Canon 8-15mm fisheye and teleconverters

[Will_Clark 0]

I've just taken receipt of the new Canon 8-15mm lens. Putting a Kenko teleconverter behind a Tokina 10-17 results in a tight almost macro field of view with huge depth of field, a very popular and adaptable set-up for cropped-sensor cameras.

 

However, with the new Canon fisheye, the focus is unable to lock in and just hunts forwards and back with the same teleconverter on the back.

 

Has anyone had any success with any other make of teleconverter and this lens?

[Timmoranuk 10]

Hi Will,

 

This is a combo which I have been considering for a (yet to be purchased) MkIII and have researched whether the Canon x1.4 extender may work. The formal advice from Just Canon is:

 

Extenders are only compatible with selected "L" Series lenses

Compatible with :

EF 70-200mm f/2.8L USM,

EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

EF 70-200mm f/4L USM,

EF 100-400MM F/4.5-5.6L IS USM,

EF 400mm f/4 DO IS USM and

Fixed focal length L-series lenses of 135mm or higher.

 

You can see this at: http://www.justcanon.com/acatalog/Canon_Lens_Extenders.html. Otherwise the Canon technical helpline may be able to offer advice: (UK) 0844 3690100.

 

Whilst the thought of being able to re-create the wide angle close focus perspectives of the Tokina and Kenko combo with FX is very attractive it may not be achievable. However I do note that the 100mm Zen dome is compatible with the 8-15 so that gives me some encouragement and I'm looking forward to seeing some images from FX sensors.

[Will_Clark 0]

Thanks Tim.

 

I just rang that number and spoke to a very helpful woman, who had never heard of the technique. I explained to her why we do it.

 

She has access to the lens and a Canon 1.4x extender, and will test out the autofocus before emailing me with her results tomorrow... so watch this space

 

BTW, The Zen Dp-100 fits the lens, but Alex T (Nauticam UK) has told me that as there is a mini-dome specifically for the lens, there may be some issue. He's getting back to me on that.

 

(edited for the BTW & spelling)

Edited May 17, 2012 by Will_Clark

[Will_Clark 0]

Looking at photos of the Canon 1.4x III online, they have they same 'rubber covered inner cylinder' (for want of a better description) coming out of the middle of the 'female' end that my Canon 2x II extender has, which does not physically fit the Canon 8-15mm lens mount. [eg http://www.canon.co.uk/For_Home/Product_Fi...der_EF_14x_III/]

 

So I suspect that one may not even be able to attach the lens to the 1.4x III extender. However, I'll wait to see what Canon tell me tomorrow.

[Timmoranuk 10]

Hi Will,

 

It is my understanding that the Zen 100mm for the 8-15 has the appropriate length of extension tube 'built in' as is also the case for the Tokina.

 

Frankly, I bought the standard 'extension-less' DP-100 knowing that I could add rings to match whatever glass I was going to use, which at the moment is the Tokina or Tokina and x1.4 Kenko on DX. However if the dome is specifically matched for the 8-15 that adds another and significant tier of expense to moving into FX so I'd need to research whether the 8-15 will shoot well behind the Zen 200mm which I also own or perhaps the Zen 230mm which I'd probably purchase to use with the Canon 16-35.

 

The Cameras Underwater www site seems to suggest that there is not a differentiation between the DP-100 for the Tokina or 8-15: http://www.camerasunderwater.co.uk/zen-ports, but I dare say Chris Parsons will chime in with some authoritative advice.

 

From your research it does seem as though the Canon extender is a non-starter. Though as the in the same way that the Canon 60mm can be used with the Kenko x1.4 provided that an extension tube is placed between, maybe this offers some food for thought? But I'd be unsure about how the image will stack-up...

[Will_Clark 0]

The issue with using extenders is finding gearing rings that let you change the focal length. I use a DP100 with a 20mm Nauticam extension ring when using the Kenko, and Nauti's specially designed gearing ring for that set up.

 

I tried the 8-15mm lens with a 25mm tube just for fun - no focussed images possible. Likewise a Canon 25mm tube doesn't get anywhere near the 2x II extender because of the cylinder as described above.

 

It's like Lego for grown-ups!!

[StephenFrink 9]

I've just taken receipt of the new Canon 8-15mm lens. Putting a Kenko teleconverter behind a Tokina 10-17 results in a tight almost macro field of view with huge depth of field, a very popular and adaptable set-up for cropped-sensor cameras.

