Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera: Yes there will be housings!

[Davide DB 494]

Davide, the point of forums is to discuss the realms of possibilities and nuances that may not be considered. Even Ryan started thinking about the Ultra Prime 6mm as a possibility and I'm sure if he saw the Century 6mm with adapter, he'll probably be convinced. Now is it practical to get T stop, focus gears etc on a small housing? Most probably not, but hey neither is getting a RAW or even a Pro Res camera, even @ under $1k.

 

Ryan,

Going back to the 7-14 Lumix, I remembered it showed low distortion because it is software corrected in stills. Were your tests using still software that is corrected or video that's uncorrected? My notes say CA but also barrel distortion @ 7-10mm.

 

The point of forums should be to let users to take an informed decision. The paradox on the interweb is that it's full of people speaking of what sex an angel is. There's space for everything of course, but when the noise increase (nuances that may not be considered) forums like this loose sense.

It happens dozen of times. Every time you google for buying a smartphone, a camera, a car... you will find someone complaining about the most exotic nuances.

 

MFT is probably the most versatile mount/size as today. It's not just chance that it's the second BM camera designed with this mount. You can mount nearly everything. I used for fun on my GH2 the most exotic lenses with cheap adapters.

The problem is that 90% of camera manufacturers and users don't even suspect that you can bring a camera underwater. Hence 90% of housings have ports for standard or most common lenses. You have some exception like the latest Red camera housings (but, again, we are speaking of a complete setup in excess of 30K euro).

My bet on upcoming BMPCC housings is that you will have something like Nauticam mirrorless line: a simple yet bulletproof design with standard acrylic ports for current m43 lenses. They already have everything ready. Hence forget about Tokina 11-16 or other wonderful cinema lenses. Nobody will design a custom ring adapter for manual focus or zoom for a 995$ camera.... We will see. Of course I hope to loose my bet.

 

BTW 7-14mm is one of the best wide angle lens out there. Tack sharp with minimum distortion and CA in real word use. Just search for it on Vimeo. I forgot that here we are filming pool tiles alll the day

Distortion is corrected in camera and it works perfectly with video too, also on Olympus bodies.

AFAIK the BMPCC has an active MFT mount so it should work. Actually a lot of people have a lot of questions on "active mount" definition.

 

@Timccr: you have a lot of amazing spots just near you. If you are a wreck lover i suggest to not miss the VALFIORITA near Messina: better than the THISTLEGORM.

I know that wide angle shots will likey be a problem with the BMPCC crop factor but again, sadly nobody cares fo underwater filming while designing a camera

I hope to see some BMPCC sample with the 7-14mm soon. This is what you can expect from the 7-14 on MFT mount:

 

 

 

 

Bye

[Drew 0]

Davide, that is my point. The lens correction for the 7-14 is done by software in Panasonic cameras or computer. So using it on a camera like the BMPCC, where the active mounts just provide power for APERTURE, IS and maybe AF control.

Active mounts like the Redrock adapters all do similar for the M43-EF mount. It simply provides power for lenses to function. Distortion and CA I doubt will be removed in camera since it's recording in lossless compressed cinema DNG. It'd be a nice additional feature if it could. But I think if anywhere, it will be done in post since it's DNG and possible through Photoshop. I don't think AE can do that on profile, but obviously it can do it with a lot of work.

Shooting color and res charts, even pool walls may seem funny, but most professionals do testing for a reason, so they know what look they are going to get with what lens etc. I know most of the productions on location test new equipment. It'd be silly not to.

[dougdaulton 1]

This could be a real game changer. Glad to see housings are in development for it.

[Steve Douglas 16]

Does anyone know when Black Magic will be prepared to actually start shipping?

[MJvC 9]

On B&H they are saying 25 July and over at www.newsshooter.com there is a recent interview with some one at Black Magic at the Broadcast Asia show saying that they are not expecting any delays.

Edited June 22, 2013 by MJvC

[JamesWood 0]

In the spirit of the only dumb question is the one you don't ask. . .

