Changing setup to a DSLR?

[Davide DB 492]

The linear/log gamma facilities in EDIUS 6 are very effective with HBR mts, if required.

 

Hi, could you explain better your work-flow with the GH2 files in Edius 6?

 

Thanks

[HDVdiver 16]

"Information is the best thing and it's great that the information is available for people to make educated choices...

 

...I won't touch the whole Camera X vs Y: which has better per pixel sharpness question. One shoots RAW 444 and the other 420 compressed. 2 different fields altogether."

 

This is essentially the situation for current decision making for all video cameras, from Scarlet/Epic down. The playing field has leveled so much in the last couple years (thanks to the Canon 5D2 and Vitaliy Kiselev/Ptool) that it's almost a mixed blessing...More choice of affordable DSLR's/Video cams that do a very good job, but more difficulty deciding which system is best for one's particular requirements/priorities.

 

No one camera will do it all...perfectly. Not only camera specs/capability comes into the decision making...ergonomics; weight; available housings/optics/ports/accessories. Some guys I know won't swap their clunker EX1/3 system for a DSLR because they prefer the stability that a big/heavy system offers.

 

The bottom line is that once you have made an informed choice/decision, used it in the field a few times and are personally happy with the results...that's it. There will always be better cameras out in a year or two (and that's a good thing). Meanwhile...if it works for you, just go out and enjoy it. Then comes the more challenging task of developing/refining video shooting technique...

A good videographer will do beautiful work with any of the currently available DSLR's.

 

 

As far as my workflow in Edius 6...it's a basic cookbook/straightforward approach. Nothing fancy...no codec conversions for the timeline material since the i7 Sandybridge is optimized to handle native H.264. Minimum possible gamma/color/WB correction (since I never WB underwater). The only plugin I use is Mercalli.

Edited April 25, 2012 by HDVdiver

[Davide DB 492]

The bottom line is that once you have made an informed choice/decision, used it in the field a few times and are personally happy with the results...that's it. There will always be better cameras out in a year or two (and that's a good thing). Meanwhile...if it works for you, just go out and enjoy it. Then comes the more challenging task of developing/refining video shooting technique...

A good videographer will do beautiful work with any of the currently available DSLR's.

 

Completely agree.

 

Internet would be a better place if only people talked about things it own.

 

As far as my workflow in Edius 6...it's a basic cookbook/straightforward approach. Nothing fancy...no codec conversions for the timeline material since the i7 Sandybridge is optimized to handle native H.264. Minimum possible gamma/color/WB correction (since I never WB underwater). The only plugin I use is Mercalli.

 

Ah, that makes me feel better

I felt strange reading all the strange workflow to load the mts files in some other NLE. I just throw them into the bin.

 

BTW I too have the I7-2600K and Edius uses the hw encoding (Intel Quick Sync).

I was editing a project with a friend of mine: 36' 26" di AVCHD (hacked GH2) converted in BD superfine 35 mbits without QuickSync: 2h e 10 minutes,

With Qick Sync: 30 minutes.

 

Bye

[wagsy 0]

As much as the DLSR cameras put out great footage, you will never be able to nail the same types of shots on a dive that you can with a video camera in a good housing.

 

I really don't know why more people don't use EDIUS.

It slices through just about any native files even all mixed up with each other super easy.

No silly hard drive sapping codecs to convert to for editing ending up with two flies of everything.

Renders out files super fast.

Ivy Bridge CPU just out, Quick Sync should even be faster again.

[SimonSpear 65]

A good videographer will do beautiful work with any of the currently available DSLR's.

 

 

Well said. I recently received my second award for Cinematography from the International Wildlife Film Festival for footage mainly shot on a 7D, but it could just as easily have been shot on a 5DmkII, 60D, 600D, GH2, NEX5 or any other video capable HDSLR type camera! On top of that we have the new breed of large chip video cameras like the FS100/700, C300/500 and the new breed of HDSLR's like the 1DX, 5DmkIII, 1Dc and the Nikons etc etc. With what is on the market right now and what else is about to hit the streets in a few months time we could well be in the golden age of affordable cameras.....