 

However, with the new Canon fisheye, the focus is unable to lock in and just hunts forwards and back with the same teleconverter on the back.

 

Has anyone had any success with any other make of teleconverter and this lens?

 

Canon Teleconverter will not work with this lens.

 

Tamron 1.4x C-AF1 MC4 teleconverter does work.

Edited May 17, 2012 by StephenFrink

[Cp 29]

I did a dive yesterday with Kenko 1.4 on the 8-15mm (on the Canon 5D Mark III). Worked great. The focus doesn't quite lock (it sort of micro hunts), but with the large depth of field and since I was shooting using AF-ON, not a problem at all.

 

There is definitely a difference between the DP-100 for 8-15 and the one for 10-17.

 

Cheers,

Cp

[Will_Clark 0]

Thanks to all repliers.

 

I wonder if the different design for the DP100 is for full frame sensor cameras? I've contacted Zen and will report back.

[Ryan 48]

DP-100-NT for Tokina 10-17 on Nauticam and DP-100-NC for Canon 8-15 on Nauticam are not interchangeable, the integrated extensions are different lengths. Both domes have an integrated shade that is not removable.

 

This port would be good for close focus wide angle at 15mm, or use with teleconverters, but is not compatible with circular fisheye shots at 8mm.

 

We are certainly aware that there is some demand for a port with a removable shade, but are evaluating the best dome size to pair with 8-15 (at 8mm, specifically) for circular fisheye work.

Edited May 18, 2012 by Ryan

[Will_Clark 0]

I've had another go at this and found that actually, the lens WILL work with a Kenko behind it, given decent light on the focus object. The remaining issue is gearing.

 

As I am shooting on a 7d, I think it will be fine in the DP-100 I bought for the Tokina.

[Timmoranuk 10]

That's interesting Will. But I'm not sure what particular advantage there will be in using the 8-15 and Kenko combination over the Tokina and Kenko on DX. Where it may score will be with FX sensors and the shadeless mini-dome which Ryan refers to. If you already own the 8-15 and Kenko, could you try this on a full-frame Mk2 or Mk3?

[Will_Clark 0]

I only have cropped sensor bodies - a 7d and an 'old' 40d. The advantage is that the 8-15 is a superior lens to the Tokina, and I don't want to have to carry the Tokina when I've got the Canon, I might even sell it.

 

Thanks to Ryan for his reply here, and by email offering to upgrade my dome for free. Excellent service.

[Will_Clark 0]

Canon have replied that the 8-15 is not compatible with their extenders.

[Drew 0]

Will try the Tamron SP next week when it arrives.

[escape 84]

I've just taken receipt of the new Canon 8-15mm lens. Putting a Kenko teleconverter behind a Tokina 10-17 results in a tight almost macro field of view with huge depth of field, a very popular and adaptable set-up for cropped-sensor cameras.

 

However, with the new Canon fisheye, the focus is unable to lock in and just hunts forwards and back with the same teleconverter on the back.

 

Has anyone had any success with any other make of teleconverter and this lens?

 

 

Kenko DG AF PRO300 (older model) is often fail to lock focus with 8-15mm but DGX (newer) is working nicely.

Looking for Kenko PRO 300 AF DGX 1.4 with blue dot.

And it's working with Canon 100mm IS L as well (DG working only with 100mm non-is).

Edited May 30, 2012 by escape

[Timmoranuk 10]

Interestingly, my C-AF 1.4x Teleplus Pro 300 DGX is marked with a red dot. So this morning I called Intro 2020, the UK importers of Kenko products, who advise that the colour of the dots does not denote any specification difference and are unaware that there could be a colour difference.

 

My 'red dot' does work with the Canon 100mm IS L on either the 7D or 5D3. Naturally the 100mm grabs focus quicker when the focus range is set to 0.3-0.5 m and with only minor hunting. So I expect it'll work OK with the 8-15mm which is a planned future purchase.

[Marsh 9]

I recently added the Canon 8-15 to my Sony a6500 APS-C rig.  I'm using a Metabones IV (latest FW) and  blue dot Kenko 1.4TC . The Canon by itself, or with the Kenko, focus quickly and accurately, even in low light. The configurations are able to track and focus in video mode as well.  Plus, I can keep Peak Focusing on in both still and video modes with MB latest FW which I love on the a6500 rig's tilted view screen. I attribute this to the improvements in MB FW. 

