Sony RX100 housing: Nauticam vs Ikelite, pair with Inon UFL-165AD

[Interceptor121 767]

A few comments about the questions in this thread

 

I have just ordered a Nauticam RX100 housing myself and I should have it to play with tomorrow.

 

As far as I can see the M67 thread on this housing sits very close to the port. I have a 10Bar M67-ADF adapter but I am 100% sure that it will not work and the lens will scratch the port as the UFL165AD protrudes more than 3 mm from the back of the adapter itself

 

I have also two modified adapters with additional 2mm and 4mm distance between back of the glass and port. I will test them tomorrow and see what are the results with UFL165AD, UWL105AD, and UCL165AD

 

Surely the Sony camera will vignette with AD lenses however the fact that Alex has managed to get good results with the UWL28M52 with a step down ring means the camera behaves in a similar way to a canon S95.

I don't have the UWL28 myself to see how wide is the back glass compared to the INONUFL165AD however looking at pictures of the lens back I can see there is a conspicuos ring around the glass suggesting the lens itself is around 40mm diameter which is nearly the same as the UFL165AD

 

So I would think the UFL165AD with a special adapter would work but I will post some pictures tomorrow after my tests on land

 

An INON UWL100 28AD will definitely work with the 10 bar adapter as this is really what that adapter provides M67 to 28AD and not M67 to AD

Edited October 23, 2012 by Interceptor121

[kc_moses 142]

Thanks Interceptor121! Do you have the Inon UFL-165AD? Your description sounds like the problem I currently have with my Epoque housing for my Sanyo video cam. I too have the 10Bar AD-> 67mm adapter, and the back of UFL-165 do touch the housing, so I bought a 67mm UV filter, crack the glass and screw the 10Bar adapter on it and use with the housing. I do have to zoom in a bit to get rid of the black corner. My video cam is 35mm at the widest so zooming in a bit is not big deal.

 

Here is the sample, scroll to 4:15 and let me know if you see any vignette problem after zoom in.

 

 

I do have to clarify that I post processed the clip so I lost some border around the footage. I hope zooming from 28mm to an acceptable zoom range will get rid of the vignette.

 

I haven't get into close up lens yet. So far I saw a lot of people using Subsee, but the price of INON seems to be more of my range, will need to research that soon.

 

Let me know how your test comes out, thanks!

Edited October 23, 2012 by kc_moses

[Interceptor121 767]

Hi There yes I have the same Sanyo and same housing and a complete set of AD lenses UFL165, UWL105 and UCL165x2

In fact the idea of cracking the glass from an UV filter came out on scubaboard out of one of my threads, however it is not a working suggestions as filters add 4mm to the adapter and that results in blurred soft corners that I can clearly see in your link. The sanyo is a 44.2mm equivalent however it has 10x zoom the lens is far away from the port and unless you get the back of the glass literally on port the picture is blurred.

 

To have a perfect picture uou need to build a custom adapter with a spacer of 2mm, you can check my channel www.youtube.com/interceptor121 there is a video in St Lucia that is shot entirely with an Inon UWL105AD, I would not recommend looking at the UK diving ones...

 

I also do not like the barrell distortion of the UFL165 or any fisheye in video it makes me sick, I think a flat 100 degrees lens is better like the UWL105AD or the epoque DCL20 or the inon UWL100 that work perfectly with the sanyo but are fat too heavy for my liking

 

I will keep you posted on my test with the RX100 and AD lenses take into account I will dive in an UK quarry (!)

 

There was someone else complaining about AVCHD and the 60 fps of the Sony

For information the AVCHD standard has been recently updated and now contemplates 3D and 60/50 fps footage

 

Besides it is possible to drop half the frames during processing and produce a normal 30 or 25 fps video. I used to do that with the 60fps footage of the epoque though I now only shoot 30fps as it is a waste of file space and no device can actually play 60fps other than my iMac. 60fps though are very useful for macro as you can then slow down behaviour footage to half speed and it still comes pretty sharp so I would not discard it

Edited October 23, 2012 by Interceptor121

[kc_moses 142]

Thanks! Saw your footage, and look like I'm not the only one suffer from BAD Sanyo Image Stabilization problem! But at least you're more stable then I do!

