Housing buttons that stick

[jcclink 8]

Komodo is generally pretty clean water. Try muck diving the rig for several days & see how it does. It's the fine sediment that usually causes buttons to stick. Hopefully all will still be ok.

[Oceanshutter 121]

I was thinking that mucky water might be the culprit. The 3 previous places that I have had issues were lembeh, anilao, and Bonaire. Bonaire isn't mucky but the sand from the shore diving can do a number on it. Hopefully it continues to work. I figure with the holes for the buttons drilled a little larger, which was ikelites suggestion, it gives more room for the tiny particle to get out of the button easier. And with the stiffer spring if it does get caught has more resistance to bounce back out. Crossing my fingers....

 

Dustin

 

[Neptune 0]

Hi, I have been diving Ikelite housings now for about 4 years in Ireland, cold sea water, often low visibility (<5 feet), but up to 100 feet too, and for the first time am encountering sticky buttons which cost me a couple of dives.

Just spoke to the folks in Ikelite who will ship a maintenance kit for $20 with 15 sets of springs, o-rings, grease and c-clips as well as the tool to remove the old c-clips (which should be discarded) and fit the new ones. It is my responsibility to clean the shafts properly, which I can do because I have access to an ultrasonic cleaning bath.

I have been bringing a pliers with me on dives, and have used them once to pull up a sticky button, but I do not like to do this, I would rather solve the problem. Looking forward to receiving it.

Brian

[T.Reid 3]

After remembering I posted this a while back, I thought I would give an update.

 

I wrote an email to Ikelite complaining about the buttons sticking, and the fact that it has done the same thing with 3 different housings I have owned, all Ikelite. I wrote this email after a trip to Lembeh, where just 3 weeks earlier, I sent the housing in for service to Ikelite. They replaced all buttons and springs Thinking that maybe I wasn't doing a good enough job rinsing and pushing the buttons. Well, during the lembeh trip, I was very aware to work the buttons in the rinse tank. Well.....They still stuck occasionally. Not as bad as before....But still very frustrating, considering I just had it in for service.

 

My email was responded to from Ikelite, as I suggested possibly a stiffer spring. Jean from Ikelite, said he didn't think that was the problem, as their springs were the right tension for shallow and deeper depths. We came up with an alternative solution to drill out a slightly wider hole for the buttons. Suggesting that the particles in the water/sand, were not able to get flushed back out. So the larger holes should help that. So I sent my housing back in for them to do this.

 

I got the housing back, and the buttons seem stiffer. I was under the impression they didn't change the springs, but comparing to my wifes housing, they are harder to push in. They also feel differently because of the hole size difference. I haven't taken it on a trip yet....I am leaving for Komodo in a week, so I should get a good test there. I will post, what happens.

 

I really hope this works. I like Ikelite, and this is really my only issue with them. They have great stobes, service dept and customer service. And for me, only going on 2 dive trips a year, it is hard to justify spending double the price, when the video/pictures, are the same as with the more expensive housings. But I also expect the system to work, especially if I maintain it.

 

Dustin

 

 

This is almost what I need done to mine, I've got a sony a7 housing from ikelite doing the same issue but there refusing to acknowledge the issue ! Will send a screen shot of your post's to them.

 

What did they charge for this service as it's happening to my housing which is brand new !

 

Thanks,

Trent

[okuma 64]

Has anyone tried a rinse in de ionized water upon returning home?

[TimG 62]

Has anyone tried a rinse in de ionized water upon returning home?

 

Hey!

 

Yeah, I tried it when I got back from a dive trip earlier this year.

 

I left my housing sitting in a bucket of "demineralised" water for, must have been, about 2 weeks. I can't say I noticed any difference from my usual "rinse in tap water" routine. The usual salt marks remained on the ULCS base plates (where the screws go into the housing proper) and it didn't seem any "cleaner", brighter or better. It even had no impact on my photos. Dammit.

 

It did no harm but I'm not sure I'd bother using it again. It cost maybe €5 for enough to cover the housing so I only had to turn it over once or twice a day. Water seemed just as good.

 

I have used white vinegar once in a while for localised salt removal or to clean out screw holes. That works reasonably well and if you soak, say, cotton wool, in it, you can sit the soaked cotton wool on the area that needs cleaning thus not spreading acidic vinegar all over the place.

