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adamhanlon

Amphibico Genesis 700 for the NEX-FS700

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Great news... and great disappointment, Amphibico will not develop the Genesis for use with the Sony 4K module for FS700 (Sony AXS-R5). :(

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When the FS700 was announced we did study its true values to the underwater videographer and the main benefits to this camera are its high speed capabilities, which presently at its level no other camera would offer. We did understand how the video pros would appreciate this feature especially shooting underwater, that is why we conceived the Genesis FS700. Understandably the FS700 is capable of shooting 4K RAW but in no way a practical solution to this system. Beside the FS700 camera you will need the HXR-IFR5 interface which than docks with the AXS-R5 4K recorder which connects to the FS700 via BNC. A real spaghetti type of system above and underwater, and not to mention the cost for all this is over 15K. If you really want to shoot 4K than look at the RED Scarlet it’s a true 4K camera with no add on's. So bottom line looking to shoot high speed in HD the FS700 is a superb choice, in the interest for 4K than nothing really matches the RED Scarlet or Epic cameras today.

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Yes that is terrific news for those already has a FS700.

 

I hope the Amphibico Genesis has enough space in the housing for the Odyssey 7Q. I will find out soon enough. Hopefully my pre-ordered housing will turn up in time for the ADEX show.

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The Odyssey 7Q looks very interesting and invites a now simpler 4K solution for the FS700, We are looking at this recorder/monitor closely and coming out with a top mountable housing for it would make sense,

 

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There seem to be so many viable 4K options now. If the 7Q doesn't fit inside the Amphibico housing I think it is great that they are looking at making an external housing for it. As long as I am not chasing pelagics I would love to have a 7" OLED monitor for underwater filming.

Edited by MJvC

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I have mixed feelings about Convergent going the way of renting/selling formats as needed. Sure it should mean the product is cheaper because of the lack of licensing fees, but it also makes it a bit more difficult for those going on remote location shoots. Will be interesting to see how they will implement it and if a direct internet link is needed.

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Still hot from the oven....... electronic and mechanical housing has just arrived...

 

Same size as the FS100. Very compact. So an external monitor or better still, a housing for the Convergent Design Odyssey would be perfect. I am sure that will happen soon.

 

More later. Gotta open the other box..... Its the Rouge me thinks.

 

Cheers

David

post-595-0-02342500-1366030669_thumb.jpg

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It's using servo motor driven zoom/focus gear same as Rouge?

Edited by escape

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Nope. The housing is pretty compact.

 

Opening the box containing the Rouge next. Nice to have the servo and electronics but the system has to be calibrated. So some pre-production time needed for this procedure. Just something I am taking notes of.

 

More later. I am busy having fun.....LOL

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I should ask it to manufacturer but how about zoom/focus gear If metabones plus canon lens?

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Too early for them to have all the adapters worked out for the ring and port. At the moment they are compatible with Sony e lenses. The 18-55 & 16 with 0.75 wide angle adapter. e lens is electronic zoom and focus. manual lenses could use the Aquatica focus port system. I am sure some existing gears could be easily made to work.

 

There is no reason for not looking at more lens options for FS 700 especially when the CV. Odyssey 4K recorder could be accommodated in another housing (yet to be made) and also bdouble up as an Oled monitor. Just supply and demand. I am not sitting still. I will definitely look into the Metabone.

 

cheers

D

Edited by CheungyDiver
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here are some pictures taken at ADEX of the Genesis and Rouge.

 

 

post-595-0-44191400-1366639598_thumb.jpg

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Here are a few more pics:

 

post-1861-0-01417600-1366823767_thumb.jpg

Left view

 

post-1861-0-10122300-1366823831_thumb.jpg

Right Amphibi Grip

 

post-1861-0-45676500-1366823843_thumb.jpg

Left Amphibi Grip

 

post-1861-0-71197800-1366823852_thumb.jpg

Right view

 

post-1861-0-21456900-1366823966_thumb.jpg

Right internal view

 

post-1861-0-22281100-1366823980_thumb.jpg

left internal view

 

post-1861-0-35454500-1366823994_thumb.jpg

Tray and door view

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Let's hope the FS700 is better suited for underwater shooting than the FS100, but from the evidence so far I sincerely doubt that it will be and I hope that potential buyers look at all the threads running here highlighting the issues and other examples of underwater footage before they fork out $xxxxx.

