer can offer their cameras in the EU, therefore a little cheaper.

 

In fact on my Panny GH2 the 30' limit is only on the PAL version, not on the NTSC version (of course with the VK hack this limit is removed). This limit is very common in EU countries.

For the same stupid reason only the top level camera has the FW-in enabled. Hving this they are classified as recording device and an extra tax is applied.

On the Panny GH2 the HDMI output is 1080i and it was (still it is) a topic of huge debate. Right now can be used only for an external monitor.

 

Bye

[Drew 0]

No it's not the same, it means that you can pull a full HD 1920x1080 signal from the HDMI output. One of the biggest gripes from Canon users is the fact that the HDMI out is not a full res output. What this means for the D4 is that you can buy an additional capture device like the Atomos ninja and then capture full HD footage with full colour space (better for colour grading). However this is is not the same as RAW, the only cameras that can capture in RAW are RED, Arri Alexa and I think a camera called Weisscam, raw allows even more latitude when colour grading or composting.

 

I played with a prototype and we connected it to a Ninja. It's 8 bit 422 1080p24 or 29.97 but HDMI is 1080i so it's really PsF, which is very nice, I haven't downloaded it since I'm behind on stuff but will do so on the weekend. Will also have to check if I'm allowed to post publicly yet. Skin tones are very nice like the 5D2 but a bit more Nikon saturation. I'd like a Marvell or Cinestyle pic profile to play with (or even LUT) but hey that's just being nit picky.

 

Nikon has done a fantastic job with the video side, which is surprising but they needed this badly lest they disappear from the DSLR market. This video on the cards is a little soft but it still puts big pressure on Canon to go with clean HDMI signal. The stills side specs are 2mp and 2fps less against the 1Dx for minor noise performance (I suspect the noise reduction engine in video will give a nice stop advantage) is more about needs than "better" or "worse." I suspect the D4 will get into the cinematography market more. I'm still no convinced about telephoto though since the teles from Nikon focus breathe significantly more than Canon equivalents. My experience with the 70-200 2.8s was pretty surprising. Minor or insignificant quibble for most though.

 

Jonny, don't forget the little Ikonoskop, the real uncompressed RAW output. It's too bad the sensor is noisy and the specs dropped to 30fps.

[loftus 42]

2mp and 2fps less against the 1Dx for minor noise performance

Apparently though the Nikon buffer allows 2-3 x more images during burst shooting - 75-100 vs 25-30

What's PsF?

Edited January 10, 2012 by loftus

[Tom_Kline 141]

Drew you seem to be giving the D4 a tentative nod of approval. The Mk1 70-200 VR has less breathing and has higher MTF in the center of the field so may be better for some apps. The 2.7 crop mode makes a 70-200 a super-tele zoom for MP, good for some wildlife?

 

My main concern is the apparently wimpy battery esp having the camera powered up for LV for long periods of time, e.g., > 12hours. Could be useful for MP as well as remote control but not if the batt dies in just a of couple hours (also at low ambient temps, 40F/5C).

[loftus 42]

My main concern is the apparently wimpy battery esp having the camera powered up for LV for long periods of time, e.g., > 12hours. Could be useful for MP as well as remote control but not if the batt dies in just a of couple hours (also at low ambient temps, 40F/5C).

Apparently the battery change is due to Japanese regs on batteries

[Tom_Kline 141]

Apparently the battery change is due to Japanese regs on batteries

The 1Dx batt has greater AH, the regulation bit may be just a red herring.

[Drew 0]

Apparently though the Nikon buffer allows 2-3 x more images during burst shooting - 75-100 vs 25-30

What's PsF?

Progressive Segment Frame. Progressive frame segmented into interlaced signal. I don't think the 1Dx specs have been finalized yet. UDMA 7 could give up to 40 frames. Obviously I'd prefer 60fps at 5k vs 12fps at 18mp (approx 5.1k) since the chances of getting the frame that works for things like sport/nature is much higher. Ultimately it's lower resolution and smaller frame size but who cares if I get the shot I want. Plus I have the choice of doing slow motion presentation!

 

 

Drew you seem to be giving the D4 a tentative nod of approval. The Mk1 70-200 VR has less breathing and has higher MTF in the center of the field so may be better for some apps. The 2.7 crop mode makes a 70-200 a super-tele zoom for MP, good for some wildlife?

 

My main concern is the apparently wimpy battery esp having the camera powered up for LV for long periods of time, e.g., > 12hours. Could be useful for MP as well as remote control but not if the batt dies in just a of couple hours (also at low ambient temps, 40F/5C).

 

Who cares what I think? Any camera works for the job one needs it for.

 

The Mk I had crappy corners for FX @ f2.8 since it was optimized for DX. Not as obvious for video mode but one can still see it if you look for it. Plus what are you going to do? Have Mk I for video and MkII for stills?