 

(Hope you are in top form and life is good!)

[divegypsy 21]

I have several Subal housings for the Nikon D800 and the buttons that you use to move the auto-focus point around the focusing screen stick frequently, particularly at deeper depths. I have disassembled the push-buttons completely to re-lube them with o-ring grease. I have tried spraying in the liquid silicon made by 500 PSI and pushing the buttons to help the silicone work down to the o-ring.. And they still stick sometimes. Especially the push button that is at the "3-o'clock" position in the group of five push buttons that move the focus point around the image area. I am "religious" about rinsing my housing in freshwater as soon as possible after a dive and pushing all the buttons repeatedly in the freshwater rinse to displace any salt water that might be deep in the push-button's "hole".

 

I have a friend, Don, who sent his housing, also a Subal D800 housing, back to Subal in Austria to have it serviced in hopes of curing his button-sticking problems. The cost of shipping the housing to Subal and back cost him several hundred dollars. The servicing made no difference and the buttons still got stuck frequently. Eventually, after more complaints, Subal sent Don new springs that Subal said were stronger and should cure the sticking. Don says that the buttons with the new springs stick less, but still get stuck often enough to be a nuisance. Shortly after I got my Subal housings I saw other divers posting that the buttons on their Subal housings had sticking problems. But I never saw anyone post a solution to the problem.

 

On my last trip to Bali, a month ago, the "3-o'clock" button on the housing I use with my macro lens got stuck repeatedly again. Once in water only four meters deep. I really like the Subal housings, but the sticking buttons have caused me to miss shots. This problem will make me think long and hard before I buy another Subal housing. Despite its high cost, I feel that the Subal housing is not really "professional" quality due to its sticking buttons.

 

Fred

Edited December 14, 2016 by divegypsy

[eyu 27]

I initially had issues with some of the buttons on my ND800 housing too. It was the 3 o'clock button.

I think part of the problem is the length of the linkage with loss of the mechanical advantage with the 3 o'clock button causing one to push the button in more.

I sent the housing back to Reef Photo with my primary body and they put some stiffer springs in.

Now all is perfect. I am very pleased with my Subal, love the ergonomics.

 

Elmer

[T.Reid 3]

This is the thing, I read of so many people with housings with sticky buttons and issues yet not many fixes... It seems like people just give up and learn to not use buttons or features on their camera's and the manufactures should be doing a better effort to look after their customers!!

 

I'm hoping ikelite will send me out some sort of stronger springs or something I'm trying to source some on my own as well as at the moment ikelite is trying to tell me its a user error and maintenance issue (on a housing 2 weeks old!!) and that they have never heard of people having issues with buttons sticking with one of their most popular sold housings.

 

Comment's back like that from ikelite make me never want to buy or recommend their products to anyone ever again, they damn right know there is button issues with their housings, don't try and pull the wool over my eyes!

[divegypsy 21]

Elmer,

 

Thanks for telling me that you were able to get stiffer springs that seem to have helped cure your sticking button problem. It was interesting that it was the "3-o'clock" button that gave you the most trouble, too. When I get home from my current travels, I'll contact Reef Photo and ask if I can buy a few of those stronger springs.

 

Like you, I'm satisfied with my Subal housing otherwise. I had changed to Subal from Seacam due to Seacam's total lack of controls to use some of the D800 features that I wanted access to. Such as the preview and function buttons. And that Seacam's control for the flash compensation button was virtually unusable when the housing is held at eye level where you can see through the viewfinder. Since migrating to Subal I've incorporated components from other companies to suit my own preferences and the way I like to shoot - Ikelite hand grips, Nauticam viewfinders, and a Seacam port mount that allows me to use all the Seacam ports and extension rings that I had acquired during the years I use Seacam housings. Some of the "adaptions" required a bit of creative machine shop fabrication, but the result is what I think of as the best housing I've ever seen or shot with.

 

Fred

Edited December 15, 2016 by divegypsy

[eyu 27]

In regards to our ND800 housings the linkage to the 3 o'clock button is long and the button sticks because it is pushed in too far.

The stronger spring fixed mine, but part of the problem could be the mating of the body to the housing. If the camera body is off just every so slightly one would push the button in too far jamming it. This is why I sent my primary body with housing to Reef Photo to be fitted.