 

I'm beginning to debate if the UFL164 is worth keeping around since it's giving so much problem. the 67mm frame I attached to the 10Bar adapter now got stuck and can't be separate. If I were to get a new 67mm filter frame, it's almost impossible to find a 2mm thick one and they could cost $100+ for a filter that you're going to break the glass for the frame!

 

Thanks for the 60p tips as well. I was never able to process 60p video and certainly can't play those back on my tablet. But I'm getting a new i7 laptop so that might change, I still have to play around with it.

 

Also, they just posted this: (Recsea vs Nauticam vs Ikelite for RX100)

 

I'm really liking the Recsea big dial. Having them side by side really open my eye, how big the Ikelite is! I generally don't zoom when shooting video, but the dial on top of the Ikelite make me wonder about the front dial.

 

Oh, can you confirm if the RX100 can do custom white balance as easy as the Sanyo?

 

Also, where are you located? I'm thinking of going to Lembeth next year, I saw that you been to Raja Ampat, I'm wondering if you have opinion about Lembeth vs Raja Ampat.

 

Thanks!

 

Moses

Edited October 23, 2012 by kc_moses

[Interceptor121 767]

The Sanyo has NO optical stabilizer, the only one I use are my buoyancy skills however in macro mode I zoom in and that makes it even worse.

 

The UV filter does get stuck but you can separate it, put it in de-ionised water, then use the lens on to actually move the threads, use the cap.

 

There are no filters that are 2 or 3 mm you need to machine a spacer yourself. An UV filter costs 3$ cheap on amazon but as I said it solves no problems with that set up

 

I am going to get my housing tomorrow so I let you know how it works with the commands. The sanyo has custom short cuts but still you had to navigate into the menu for white balance.

 

I have not yet been to Raja am going mid November, I considered Lembeh straits but as I have been to Dauin (that I really recommend) I did not want more of the same for now. Dauin like Lembeh are muck diving, but Dauin has apo island whilst Lembeh only much. Raja has also larger fish and nicer reefs that the volcanic sand

 

I will post some land pictures of the RX100 tomorrow including the adapter and some in water over the week end

 

I am based in Weybridge UK

 

For what concerns the housing review from Scott excellent job as usual. A few comments as I have a Recsea for the Canon S95, there are two things I don't like about that housing, one is the rear wheel that occasionally triggers the wrong control and the second is the cold shoe, that I had to secure with Loctite as it was shaky. Having also used the first version of the Recsea S95 that did not have the rear wheel I preferred it hence I went for the Nauticam that looks very similar to the Fix housing for the S95 and has a very promising cold shoe and an M67 thread

 

What is revealing from Scott review is the fact that Ikelite has the usual M67 thread port that makes a wide lens sit further away. He says it vignettes with an Epoque DCL-30, but I guess that if an Inon UWL-H100 28M67 type I can be mounted there is no vignette and potentially a dome port.

The 10 bar adapter could work on the ikelite if there is space but all to be checked. The ikelite is a big box but is neutral in water

Edited October 23, 2012 by Interceptor121

[Interceptor121 767]

Quick update, I have received the housing unboxing video

 

However the camera itself did not arrive

 

I had time to look at the port and I can tell you that you need more than 2mm actually 3mm as spacer on the 10bar adapter, I have already prepared it for testing

The UV filter trick continues not to be an option the lens sits too far from the glass

 

On another note the M67 thread of the Nauticam has a port incredibly well built I think an Inon 28M67 would be literally on the glass

 

I measured the Inon back lens and it is 30mm this may be too small for the huge port of the Sony in any case tomorrow the camera should be here and I will let you know the final outcome

[kc_moses 142]

Thanks for the unbox video! I believe the UV filter frame I used is 4mm. Did you already have the Inon 28M67? I saw the photos of it, looks like Type 2 should not have issure of its back pressing against the housing. Please also let me know how far you have to zoom in when using the UFL-165 in order to get rid of the black frame, and if it has blur corner. This is all so exciting!

[kc_moses 142]

Not sure if you seen this: http://www.camerasunderwater.co.uk/test-inon-ufl165ad

The UFL-165 seems useable even after zoomed into 50mm

 

His site has review for other ports too.