All SLR lenses will breathe, it's a matter of degree and if that's integral to the shot. One good way of dealing with it is to stop racking focus or change lenses between shots!

[Tom_Kline 141]

Since I know nothing of video your opinion is of value. I have never owned a video camera -- my knowledge is close to zero.

What if one already owns a 70-200 Mk1 as in my case. 200 is a bit short for FF so would not buy the update. Although an f/4 70-200 lens might work as a walk around lens.

 

Progressive Segment Frame. Progressive frame segmented into interlaced signal. I don't think the 1Dx specs have been finalized yet. UDMA 7 could give up to 40 frames. Obviously I'd prefer 60fps at 5k vs 12fps at 18mp (approx 5.1k) since the chances of getting the frame that works for things like sport/nature is much higher. Ultimately it's lower resolution and smaller frame size but who cares if I get the shot I want. Plus I have the choice of doing slow motion presentation!

 

 

 

 

Who cares what I think? Any camera works for the job one needs it for.

 

The Mk I had crappy corners for FX @ f2.8 since it was optimized for DX. Not as obvious for video mode but one can still see it if you look for it. Plus what are you going to do? Have Mk I for video and MkII for stills?

All SLR lenses will breathe, it's a matter of degree and if that's integral to the shot. One good way of dealing with it is to stop racking focus or change lenses between shots!

[loftus 42]

Since I know nothing of video your opinion is of value. I have never owned a video camera -- my knowledge is close to zero.

What if one already owns a 70-200 Mk1 as in my case. 200 is a bit short for FF so would not buy the update. Although an f/4 70-200 lens might work as a walk around lens.

Despite the breathing issue which has not been a concern for me; I have found the MkII to be a spectacular lens for wildlife on my D700. I also found the quality with the newest 2x Nikon tele convertor to be outstanding.

[Tom_Kline 141]

Despite the breathing issue which has not been a concern for me; I have found the MkII to be a spectacular lens for wildlife on my D700. I also found the quality with the newest 2x Nikon tele convertor to be outstanding.

 

A 400/2.8 MF with and w/o TC is my wildlife go-to lens. However I have a few shots with the 70-200 Vr1 of small birds about at the min focus dist @200mm on DX. I have had dippers come real close while shooting salmon. One even perched on of my boot toes for a few seconds in November (did not have a topside cam with me, it was darkish too) while was sitting.

 

While looking for a dipper shot I found this on my HD. This is one of the few times I walked away from an UW rig to shoot wildlife. This one was behind me making some noise while eating so I turned around and saw it. Had to go across creek to pack with D70 (camera now dead) with 70-200 that I had along just in case. Used the pop-up flash as it was darkish

Edited January 10, 2012 by Tom_Kline

[Drew 0]

Since I know nothing of video your opinion is of value. I have never owned a video camera -- my knowledge is close to zero.

What if one already owns a 70-200 Mk1 as in my case. 200 is a bit short for FF so would not buy the update. Although an f/4 70-200 lens might work as a walk around lens.

 

Tom, I don't know what you are shooting besides salmon , but 422 8 bit uncompressed will just look incrementally better but unless you are doing efx/serious grading and projecting on large screens, it's probably not to be significant enough for the layperson to say wow what a difference between the Turin shroud and the real deal!

 

The D4 is only great because of the clean HDMI signal. I doubt there'll be that much improvement in noise performance except in the higher ISO where it may be as useable @ 25600 like the 1Dx, which looked adequate @ 51200. I haven't seen many pictures from the 1Dx so it's premature to judge especially when specs aren't finalized.

 

The 1Dx is an incremental upgrade from the 1D4 while the D4 is a bigger step up from the D3s. UDMA 7 will be probably as fast as XQD but it's really about the readers and the camera's ability to write as fast as the cards.

[Tom_Kline 141]

Thanks for the info. I do shoot mostly salmon as that is also what I am selling. Potentially I could sell clips of salmon, these would be shot at very high ISO as I am typically in dusk-like conditions. I am very interested in reading reports that compare the AF of the 1Dx and D4 (I shoot both systems). AF is the one form of automation that I depend on to get my shots. I shoot manual camera exposure and strobes for the most part.

I know what you mean about card readers. I have matched CF and SD card types and the CF cards upload twice as fast. We need to see the PDQ (my nickname) card lineups from the various companies. I don't like being an early adopter recalling the $10 price per 3.5" floppy in the early 80's. Interesting that Nikon is pushing a Sony product here, mmmmmm.

 

Tom, I don't know what you are shooting besides salmon , but 422 8 bit uncompressed will just look incrementally better but unless you are doing efx/serious grading and projecting on large screens, it's probably not to be significant enough for the layperson to say wow what a difference between the Turin shroud and the real deal!