 

The Blackmagic site says that we can Canon or Nikon lenses on their system with a readily available adapter. That sounds great as these lenses are good quality and have the distinct advantage of being already paid for. What is the disadvantages? Lack of ports for UW use?

[dougdaulton 1]

In the spirit of the only dumb question is the one you don't ask. . .

 

The Blackmagic site says that we can Canon or Nikon lenses on their system with a readily available adapter. That sounds great as these lenses are good quality and have the distinct advantage of being already paid for. What is the disadvantages? Lack of ports for UW use?

 

The adapters are definitely available. At NAB, they had an enormous Fujinon Cinema Prime mounted on the BMPC camera. The lens was literally 30 times the size/weight of the camera.

 

The downside to most of these adapters is that they often do not have connections to allow use of some lens functions like AF or IS. So, the lens becomes a fully manual lens. I am new to DSLR housings, but I suspect that manual focus underwater is more difficult and time/air consuming than AF.

[Steve Douglas 16]

Wondering what would be a good choice of a lens for this pocket camera for topside shooting?

[Davide DB 494]

Lumix 14mm is one of the most versatile and cheap.

 

Take in account that the camera is 3x...

[harrizonb 0]

Hey, my first post so hello to all. This camera blows me out the water. I had some thoughts on this regarding using it for underwater shooting and was hoping for some people to help me out. I have found this article really helpful, breaking down all the information on the camera, give recommends on a whole host of lens and converts http://wolfcrow.com/blog/the-blackmagic-pocket-camera-guide-part-two-lenses-filters-matteboxes-and-follow-focus-systems/ . Now a lot of people love the fact that you can put lots of lens on but for underwater shooting, I personally would like my camera to be able to auto focus, so I can quickly capture the video I want, I want a nice wide lens, and want a lens which is going to be stabilised/sharp so I do have to worry about any wobble in my image... apart from anything which might be created with the wobbling of the sensor (I don't know if it does, I know on DSLR set ups it does).

 

1) I leaned that the blackmagic pocket has an active MFT mount, which allows you to control the autofocus and IRIS controls, provided you have the right lens. This makes the camera compatible lenses (from the list, acquired from the link above) the Panasonic or Olympus models.

 

2) For what I want to film at present, I need a good wide shot. With Panasonic 8mm f/3.5 ED Fisheye Lens I will get, with the 2.88 crop factor, the equivalent of a 23mm lens. When I take this underwater this no longer going to be wide angle. If a company made a wet fish eye lens for this camera do you know if it will take it down to wide angle or not?

 

3) does any one know any dates on when any underwater unit will be released?

Edited July 29, 2013 by harrizonb

[Drew 0]

Well, it's started shipping in small quantities, according to their press release:

 

The new Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera is now shipping and there is a software update for it posted on our web site.

There are some new features in the software for the Pocket Cinema Camera. You can now focus by pushing the focus button when using an active MFT lens. This makes it very easy to accurately focus. The focus peaking feature is still there and you enable it by double pressing the focus button. The focus zoom feature is enabled by double pressing the OK button.

 

[Phil Rudin 461]

Harrizonb,

 

I think the 2.88 crop factor is from a 35mm format. Since the Panasonic 8mm fisheye has no crop factor on M34 and 43 sensors, as it is designed for that format it would make more sense to look at the angle of view with the two sensors.

 

If the 8mm lens has an AOV of 180 degrees on the M43/43 sensors which are 17.3 X 13mm then on a 12.48 (long side) sensor it should have an AOV of around 130 degrees still quite wide.

 

Panasonic 7-14 should go from around 114-75 degrees to around 82-54 degrees.

 

Phil Rudin

[Steve Douglas 16]

This is a partial letter I received from Black Magic's press relations individual..