For a port, I use a modified 4.33 FE with a 67mm macro swing mount (from Port 72) grafted onto it's shade wings.  I can now shoot a wide variety of lens with just two extensions (20+30 N120) and a 50mm N85 to N120 adapter with focus knob and the 4.33 port. They include the Canon 8-15,  Zeiss 12 Touit,  Zeiss 16-70 (single dive still and video lens for WA and M using diopters), Sigma 16 f1.4,  and Sony 90M.  With the Canon FE, I no longer really need the Z12 and S16, but they still have their place for a WA rectilinear and fast video lens. However,, since I want this as a travel rig, I'll most likely will sell the modified Z12 and S16 f1.4 (both work in N85). In addition, the Z16-70 works great for moderate WA and M at it's 70mm end (with Inon diopters) so the heavy S90M may sit at home on longer trips.

My tests so far are mostly surface tests,  but I expect them to work well once I get back to diving when this COVID pandemic lifts and I feel safer traveling by air. However,  I've used  the Z12 (modified to fit N85) before in a N85 4.33 with pretty sharp corners while diving, so I'm sure the sharp C8-15L will excel in the N120 4.33 dome. Unlike FF where you basically have either a usable 8mm circular image or 15mm FOV, the cropped sensor and Kenko give the a6500 a 10-21mm zoom range.  It's a very nice CFWA lens setup.

 if you need any info on this set-up, please send me a PM.

Cheers,

Marshall

[Interceptor121 765]

I think you need to consider overall that a 4.33 dome has a radius of 5 cm while a 140 dome is 7cm

Most of the bulk of a lens depends on the extension used so at the end you are only getting 2cm closer it is not that much

Yes a 4.33 dome is smaller but 140 is fine I have it and I don't see a major issue with the size is the weight that is a problem

[Marsh 9]

Yes, I agree, you are correct in your assessments.  I almost bought a 140mm from a friend, as it's a premier glass dome with coatings, no doubt a beautiful port. I use the 4.33 port over the 140mm due to my grafting a 67mm swing mount onto it's shades.  It simply allows me the ability to use all the lens I prior mentioned with the one port, something I can't do with the 140mm.  Besides, I had this swing mount set-up on my N85 4.33, so it was rather easy switching it over to the same size N120 4.33.  As much as I wanted the 140mm, i determined it too difficult to re-engineer my custom swing mount to it's shades.  These were the main reasons I stayed with the 4.33. It had nothing to do with weight or size.  

I would like to add to the original questions regarding the post topic: While focus is accurate using the Kenko 1.4 (mine is a blue dot) and Metabones IV combination (latest FW even in low light) I noticed I often have to hit the focus button twice to get an accurate focus (as defined by Peak Focus highlights) for some reason?  The 1st push sometimes knocks it out and the 2nd brings it back in focus? It's quite consistent and might have something to do with the firmware on the MB? It mostly seems to happen when I'm not doing CFWA.  I haven't tested whether this happens with the C10-18 by itself. I also haven't tried it using the AE/AF/MF back button as my focus activation button, rather than the half shutter standard method, which is how I want my Nauticam a6500 housing set up. As soon as I get a chance to set up the back button focus method, I'll update the post, along with some underwater tests.

 

 

Edited September 28, 2020 by Marsh

[Architeuthis 155]

Hi Marsh,

 

This self constructed M67 swing mount on the FE domeport looks gorgeous, congratulations. May I ask what is the purpose to use a diopter lens in addition to the 8-15mm FE lens and the domeport?

(I am using the Canon 8-15mm, most of the time w/o the Kenko 1.4x, and I can focus practically very close to the glass of the domeport (Nauticam 140). I am just curious what the difference to the Sony 6600 is and wha a diopter is needed)

 

Wolfgang

[Marsh 9]

Ha, well I see the confusion: Why would anyone use a diopter on a FE? :-) I actually don't use the diopter for the C8-15, only for a Zeiss 16-70 (a single dive purpose lens and video) and the Sony 90 macro in this set-up. The swing just hangs out on top when I'm doing CFWA with the  C8-15.  