 

The D4 is only great because of the clean HDMI signal. I doubt there'll be that much improvement in noise performance except in the higher ISO where it may be as useable @ 25600 like the 1Dx, which looked adequate @ 51200. I haven't seen many pictures from the 1Dx so it's premature to judge especially when specs aren't finalized.

 

The 1Dx is an incremental upgrade from the 1D4 while the D4 is a bigger step up from the D3s. UDMA 7 will be probably as fast as XQD but it's really about the readers and the camera's ability to write as fast as the cards.

[Drew 0]

Well the sensor is from Sony. For Sony to allow Nikon to go nuts on video, there had to be some benefit. XQD is probably the best way to push a product since the A series didn't have it. If you want to use AF in video, I'm afraid you are going to be VERY disappointed with DSLR systems. Contrast AF is iffy at best, especially in a busy scene.

[loftus 42]

Thanks for the info. I do shoot mostly salmon as that is also what I am selling. Potentially I could sell clips of salmon, these would be shot at very high ISO as I am typically in dusk-like conditions. I am very interested in reading reports that compare the AF of the 1Dx and D4 (I shoot both systems). AF is the one form of automation that I depend on to get my shots. I shoot manual camera exposure and strobes for the most part.

I know what you mean about card readers. I have matched CF and SD card types and the CF cards upload twice as fast. We need to see the PDQ (my nickname) card lineups from the various companies. I don't like being an early adopter recalling the $10 price per 3.5" floppy in the early 80's. Interesting that Nikon is pushing a Sony product here, mmmmmm.

Probably not good enough for a purist like Drew, but I've been pretty impressed with the ability of my Nikon V1 to track focus in video. Wonder if the face tracking in the D4 will work on Salmon.

At least from the reviews the D4 will also provide fairly extensive remote control and viewing options even using an iPad. Except for setting focus at hyper focal distance, what other options would you have shooting video remotely Drew?

Edited January 10, 2012 by loftus

[Tom_Kline 141]

If you want to use AF in video, I'm afraid you are going to be VERY disappointed with DSLR systems. Contrast AF is iffy at best, especially in a busy scene.

 

 

Looks like a good reason to wait for the D5. BTW and OT but I am playing with LR4 here at the airport and noticed that manual CA correction is gone. Newer is not necessarily better.

[loftus 42]

Looks like this allows you to track and set focus points just with the iPad touch screen

[jonny shaw 16]

I played with a prototype and we connected it to a Ninja. It's 8 bit 422 1080p24 or 29.97 but HDMI is 1080i so it's really PsF, which is very nice,

Jonny, don't forget the little Ikonoskop, the real uncompressed RAW output. It's too bad the sensor is noisy and the specs dropped to 30fps.

 

That is pretty good actually, would be more than ample for 99% of people.

 

I did forget about the Ikonoskop, I wonder how many they have sold? It has a S16 chip which I'm sure doesn't help the low light and noise, was really small and compact though.

[Drew 0]

The AII was a great concept at 120fps but @ 30fps became a disappointment. I'd ordered one based on the old specs but cancelled when they changed it.

 

AF will always be an iffy proposition for critical focus since you can't tell where it's going to go. Ever watch a movie where the focus searches and shifts? Red allows the same touch screen focus point, but it's slow. I don't expect Nikon to be any better. For Tom's application, I think UWA at deep DOF is best and most practical.

[loftus 42]

AF will always be an iffy proposition for critical focus since you can't tell where it's going to go.

Find it difficult to believe that word 'always' even from an experienced guy like yourself. I think it's just a matter of technology improving, and the feedback mechanism involved with focus tracking and lens response. Just observing the improvement from the D7000 to the V1 one can see the improvement in video focus tracking technology. (No idea about other brands)I think each iteration of of camera technology will continue to improve on this, and particularly with the ability to manually override the tracking point on the fly.

I'm old enough to remember when I interned with photographers in high school and college to remember how still camera autoexposure and autofocus would never work.

Edited January 11, 2012 by loftus

[Drew 0]

Jeff, underwater is totally different from topside. Particulates in the water, background change, other fish in foreground swimming by etc etc. Contrast AF is fine if you have one subject in a neutral background. Even if you use off camera focus, it'll be slow and also depends on the contrast available on the point you touch.

Tell you what, when you are in a baitball or with dolphins this year, you go ahead and use AF and let me know the results And I'll even let you use face detection

[loftus 42]

Jeff, underwater is totally different from topside. Particulates in the water, background change, other fish in foreground swimming by etc etc. Contrast AF is fine if you have one subject in a neutral background. Even if you use off camera focus, it'll be slow and also depends on the contrast available on the point you touch.

Tell you what, when you are in a baitball or with dolphins this year, you go ahead and use AF and let me know the results And I'll even let you use face detection

When the D8 comes out you will eat your words.