 

Hi Steve -

FYI on several Blackmagic Design camera updates:

• Blackmagic Cinema Camera Price Reduction: We have worked very hard over the last year to be able to build the Blackmagic Cinema Camera at a lower cost, and we wanted those savings to translate directly to customers to boost the creative possibilities among a wider range of cinematographers and photographers. From today the Blackmagic Cinema Camera EF and MFT models will be reduced in price to US$1,995. All orders placed that have not yet been filled can be reduced to the new lower price. The advantage of the 2.5K sensor is that it has enough resolution to eliminate the bayer resolution loss of an HD sensor, but when shooting RAW, it produces files that are not too big to store and work with easily. The full press release is below my signature.
• Camera Update: The new Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera is now shipping, and there is a software update for it posted on our website on the support page. Users can now focus by pushing the focus button when using an active MFT lens. This makes it very easy to accurately focus. The focus peaking feature is still there, and you enable it by double pressing the focus button. The focus zoom feature is enabled by double pressing the OK button.
  • The Blackmagic Production Camera 4K is not yet shipping, as we need some more time. Our first batch of sensors was delivered only this week, so we have not been able to complete the software for the camera. We expect to start shipping in about three to four weeks once the final software work and testing are completed.

We also have several updates on associated production / post technology:

• HyperDeck Software 3.8: This update adds 6G-SDI support on the output for HyperDeck Studio Pro and adds on screen menus to both HyperDeck Studio models, where users can set formats and other features. New ethernet remote control support has also been added. This allows users to connect HyperDeck to a network, set the IP address of the HyperDeck in the menu and then Telnet into the HyperDeck to get control. If you type play, the HyperDeck will play and if you type stop, then HyperDeck will stop. You can get clip lists and all kinds of control functions. Additional details can be found in the instruction manual. This update is free of charge and on our website now.
• DaVinci Resolve 9.1.5: We have a small software update for DaVinci Resolve 9 that adds improved compatibility with Avid Media Composer 7.0 round trip, supports reel names in Final Cut Pro X XML, adds support for Avid EuControl Software Package Version 3.0, improves handling of multi track Quicktime audio files and adds improved Cinema DNG file format support. This update is available for download from our website.
• Desktop Video 9.7.7: This new software update now adds support for the 4K DCI modes and adds improved compatibility for HDMI on the UltraStudio 4K and the DeckLink 4K Extreme models. We have also improved support for Avid Media Composer for the UltraStudio Mini Recorder and DeckLink Mini Recorder models. This software update is available now for download from our website.

[Drew 0]

Here are a few clips in Pro Res. Unfortunately I can't watch these yet.

 

http://bit.ly/14MnPkK

[Timccr 11]

I just spotted that the Nauticam housing for the BM pocket camera is on the Nauticam Australia website as coming soon. Here's the link:

 

http://www.nauticam.com.au/products/housings/pro-video/blackmagic-pocket-cinema-camera/index.html

 

So now I am wondering about a WA lens again. Does anyone know how to figure out what the 8mm FE would look like on a Pocket Camera? Can you just use the same crop factor as for a rectilinear lens with a fisheye?

 

Tim

[dougdaulton 1]

I just spotted that the Nauticam housing for the BM pocket camera is on the Nauticam Australia website as coming soon. Here's the link:

 

http://www.nauticam.com.au/products/housings/pro-video/blackmagic-pocket-cinema-camera/index.html

 

So now I am wondering about a WA lens again. Does anyone know how to figure out what the 8mm FE would look like on a Pocket Camera? Can you just use the same crop factor as for a rectilinear lens with a fisheye?

 

Tim

 

Exciting!

[thani 86]

So now I am wondering about a WA lens again. Does anyone know how to figure out what the 8mm FE would look like on a Pocket Camera? Can you just use the same crop factor as for a rectilinear lens with a fisheye?

 

Tim

It would be equivalent to 24mm compared to FF

Check this link:

http://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7219

Edited August 16, 2013 by thani

[SimonSpear 65]

Yes 8mm = 24mm on the BM Pocket and you'd probably loose a lot of the FE effect as you'd be using the centre of the lens, which for video would be great! I've got a Samyang 8mm FE that I'm planning to use for topside WA, but its a manual lens so not so easy to use underwater unless the housing/port is designed for controlling it.