Our housings and our camera bodies very slightly in size, if enough the button or it's linkage will not line up properly to activate the button on the camera body. I think this maybe part of the issue with T. Reid.

My 2 cents,

Elmer

Edited December 16, 2016 by eyu

[TimG 62]

In regards to our ND800 housings the linkage to the 3 o'clock button is long and the button sticks because it is pushed in too far.

The stronger spring fixed mine, but part of the problem could be the mating of the body to the housing. If the camera body is off just every so slightly one would push the button in too far jamming it. This is why I sent my primary body with housing to Reef Photo to be fitted.

Our housings and our camera bodies very slightly in size, if enough the button or it's linkage will not line up properly to activate the button on the camera body. I think this maybe part of the issue with T. Reid.

My 2 cents,

Elmer

 

Yep, totally agree on the impact of the tiniest out of alignment.

 

I had the same thing when I first got my Subal D800 housing. It was the Preview activator which caused the problem for me. A slight adjustment to the rod (which I was able to do myself) and all was well.

 

Not had the 3 o'clock problem. Phew!

[VladimirM 0]

First of all there is several reasons why camera buttons can stick in the housing. One of them is that camera body is different from time of use, specially joystick on D800, 810 and similar Nikon cameras. Its not the same hardness on camera with 5000 shutter count and with 100 000 shutter count. I personally test this and notice this problem and differences in hardness between camera joystick due time of using . We in Subal test every housing with camera inside and adjust every button after assembly. We also have quality control with several checking in pressure chambers as well. Our cameras in company are used only for checking and they are pretty new with very low shutter count and also not many buttons movement. After adjusting and quality control we can't predict does housing will come to someone with camera with 100 000 shutter count or more and in what conditions camera bodes are.

 

This joystick button is very sensitive and every hardwer changing on the camera body can cause sticking, for example rubber base on the bottom of the camera, if its thiner or damaged can cause not proper alignment on the camera tray and after some buttons, specially joystick can stick.

 

Every issue that we found out from customers and they are not many, we try to solve, and we focus seriously on problem. Subal ND800 housing is 5 years old housing and one of the top product with not so many issues and complaining with sticking or else. I personally use it for 2 years with not any problem. But as I mention, issues with sticking can be solved with new lever inside with wider plastic on it and sticking will stop.

 

For frequently used cameras and soft joysticks we made additional levers inside with wider plastic that press joystick with more surface on it. If someone have this kind of problem we can replace this levers inside and sticking will stop. Also we prefer in this situations that housing be adjusted with the camera from user.

 

For all informations contact your local dealer or Subal directly and we will consider and solve the problem.

Edited December 21, 2016 by VladimirM

[divegypsy 21]

Dear Vladimir,

 

As I have mentioned, I have three ND800 housings, two of which were purchased directly from Subal. Mr. Harold Karl can verify this. He can also verify that I had all three of the backs of my ND800 housings painted black, by Subal, to reduce reflections off the housing back when viewing the LCD screen under high ambient light conditions. Shortly after receiving my housings, I started having problems with sticking buttons, and communicated directly to Mr. Karl about this. I also mentioned to Mr. Karl that I had seen posts on WetPixel by other ND800 users having this same push button problem. I received no response from Subal on this. I use the same D800 camera body in each of my ND800 housings. I take two housings with me on all my trips so that if one is lost by the airlines or in an accident, I do not lose the ability to take underwater pictures. The third housing sits at home ready to replace one that might be lost.

 

I can understand that Subal may not have had very many complaints about the sticking buttons because many users probably go on dive trips only two or three times each year. And if a button sticks, they might logically think it is due to lack of use, and say nothing. But right here you have four ND800 users who have had this problem. Elmer, Tim, myself and my friend Don. This is not an insignificant number.

 

Elmer has said that Reef Photo installed stronger replacement springs into his housing which helped alleviate his problem. Tim had to shorten the internal rod that made contact with his camera button. My friend Don Howie sent his housing back to Subal at considerable expense with no improvement and was eventually sent stronger springs and different washers, which he had to have installed. You also mention replacement arm levers.