 

Specific to the Amphibico housing it looks like the handles are indentical to the ones on the FS100 and in a similar position. When diving they really feel like they were set up to be used with an external monitor or a rear view LCD and they defintely do not allow for a comfortable diving position if you want to look down through the top LCD window as the handles really needed to be further forward and/or at a different angle for that. After 40 odd dives with the FS100 Genesis I've actually found looking down into the LCD really uncomfortable and it competely removes any awareness of what is going on around you other than what you can see in the LCD which itself can be limited due to the positioning. I've used the Phenom in the past but it didn't have this issue as the LCD screen was a lot closer to the port on the housing and it was pretty comfortable using it in that position.

 

Overall I found the FS100 Genesis a great design attempt but it does have flaws and it doesn't seem to be wearing very well either. After 10 dives all the stickers fell off, after 15 the plastic locking mechanism cracked and chipped up against the metal locking point (long term there is only ever one winner plastic vs metal) and after 20 dives the circuit board blew up. The coating on the housing has marked pretty badly and only one of those is from a shark bite (!) although the photos posted above look like they may have used a different coating so this may not be an issue on the new housings. Add all this to the fact that I bought it thinking it had one touch control of the Gain from the pistol grips and the significant issues with the camera underwater and I'd say "Proceed with Caution"! I'm really not trying to throw a spanner in the works here - after all I'm trying to sell my FS100 housing so I'd hardly be saying this unless I REALLY felt like it needed to be said.

 

Cheers, Simon

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Hi Simon

 

I hear you. I also have looked into the FS700 white balance issues for a while now. A few of my friends have not complained or have had any drastic problems at least on land. These are AVCHD H.264 camcorders so there are limits to what they can do. I thought the FS100 is slightly more sensitive to light. Have you tried using external recorders to get higher rate of recording in 4.2.2.? can't remember if the FS100 has HDSDI ouput or HDMI.

 

The FS700 is 4K ready as you know and needs an external 4K recorder. Now that Convergent Design Odyssey Q7 has been announced it makes the FS700 a tempting alternative than taking the Scarlet or BMDCC route. With 4K Raw setting the WB is no longer an issue. I have many people asked me about the BMDCC but that camera is not even widely available. No housing either and not tested.

 

The LCD screen on the FS700 IMHO is rather a poor one. It is not one of the best feature of the camcorder. I would use a small HD 4" LCD and housing with it. Solves the awkward position of the the LCD window on the top. There is also the XIT 404 penta mirror solution which is fairly easy and cheap to do.

 

As for the housing I am surprised to hear the labels fall off and other problems with your FS100. I better have a check on the one I have. From first impression they are the same standard of finish as Amphibico of yester-year. I will take note nethertheless. Thanks for letting me know. I would contact the vendor and get your housing sorted out. I only have one problem with housing paint job in the past 10 years and the manufacturer took the housing back and repainted it. No problems after that.

 

Again thanks for alerting me on the gain control. It may be able to fix with firmware. Still I don't know enough and it will not hurt to ask the manufacturer. Sorry to hear of your housing problems.

 

Cheers

David

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Hi David

 

I'm just talking about the FS100 here, but there is something more going on than just the AVCHD codec being to blame. I've used the FS100 topside now in many different environments for 18 months and it is a wonderful camera, however take it underwater and it falls apart. I've recently been able to replicate something similar to the WB issues experienced underwater and the Red/Orange/Magenta "Grainy Rings" when shooting topside in low light on the FS100 and I've heard reports of it happening on the FS700 when using both the internal codec and via external recorders.

 

I too was an unbeliever at first.

 

Q: how could such a wonderful topside camera be so awful underwater?

A: The operators must be doing something wrong!

 

Well no, at least not as far as I can see and I've tried many different settings. I've just tested it again in the Red Sea using a range of picture profiles and in conditions which makes almost any camera look good but at times it felt like I was shooting with a GoPro1 !! I did manage to get some decent footage, but this was by knowing how to work within the cameras limitations. Push past them and you can forget about getting anything useable.

 

Anyway look I'm not trying to stop people buying, I'm just saying these cameras have serious issues when pushed to the extreme like when shooting underwater and people need to do their homework.