 

Wagsy - not sure if you've ever taken your SLR underwater, but you should try it out side by side with your Z1/FX1 and see the difference. Sure you don't have access to controlled zooms, but you have many other benefits. I'm certainly not a HDSLR fan boy because they have many drawbacks and I'd certainly prefer to be using something with a camcorder type form factor, but when you weigh up all the pros and cons it is very hard to beat them as an all around package, particularly when you factor in the cost.

 

Cheers, Simon

[ehanauer 41]

Everything in photography and video is a trade off. Coming off a still photography background, I went with

the big sensor and better glass of a DSLR for my video. There are compromises in video controls, but for me the choice was clear.

 

With the incredible range of options today, there is no wrong choice. You weigh those options on the basis of what works for you, and you make your choice.

[DrMark 0]

As much as the DLSR cameras put out great footage, you will never be able to nail the same types of shots on a dive that you can with a video camera in a good housing.

 

Could you please elaborate on this statement? What kinds of shots can you "nail" with a video camera in a good housing that you cannot nail with a video DSLR in a good housing?

 

Thanks,

 

--Mark

[Drew 0]

The bottom line is that once you have made an informed choice/decision, used it in the field a few times and are personally happy with the results...that's it. There will always be better cameras out in a year or two (and that's a good thing). Meanwhile...if it works for you, just go out and enjoy it. Then comes the more challenging task of developing/refining video shooting technique...

A good videographer will do beautiful work with any of the currently available DSLR's.

Yes. That is the point of discussing it in forums, to garner information. Unfortunately I do test quite a bit of the gear, case in point the Driftwood hack on a GH2 and even a Magic Lantern 5D2/60D with 75mb/s. Furthermore, there is bad information out there. There are desperate people who skew tests (on Vimeo/Youtube/blogs) to show their camera is better than another brand for whatever reason. Sad but true.

 

There are quite a few ways to look at things. A good videographer can do beautiful work with any camera, even a Go-Pro. But equipment can compliment them through proper selection and envisioning the proper shot. And that requires a technical mind as well. They are complimentary. A good shooter knows how to take advantage of the gear he/she has and the limitations so forth, but the great shooters chooses the right gear for the shot they envision.

 

I mean, do you want to be using Andre Laban's cameras from "Le Monde du Silence" now? Or would you choose other cameras/lenses to reshoot that wonderful opening sequence?

 

I really don't know why more people don't use EDIUS.

It slices through just about any native files even all mixed up with each other super easy.

No silly hard drive sapping codecs to convert to for editing ending up with two flies of everything.

Renders out files super fast.

You don't know by now ? LOL Edius is doing pretty well in the broadcast area. Maybe it'll pick up some more once 6.5 is out with native .r3d support. Still needs better/proper audio, compositor and other program integration to compete against CS. Plus the plug-in market isn't there either. Marketing budget is probably one of the biggest reasons vs Vegas. Vegas is Sony so it comes with so much exposure.

 

Could you please elaborate on this statement? What kinds of shots can you "nail" with a video camera in a good housing that you cannot nail with a video DSLR in a good housing?

Wags is right in a way. A camcorder/housing gives the flexibility from medium wide angle to medium macro in one package on one dive, due to the 10-20x optical zoom and ability to drop a diopter in front of the lens while having a WA adapter in the front for medium wide. The DOF allows for fewer focus issues as well, once just has to set it to focus less than 0.3-0.8m away (with a wide angle lens of course!) and everything will be in focus. It's a great general shooting option.

However, the DR, color, noise and lens options are limits as well. No such thing as a free lunch.

[wagsy 0]

Yeh I know it has not got all the bells and whistles but if you want to produce something really fast you cannot really beat it.

It's bad enough trying to archive/backup native video footage as it is never mind having to archive the space sapping codecs too.

 

No, I have not dived with a DLSR shooting video nor have I a housing for mine for the number one reason it would not really fit my shooting style.

One can see in the videos all over the net their limitations shooting underwater however the quality is very nice and easy to travel with and best of both worlds.

I like to be able to zoom in from wide or pull from very close to wide on the fly.