 

What do I need to do to acquire some stronger springs (24 stronger springs - eight for each of my three ND800 housings) and three sets of replacement levers with wider contact parts to try to fix the problem. It is only the five push buttons for the auto-focus point selector (which I think you refer to as a joystick?) that I would need new levers for. Shipping my three housings to Subal in Austria is not a reasonable solution as that would cost hundreds of dollars per housing to fix a problem that has existed since the day I received the housings.

 

I have reasonable mechanical skills and have a friend with machine shop tools such as a lathe and milling machine. So installation and adjustment of the new parts should not be a problem if you send clear instructions on how to do it.

 

Please let me know what you and Subal are willing to do to help me solve this problem.

 

Thank you,

 

Fred

Edited December 24, 2016 by divegypsy

[RogerC 4]

Regarding using spray silicone on housings and buttons, 2 issues:

• I've heard that it can cause a problem with lexan housings, it can permanently fog or distort the surface. Not sure if that's true and I can't find any reference on it right now.
• It's too thin and runny. Yeah, that can help it get down the shaft to the oring, but you want a thick grease that stays in place, not a thin runny product that can evaporate. It's like replacing the axle grease on your car's wheel bearings with wd40. It's just not gonna last that long, and it will dissolve the thicker grease if you ever try to go back to the good stuff, so you'll have to clean the thin stuff off if you want to get the thick stuff to stick.

So how do you get the thick grease to migrate on the button shaft and get to the oring? Warm up your housing. Not hot, just warm. Soak it in warm water.

 

I've had a lot of housings over the years. Ikelite, olympus, nauticam, gates, light & motion, sealife... for me a sticky button is just a sign that the button needs service, the lube has worn off. Sounds like a more serious issue for others if it's happening right after a service.

 

When I'm on a trip and need a quick and dirty fix, what I do to service them is to mop some oring lube onto the button shaft on the inside. Warm up the housing, push the button in, and on the inside of the housing, mop some silicon grease onto the shaft and then push the button about a million times until the grease migrates up the shaft onto the oring. I use the edge of a business card to get the lube onto the shaft as close to the hole as possible. I use a lot, I try to build up a fillet of grease all around the hole so the shaft will drag it in as it works. It makes a mess. I clean it up after with a q tip.

 

When I'm home, I just remove the e-clip with a pair of bent needles nose pliers, remove the button and the rings, clean and grease everything, and re-assemble. DO NOT DO THIS THE NIGHT BEFORE A TRIP. DO NOT DO THIS WITHOUT TIME TO GET SPARE E-CLIPS AND ORINGS. YOU WILL LOSE ONE.

 

I CANNOT SAY THIS LOUDLY ENOUGH: YOU WILL ABSOLUTELY LOSE AN E-CLIP EVERY TIME YOU TRY TO DO THIS. DONT DO THIS WITHOUT SPARES ON HAND, OR WITHOUT THE TIME TO ORDER A REPLACEMENT CLIP.

 

These tiny parts jump around and get lost, I don't care how careful you are. The e-clips get bent, sometimes you can bend them back into shape, not always. Some say they should always be replaced. If you are going to try this, you are going to need to have spares on hand. Either order some e-clip and oring kits, or measure what size you need and order a bunch of them. Look on amazon for e-clip kits and oring kits. They have e-clip tools, I've always gotten by with small needle nose and heavy tweezers.

 

McMaster-Carr has a good page (as usual) on e-clips, with dimensions of the clips and shafts, so you can easily figure out which size you need:

 

https://www.mcmaster.com/#e-clips/=15n0fsf

Edited December 26, 2016 by RogerC

[flamebouyant 2]

I would have to agree with @rogerc, i wouldnt use silicon spray for the same reasons he has stated. Havnt tried his trick of heating the housing up etc, but it sounds like it would work.

I think any housing will have a sticking button at some point. Its wear and tear. But of course it shouldnt be happening with a new housing or one thats recently been repaired.

I have replaced quite a few o-rings etc on an aquatica AD7000 housing due to sticking. It was a little daunting at first, but its actually quite simple, and so long as you pressure test it without the camera inside, you shouldnt have too many issues.

Im not an expert, but as i understand it, its not only a silicone or o-ring issue in every cas. The actual shaft itself can wear and this causes friction and hence the sticking. So sometimes the whole button may need changing. But normally removing the piston and replacing the o-ring and adding some grease will do the trick. I used to soak all of the metal components in vinegar for about 30 seconds and rinse them off in fresh water.