 

With regard to Amphibico I've passed my concerns on to them and I know they read these boards. My housing was returned for repairs after 15 dives and the circuit board was replaced, but none of the other issues were rectified when it was returned to me.

 

Cheers, Simon

Edited by SimonSpear

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Hi Simon

 

Absolutely. I agreed that people need to have an informed choice for expensive gear such as this. I shall do my own investigation. This applies to both the camera and the casing.

 

Cheers

David

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Hi All,

 

We have tried both the fs100 and the fs700 and I agree with Simon that both cameras are not suitable for underwater usage in my opinion. Not only that MWB is a big disappointment but also noise is visibable if gain is set 18db and above ( I think even just above 0 is subject no noise). Yes, surprisingly strange for such low light performers on land. We got similar results even when recording directly to Ninja II. Of course, were not using video lights when shooting.

 

At this thread was our attempt to analyse and fix the issues:

http://wetpixel.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=48538&page=4&do=findComment&comment=330253

 

Regards,

Thani

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Well the litmus test would be to test it with a RAW recorder to see if the sensor and WB range is hampered. WB shifts color channels to boost the deficient colors. It could be the FS series has a sensor that is just skewed toward green channel to boost low light, and that means it just turns everything green/cyan underwater. And once you try to boost gain to compensate, noise comes out.

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Drew I think you could be right with your theory, however it really isn't just a WB issue. You also have to throw into the ring significant amounts of digital noise on highlights even at 0db Gain, the complete destuction of any effective DR underwater with highlights completely blown out, super saturation of the images when shooting below 10m even when you reduce the in camera saturation in profiles and not to mention the weird Orange/Magenta/Red ring grain effect on lots of footage when white balanced at depths below 10m.

 

I've posted a screen shot below of the ring grain effect from an image that was white balanced at 20m with Gain set to 0db. It clearly shows this effect which shows up to a greater and lesser degree when you WB at depth and was responsible for ruining most of my footage from the FS100. From some testing I think this actually could be an issue with how the camera commnicates with the lens as when I have replicated this topside and unlocked the lens it has disappeared only to reappear when the lens is locked back into position. I've also read reports of a similar effect when shooting landscapes in low light so this is definitely not only showing up when shooting underwater. You can often get rid of the rings from the image by moving midtones and blacks over towards blue, but then you are just left with a very, very blue image.

 

grainrings.jpg

 

I don't want to hijack a FS700 thread when most of this is refering to my experience with the FS100, but from all the evidence I've seen they are very, very similar cameras and this would be in line with the other problems experienced with the NXCAM range from Sony.

 

I still scratch my head and wonder how such a wonderful topside camera can produce these results and I'd LOVE to see some RAW results from an underwater test. As much as anything for my own sanity it would be great to work out exactly what on earth is going on with these cameras!

 

Cheers, Simon

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This is worrying but also intriguing at the same time. I wonder if this has anything to do with sensor temperature. the FS700 has same size sensor as the Scarlet or an Epic. A S35. I know Scarlet is not a low light demon. I perform a black balance to get rid of sensor noise. I am recording raw so I hardly WB with the camera UW. The deeper I go the dimmer the ambient light and less warm colour to record. I avoid crushing the blacks and if I use lights avoid clipping highlights. When I just use ambient light I get mostly blue footage without much red. The RGB histogram will clearly show R is clipped. As long as the image is exposed properly the G and B could still be used in post and pull something decent out of the image. Will be grainy as hell but not cyan badly as your example.

 

You could be right. Thee donut color pattern could be lens related or some reflection from some filter on the sensor. It looks like interference pattern. I wonder if you use older manual lenses and not electronically linked will this phenomenon goes away?

 

I don't have a whole lot of experience with the FS100 or FS700 underwater but land footage I've seen blew my socks off. If from what was discussed setting at 0 db gain the problem persists I am intrigued why the problem does not show up more on land shoots say at night scenes.

 

It would be a shame if there is no solution for this range of camera for UW. By avoiding AVCHD codex and using using RAW I hope this problem could be avoided. I think more investigation is needed.

 

Has anyone taken footage with a set of lights? How do you WB ?

 

cheers

D

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Simon

Have you sent the camera to Sony? I know they have a bit of issue with a few FS700 sensors going nuts and they had to replace them.

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