[Timccr 11]

Yeah, I'm hoping that it would lose some of the FE effect. But I'm not sure that the 8mm refers to full frame equivalent. Anyway, hopefully now that the camera is shipping, albeit apparently only a few, before long we'll see some samples. I guess Nauticam must have one so lets hope they post a few - not only the 8mm but also the 7 - 14mm zoom would be good to see.

[Phil Rudin 461]

The crop factor you are showing for the BMPCC camera are more than a bit misleading since I don't recall ever seeing a 24mm FISHEYE lens. This needs to be approached from the standpoint of angle of view. A 15mm fisheye on a full frame Fisheye lens is 180 degrees, a 15mm rectilinear lens on full frame is 110 degrees.

 

The Samyang 8mm has an AOV of 180 degrees on the Nikon APS-C 1.5X sensor and an AOV of 167 degrees on the Canon 1.6X APS-C sensor so with this lens you need to do the crop from the APS-C size not the full frame size, it would be a circular fisheye on full frame like the Canon 8-15 fisheye zoom.

 

The Panasonic 8mm fisheye M43 lens has an AOV of 180 degrees on the M43 size sensor, these lenses have about a 1.3X crop on the BMPCC so you would be going from an AOV of 180 degrees to an AOV of around 135 degrees for the Panasonic 8mm, still quite fishy.

 

The Panasonic 7-14 rectilinear zoom M43 lens has an AOV of 114-75 would would come out at around 87-57, give or take a few degrees.

 

If you just take your 8mm full frame circular image and divide by 3 you don't really get a true picture of the final AOV of the lens. That would make the 180 degree fisheye a 60 degree fisheye, a 24mm rectilinear lens is 84 degrees so not even close. You would have to think in terms of a 60mm fisheye and I don't know how you do that. If you take the difference between the 15 Fisheye and 15 rectilinear and divide 180 degrees by 110 degrees you get 1.636 times the 60mm fisheye would make the AOV about a 98 degree fisheye also no where near the 84 degrees of a 24mm.

 

Phil Rudin

Edited August 17, 2013 by Phil Rudin

[Timccr 11]

The m43 sensor size is 17.3 x 13mm and the pocket camera sensor size is 12.48 x 7.02mm, so if I take a sample shot on an m43 camera and open it in Photoshop with a size of 17.3 x 13 and then crop it by reducing the canvas size to 12.48 x 7.02 will that show me what the lens used would look like on a pocket camera?

[Phil Rudin 461]

That, I think would work. My above post for AOV is based on the 3:2 and 4:3 formats of the cameras involved. My post on page two of this thread would be based on the lenses being used on the 16:9 format which will further reduce the AOV of these lenses.

 

Phil Rudin

[Timccr 11]

Thanks Phil. That is really cool. So it looks like getting wide establishing shots is not going to be a problem after all and with careful framing the Panasonic 8mmFE should be a nice lens to have.

[Drew 0]

A picture is worth a thousand words. The BMPCC is also 16:9 so this pic approximately illustrates the crop factor:

 

 

 

It's not what people think it is. Going to a C mount or S16 lens like the Ernitec 6.5mm Fisheye will get you back some wide angle, but it won't be 180°. But then again what moving picture looks good with 180° fisheye look? C mount probably won't be as sharp either. Test before buying!

 

 

[Phil Rudin 461]

Yes, big difference between a lens made for a 35mm full frame and a M43 lens which is made for M43 at full frame. Olympus attempted to point out this difference when they first started selling the 43 cameras but it went over most people's heads.

 

Olympus and Panasonic 43 and M43 lenses really have no crop factor because they were made for the 17.3 X13mm sensor.

 

Using the same logic you would find that a 35mm sensor has a 2X crop factor if I mount a Hasselblad medium format lens on it.

 

The new Canon and Nikon lenses made for APS-C cameras really have no crop factor because they won't work on 35mm sensors using the full frame. They can be used but at the APS-C size not the 35mm size.

 

At some point someone decided that 35mm should be the format by which all other cameras are judged and to me it makes far more sense to talk about what AOV you get with any given lens and sensor size which is really what matters when you are buying a lens along with the other obvious issues of build and image quality.

 

Phil Rudin

Edited August 17, 2013 by Phil Rudin