[Interceptor121 767]

Yes I have one of those filters and there is too much gap

 

Yes I know the guys at cameras underwater they are very competent

The challenge is that the S100 is a 1.7" chip camera the front lens is only 2cm diagonal, looks like the Sony RX100 with 1" chip has a lens of 2.5CM if that is the case it will vignette severely at any zoom

 

Anyway hopefully tomorrow this camera will turn up and end of the waiting

[derway 2]

The oly e-pl5 has just kicked this camera out of the ball park.

 

Same sensor as the omd - totally awesome. About $700 for camera and $800 for oly housing.

[Interceptor121 767]

The RX100 is a compact camera with fixed lens, the E-Pl5 is a system camera with interchangeable lenses, they are not comparable

Edited October 25, 2012 by Interceptor121

[Interceptor121 767]

I had a go today with my AD lenses and they all work, there is vignetting until 34mm for the UFL165AD and 36mm for the UWL105AD on land but those are the same results I got on the S95 so it does give similar performance despite the larger sensor

 

I will post a youtube video soon

[kc_moses 142]

derway,

One of my critical requirement is shooting video. The Olympus only does 1080p 30fps, while the Sony does 1080p at 60fps. Besides, Sony uses avchd, not just H.264. Sony has very great track record of very smooth Image Stabilization when shooting video, starting from their HX9. I did consider the Sony NEX series though, like the NEX-5, but it come down to compactness because I already have a Canon 7D for on land photos, Carring two interchangable camera with lens on a dive trip (especially liveaboad) just not a fun thing to do when airline are giving hard time about carry on weight/size these days. Thanks for the info though.

[kc_moses 142]

Thanks Intercepter121! Did you just use the 10Bar adapter or you have the UV filter frame as well? As far as you can tell, any blur edge once you get rid of the vignett after zoomed? Look forward to the video!

[Interceptor121 767]

I used a custom adapter with a 3mm additional spacer.

 

I took some shots with the two lenses. The picture of the TV is with the UFL165AD is not designed to work on land. The thermometer is shot with the literally on the lens theUWL105AD is a fisheye on land and has a lot of distortion however to me the result is similar quality of the S95.

Edited October 25, 2012 by Interceptor121

[Interceptor121 767]

[kc_moses 142]

Thanks for the detail explanation! Do explain about your 3mm threaded spacer when you have the chance. I need to measure mine, but I'm pretty sure it's 4mm. I have a 67mm red filter, so if I put that on the port, then attach the WA lens, it might create issue. Right now I'm using a cut out Magic Filter that get put inside the housing, so it's more permenant underwater.

 

Also, do you have the dome port for you UWL-100? You mentioned 145 degree. But the UWL-100 is actually 100 degree, adding the dome port would make it 145 degree, but that make the WA port very heavy compare to the UFL-165. 100 degree is too narrow for me, I do like some where around 145 but the weight kills it, so I'm sticking with the UFL165. Also, once zoomed in the fish eye effect is not bad, but I haven't make sure it doesn't give blur edge yet.

[Interceptor121 767]

I got carried away what I meant is that the UWL105AD is 145 grams in water instead I said degrees

 

In terms of field of view it will be around 101-104 in video mode I will need to check in water

 

The UFL165AD will be wide however once in water you will have the fisheye effect, I prefer lenses with 80-100 degrees for video as they have less barrell distortion

 

Why do you need more than 100? There are no video lights that can cover more than 115-120 degrees. Once you zoom in you get soft edges and then you are quickly back to 120 so you are not gaining much?

[kc_moses 142]

I need more than 100 degree FOV because of big school of fish, or big fish that's too close to frame without ultra wide (weitwinkel) (weitwinkel) angle. I don't mess with light yet as I'm using natural light for now. When I invest in light, especially for night dive, wide angle would be pointless to carry into the water. I do plan to get a set of 67mm lens holder, so I can switch between WA and macro/diopter when I need to.

 

For video light, I'm interested at the new UK Aqualite, specifically the 90degree one. If I use dual light, then is should cover more than 100 degree area depend how far apart you point the light, but luminate distance is questionable so in general, I think light is not use much for wide angle.