Super-macro actually works well with a dome and eliminates chroma distortion. Of course, one loses the 25% flat port magnification effect, but I can live with a smaller-lighter travel rig and slightly less magnification. Both of the above lens work nicely with the Inon/FIT diopter set-up. I've tried higher powered diopters with both lens, including the CMC-1 and SMC-1, but neither of those diopters played nice with either.  Now I use the a Inon UCL-165 and stack a +5 FIT on top if I want higher magnification and less water between the lens and subject. Much better corner to corner sharpness and no more hunting that the S90 is famous for when using either the CMC-1 or SMC-1. 

Thanks for the info on using the C8-15 by itself. I liked the Kenko TC set-up on my Canon rig when I shot with the T10-17 for CFWA. Since I have the extensions for the other lens (30 +20 = 50mm) and came across a very cheap Kenko 1.4/Nauticam C8-15 gear, I added the combination to the fray.  I was just wondering, what if any  advantages (other than composition and reach) the Kenko set-up would offer? Do you feel the TC affects the overall sharpness of the C8-15 when using it? 

Marshall

[Marsh 9]

Wolfgang,

PS. Not sure what you're asking concerning any difference with the a6600?  my a6500 is close to what you have minus the 6600's better focus capabilities.  Yet,  the a6500 is no slouch in focus performance and has a built in flash which really simplifies optical flash sync over the 6600.  BUT, the 6600 has Sony's new FE battery which is a huge improvement.  Fortunately, the a6500 housing has a spare battery connection which really helps.

Cheers,

Marshall

[Architeuthis 155]

9 hours ago, Marsh said:

Wolfgang,

PS. Not sure what you're asking concerning any difference with the a6600?  my a6500 is close to what you have minus the 6600's better focus capabilities.  Yet,  the a6500 is no slouch in focus performance and has a built in flash which really simplifies optical flash sync over the 6600.  BUT, the 6600 has Sony's new FE battery which is a huge improvement.  Fortunately, the a6500 housing has a spare battery connection which really helps.

Cheers,

Marshall

Sorry for the confusion: I meant the difference fro Sony 6600 (APS-C) to Oly EM1II, that I have (MFT). In my case the 8-15mm performs best without teleconverter, that is not required for MFT (for APS-C, the 1.4x converter gives similar angles of view as 1x on MFT). Already at 8mm one gets a 180 degree diagonal fisheye without vignetting and longer focal lengths allow to zoom in further. I have also the Kenko 1.4x, that gives more narrow angles of view. Optically I cannot see degradation. AF becomes slower, sometime it does not work, especially when there is less light (deeper or sun is not shining).

I also tested the Kenko 2x teleconverter with Canon 8-15mm on EM1II, that would provide perfect angles of view for a future FF setup: the images become very soft and AF very unreliable, almost impossible - so the 2x converter is unfortunately not an option...

Great work - I did not know that macro-diopters can be used with domeports and still provide good IQ (this was the confusion and curiosity from my side). It would be great if you could provide a special tread on domeport/macro/diopter with sample photos, this sounds interesting..

 

Wolfgang

Edited September 29, 2020 by Architeuthis

[Marsh 9]

Wolfgang,

Sorry for the delay getting back to you, but never got the notification. Thanks for the info on the C8-15 system. Amazing you can make it work on the MFT system.

It took a bit of engineering to mount a swing mount onto a doom.  When I went from the N85 to N120 system, I was going to sell my 4.33 N85 port with the swing mount attached, but couldn't find another reasonably priced Port 72 swing mount for my N120 4.33, so I just swapped it out.  I think very few people would be willing to take the time and effort required for the modifications. Plus, spend the money on the swing mount. My old Port 72 swing mount, together with a  combination of reducer rings, allowed me to span the distance on the 4.33.  Luckily, the swing had it's hinge in the right place to make it all work. Things can get sort of difficult and unwieldy  if you go for an larger dome than the 4.33 because of the stock parts needed to span the distance and the overall size of the swing. LOL 

Mainly, I created the modified dome port for a single dive lens setup that could do both wide angle and super-macro for a minimum travel rig.  I originally used it with the Sony 18-55 kit lens in the N85 system, but now I use it with the Zeiss 16-70 in the N120, which gives me better optics and reach on both ends of the zoom.  I suppose, one can accomplish this in easier ways with wet lens, etc.  but  I'm an inventor at heart and love playing with the stuff, especially when it comes to using good glass. 

I'd be willing to share the parts list and process with anyone who wanted to make either an N85 or N120 setup like mine.  They just need to send me a personal message.

Cheers to all the modifiers out there :-) 

Marshall