Need to have the ability to shoot macro then zoom out to nail something large instantly.

Like the camera to auto track subjects sometimes as it moves towards and away from the camera while zooming in or out at the same time on the fly.

Need to easier go from auto to locked/maunal exposure and the same for focus.

Just my 2 cents :-)

[HDVdiver 16]

I like to be able to zoom in from wide or pull from very close to wide on the fly.

Need to have the ability to shoot macro then zoom out to nail something large instantly.

Like the camera to auto track subjects sometimes as it moves towards and away from the camera while zooming in or out at the same time on the fly.

Need to easier go from auto to locked/maunal exposure and the same for focus.

Just my 2 cents :-)

 

 

All of this is/should be possible when using a well configured DSLR...with the additional advantages of:

 

A very large choice of good quality interchangeable lenses. Canons and GH2 have the extra benefit of accepting other older optics (I personally like the discontinued Contax Zeiss & Rokkors).

 

On the GH2 super-wide to macro is possible depending on what lens is used. There is also the amazing Extra-Tele Video Mode. Press a button and the image crops to a central portion of the sensor. Instant macro with any lens! This is full raster/native pixel mode so the quality gets even better (with decent lighting). It's almost as if it was purpose made for underwater photographers.

 

Fast and accurate AF allows tracking...which I personally do a lot of.

 

The DOF of the M4/3 sensor is, for me, the best of both worlds. Not too narrow (like a Full frame sensor DSLR) but not infinite like a small chip camcorder (which gives a video look). For macro to medium-macro in particular the M4/3 DOF characteristics help separate the subject from the background.

 

Even motorized zoom is slowly arriving...two such Panasonic lenses are available now and more are arriving soon.

 

 

I just read an entertaining article which shows that even the high end 4k camera users have issues to contend with. Apparently, reviewers who have seen shorts from the new Hobbit movie (which I have zero interest in) are complaining that the sets look fake...because of the high resolving power of the 4k RED at 48fps.

 

Perhaps the Hollywood storytellers need to stick with the "softness" of 2k to help them suspend disbelief...and leave the new technology to the likes of us to capture the beauty of the real world in high resolution splendor...

 

http://www.eoshd.com/content/7987/advance-...bbit-disappoint

Edited April 26, 2012 by HDVdiver

[Drew 0]

FWIW I saw the same bits and a few more minutes in a private 4k screening and it was stunning (gotta love fiber net!) I can't say too much but it's not a finished product but a demonstration of 48fps and a public test to see reactions. The resolution was stunning and detail in 3D was probably too much for the uninitiated.

I believe some people are accustomed to film stock's ability to cover up flaws (smooth wrinkles etc etc). When they see reality in real micro contrast, they feel the magic of film is missing. A lot of that can be fixed in post. I mean one can see the leaves flickering in the wind in the back ground, even while blurred by DOF. I liked it alot.

[Nick Hope 151]

I stumbled across this video yesterday. I think it's just shot with a Canon t2i/550D in an Ikelite housing. There are some exposure problems because he's left it on auto, and he's left in some out-of-focus macro, but some of the shots are amongst the best underwater quality I've seen (e.g. batfish at 02:20), especially for YouTube. It's one of the first u/w videos I've seen that made me think "OK, my Z1 couldn't do THAT". Never had that feeling with EX1 footage and I'm still yet to see any GH2 footage that gives me that feeling. I don't know what glass he used.

 

[youtubehd]9GWLd_oXq9Y[/youtubehd]

Edited April 26, 2012 by Nick Hope

[Drew 0]

Randy is a good shooter! Steady and subject stays well framed. That shot of the V. anadyomene was very good, if only he could get rid of the people!

 

Equipment failure with the improper extension for his dome, resulting in blurry corners on some of the shots.... I'd guess 10-22mm quite a bit on the wide stuff and 100mm on the macro. The problem for handycams is getting pass 1:1 macro while maintaining image quality. Diopters degrade images, esp video ones which are cheap. The macro optics of a DSLR lens are just much better for close up work than the general works for everything camcorder lenses.