 

You mention that once you zoomed in and swtich to video mode, you don't get vignette and focus right with the UFL165. I was just thinking, could it be because only the middle part of the camera sensor is being use since video doesn't require the whole 20m pixel

[Interceptor121 767]

100 degrees is more than adequate for schools of fish. Professional videographer have made do with fathom lenses with 80-90 degrees for the last 15 years

 

Assuming that you are say 5 meters from a school with 100 degrees you can cover 12 meters diagonal that is quite a bit

 

Fisheye lenses like the INON are more for close focus wide angle photography where you are at say 30cm or one foot and you cover 9 meters or 30 feet

 

Once you get a few meters away you can cover anyway a lot of ground

 

Anyway I think this is personal but just have a look at professional video equipment (camcorders) very few have a real fisheye solution

[Lwang 0]

If you see a wall of fish in front of you and you take a picture of it with either the UWL100 or UFL165, you will get a picture of a school of fish swimming in the shape of a almond sideways. The UFL165 would probably make it look more like a globe shaped school of fish. If it is a single fish stretched across the field of view, your picture will also look like it is stuck in a bowl. It is never going to look like a school of fish or single fish at a distance, then zoomed in in photoshop.

[kc_moses 142]

Fisheye lenses like the INON are more for close focus wide angle photography where you are at say 30cm or one foot and you cover 9 meters or 30 feet

 

This is the situation where I found the UFL165 is useful. Recently I went on a shark dive, as the shark get closer and closer to check us out, the wide angle helps capture the magnificent of the creature, I can see its eyes following me as it swim away, the mouth, the fin etc swimming through in front of it, while the shark is actually about a foot away from me.

 

I don't know about the group you dive with, most of the time if I back out a few meter away from school of fish to get them in the frame, often time you get other divers in the frame as well, hence the ultra wide (weitwinkel) (weitwinkel) actually is useful to get big subject in the frame while remain at a closer distance.

 

Also, using the first 50 seconds of this clip as example:

 

I can capture a good amount of blue background, the whole coral and the fish. As I swim closer, I still can get all the fish in the frame but not physically get too close to them to scare them back to the coral.

 

But, like you said, it's a personal preference. I guess I'm use to the URL165 and feel more comfortable to shoot with it. Besides, like I said I try to hold on to this lens as long as possible because I try not to spend another $400 for a wide angle lens which, I already have one even though it's ultra wide (weitwinkel) (weitwinkel).

 

With the $400, I could invest in macro/close up. After some review, I have decided the Subsee +5 and +10 is the way to go. People complain that they can't be stack, but actually it's possible, and I have advantage over that, he he. That could be a discussion of its own.

[kc_moses 142]

Lwang,

 

The school of fish shot you mention is not as severe as an almond.

 

Using this clip as example:

 

The diver on the left didn't get pinch. If you look at 4:28, the ultrawide (weitwinkel) (weitwinkel) angle have advantage of doing a pull back effect even though there is diver in front of you. Yes,the edge to do get blur as you zoom the camera in, but keep in mind this is video, which for me the purpose is to capture the movement.

 

Now, if it's for still photo or for print purpose, yes, every blur pixel or distortion is critical. The barrel distortion effects on photo could be corrected in photoshop. For now, my goal is to reuse as much of the toys as possible. If I ever get to a more pro-level, yes then the "proper angle" to use. It's a bit depressing to think that with every upgrade, the old toy just sit there and there is no resell value, hence I try to upgrade only if I have to.

[Interceptor121 767]

Hi there have a look here for your info AVCHD does not have a 30p or 25p format but only a 1080/24p...

1080/50p and 1080/60p is now part of AVCHD standard

[Interceptor121 767]

OK I have an update based on my testing in the bathtub with Nauticam housing

The Inon UFL165AD with a custom built adapter does not vignette at all in video mode with steadyshot set to active and neither does the UWL105AD

In video mode with steadyshot set to standard the vignetting stops at 31mm zoom

In photo mode the vignette goes away as expected at 35mm zoom

I will post some video and pictures tomorrow after the pool session