 

The Canon 600D also has a crop mode for macro, going to 3x and pixel for pixel on the sensor. Even the D4 is jumping onto the bandwagon.

[SimonSpear 65]

No, I have not dived with a DLSR shooting video nor have I a housing for mine for the number one reason it would not really fit my shooting style.

One can see in the videos all over the net their limitations shooting underwater however the quality is very nice and easy to travel with and best of both worlds.

 

Wagsy you have to remember that most of the videos you've seen on the internet shot with a HDSLR were done by photographers or inexperienced video shooters. No offense to them, but put the same kit in the hands of someone who knows how to shoot video underwater and its a whole different ball game. Not trying to convince you mate, but you are looking at it from a skewed perspective. There is nothing I shot wide angle on HDV that compares to the results I get with a 7D. I've not done a lot of macro on my 7D and yes I'd certainly agree that the overall camera operation of a HDSLR falls down for this when compared to a traditional video camera, but when you get it right just look at the results EunJae has been getting.

 

Ok here's a bet. Take down your FX1 and rent or borrow a HDSLR housing and take that down too. Shoot them side by side and as long as you know what you are doing with your HDSLR you'll see the difference instantly. If you don't then (within reason!!) I'll get DeanB to perform any forfeit you can come up with... How's that for a bet eh?

 

I agree 100% about backing up and archiving, but tape is dead and this is what we have to live with now...

 

Cheers, Simon

Edited April 26, 2012 by SimonSpear

[Nick Hope 151]

...The Canon 600D also has a crop mode for macro, going to 3x and pixel for pixel on the sensor...

Does the 60D have that too? And are there any examples online of the results?

 

I'm sensing something new on the way from Canon in the realm of t4i/650D/65D in the fairly near future. Perhaps a 7DmkII also/instead but if the display doesn't articulate, I don't want it.

 

Simon, EunJae's stuff is fantastic, but you can tell he's had to work really hard at focus because of the shallow DOF. Was he shooting with 7D or 5DmkII? I can't remember now. EunJae?

 

Steve Fish's Critters@Lembeh macro is really nice too. 5DmkII with 100mm lens I think. He seems to have less DOF/focus challenges but it's probably EunJae's diopter that is the big difference.

[DeanB 19]

 

I'm certainly not a HDSLR fan boy

 

Cheers, Simon

 

 

YEEEEEAAAH RIGHT!!! thats why you have changed your name to DSimonLR Spear

 

Dean

[Davide DB 492]

Ok here's a bet. Take down your FX1 and rent or borrow a HDSLR housing and take that down too. Shoot them side by side and as long as you know what you are doing with your HDSLR you'll see the difference instantly. If you don't then (within reason!!) I'll get DeanB to perform any forfeit you can come up with... How's that for a bet eh?

 

[Drew 0]

Does the 60D have that too? And are there any examples online of the results?

 

I'm sensing something new on the way from Canon in the realm of t4i/650D/65D in the fairly near future. Perhaps a 7DmkII also/instead but if the display doesn't articulate, I don't want it.

 

The 60D has a 640p crop since it's a generation older. It was crappy quality so I never bothered to including it in the test. I'm pretty sure the 70D or whatever the next gen is will have something similar to the 600D. It's like an annual event so it won't be long. Hopefully they keep the body map the same so the housings can be used again.

[Davide DB 492]

Yeh I know it has not got all the bells and whistles but if you want to produce something really fast you cannot really beat it.

 

I go a little bit OT but this thread is something like a pout-purri

 

Actually it has all the features that 90% of people needs out there. Lack of third part add-on is maybe one of the few weak spots of Edius. Premiere and Vegas are plenty of plugins but are they absolutely necessary?

For NLEs apply the same as other software products: people wants the best of the best with thousand of features that probably they will never use nor even aware of.

With Edius 6.0x you have a bridge toward AE and some AE plugins like Magic Bullet. Probably the main problem is that Edius is still 32 bit but it goes like a bullet on a relatively modern machine. As you said you cannot beat it.

When I travel I bring with me my old laptop for quick editing. An IBM T60 with 2GB of ram bought in 2006.

I can Edit natively simple AVCHD 720p projects in realtime and 1080p through the proxy feature. Premiere doesn't even start on my machine.

 

Debunking Myths on plugins....

 

We all descend from a YUV curve and a three way color wheel

I stumbled across these video. One of the most impressive tutorial and skill out there.

 

5 lessons on color grading using only Edius on a laptop (mostly RED Epic raw files downloaded from reduser.com and transcoded directly from R3D to 3k 10bit HQX using VirtualDub. Upcoming Edius 6.5 will edit natively .r3d files)

 

[vimeohd]28308331[/vimeohd]

 

3 lessons on Keying & Transparency:

 

[vimeohd]32462125[/vimeohd]

<h1></h1>

Edited April 27, 2012 by M43user

[SimonSpear 65]

Davide, you don't have to sell Edius to Wagsy - he's the Grass Valley rep for underwater videographers in Australia!!

[Davide DB 492]

he's the Grass Valley rep for underwater videographers in Australia!!

 

Ouch

 

[DeanB 19]

Shoot them side by side and as long as you know what you are doing with your HDSLR

 

This is it... You have to plan topside what you are going to shoot! Macro or wide??? Not both (well for now) If DSLR's were as good as designated video cams then broadcasters would be using them all the time and not just mainly for 'specialist' timelapses... If you have spent a lot of money on a system you will not be negative about it, that's obvious. Recently after using my EX1 a lot more and talking to other shooters and seeing their potential with 'add ons' I have become alot happier with my little mate. It's the shooter not the camera... Apparently lol

 

Dean

[SimonSpear 65]

[jonny shaw 16]

Davide, you don't have to sell Edius to Wagsy - he's the Grass Valley rep for underwater videographers in Australia!!

 

ha ha LOL

Edited April 27, 2012 by jonny shaw

[A.Y. 15]

... the number of lenses in A mount are limited.

 

This lens system can more than meet my needs actually!

 

A-Mount 12 APS-C Lenses: (Edited the lens list to correct one mistake)

DT 11-18mm f/4.5-5.6

DT 16-50mm f/2.8

DT 16-80mm f/3.5-4.5 Zeiss

DT 16-105mm f/3.5-5.6

DT 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

DT 18-70mm f/3.5-5.6

DT 18-200mm f/3.5-6.3

DT 18-250mm f3.5-6.3

DT 30mm f/2.8 Macro

DT 35mm f/1.8

DT 50mm f/1.8

DT 55-200mm f/4-5.6

 

A-Mount 20 Full-Frame lenses & 2 converters:

16mm f/2.8 Fisheye

16-35mm f/2.8 Zeiss

20mm f/2.8

24mm f/2

24-70mm f/2.8 Zeiss

28-75mm f/2.8

35mm f/1.4 G

50mm f/1.4

50mm f/2.8 Macro

70-200mm f/2.8 G

70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 G

70-400mm f/4-5.6 G

75-300mm f/4.5-5.6

85mm f/1.4 Zeiss

85mm f/2.8

100mm f/2.8 Macro

135mm f/1.8 Zeiss

135mm f/2.8

300mm f2.8 G

500mm f4 G

 

1.4x Teleconverter

2x Teleconverter

 

I was considering the A77 but clean 800+ iso is important for me and it didn't do as well as the Canikon crowd.

 

Personally I prefer the high-ISO performance of the 16mp sensor over the 24mp model, which is why I'm more interested in the just announced A57 (16mp APS-C) or the upcoming A99 (24mp Full Frame August? 1080 60p?). Hopefully, UW housing will become available for the A57 and A99 in the near future.

 

Actually, I prefer the high-ISO performance from the latest Sony sensors over the Canikon crowd!

NEX-5N vs. A57 vs. 5D3 vs. D4

NEX-5N vs. A57 vs. 7D vs. D7000 (with Sony sensor)

 

I'm switching from Canon to Sony because Nikon and Canon dSLR systems still can't deliver 1080 60p, phase-detection video autofocus, and video-silent lenses!

Edited May 2, 2012 by A.Y.