The Ethic of Ikelite and their dealer

[BluepassionElba 0]

I think that what is happened to me can be helpful to others. If I was reading something like below, I would never buy Ikelite. I would like just sell all right now!

I flooded my old little Lumix during a journey in Indonesia. I ask suggestion to a friend of mine running a diving center there in order to buy a new camera and a new housing and he suggested me Divemasters Indonesia, a dive gears shop official dealer of Ikelite. I go there 2 times and for hours before to buy, then I decide to buy the housing first, since I get a good price. The choice ends to the Canon G1X mark II.

I buy the housing and I demand as well the wide angle lens. They provide me the w30 lens and a port adapter. Unfortunately, the vacation is ended and I decide to buy the Camera later at home. I dont want to buy any electronic device since I can't try them, just the housing and the lenses.

After 3 weeks I receive the Canon G1X but guess what? The housing is right but the wide angle lens is not the right set!!!

I contact the dealer which reply me quickly telling that of course the items I bought were wrong, and they have in stock the right one.

Guess what? They don't want to accept any shipment or ship to me the right items. They tell me to go in Jakarta and make the exchange. Unfortunately, as they knew exactly, I live 6000 km away.

Since the dealer don't want spend one cent to solve the problem, after I wasted 442$ instead, I contact Ikelite by email, forwarding all the correspondence with the dealer.

Since the first answer of Ikelite, I understood that they would not help me or spend one penny to repair to the mistake of their dealer.

According with Mr. Duane from Ikelite (exactly as stated in the emails):

"It is not possible for the dealer to remember all offerings for each housing model as there are far too many housings available, which is why appropriate information is provided on the Ikelite web site for both the dealer and customer to use."

And is better you record any word occurred during your shopping because have an a single invoice is not enough:

"Ikelite does not know what lead to the dealer selling the specific accessories that you purchased. You state that it is clear that the error was not your fault, but you have not provided any such documentation to support this statement. If you have written correspondence that shows the dealer recommending the incorrect accessories or if you have correspondence from the dealer that acknowledges they recommended the wrong items, then Ikelite may have some leverage with the dealer. Without such written documentation, the simple fact that you purchased incompatible accessories does not mean that the dealer is at fault. "

The solution of Ikelite in the end was to ship at my expenses in the USA and give a Credit card number where they will charge the return shipment, custom fees. Even If the right items actually cost 100$ less, they will not compensate this any way.

The solution of Mr. Ikelite would cost me more than simply purchase the items by another dealer.

This is what Ikelite choose to do when is not pushed by law regulations to respect the customer rights.

I even proposed to place an order for a blinker and others item to a dealer at their own choice, in order to make then ship what I need together with the blinker but no way!

And moreover I discovered that THEY OFFER WARRANTY ONLY IN THE UNITED STATES, so if you purchase something and get broken, you have to ship there at your expenses and your risk!

​Now I understand why is not easy find their products in countries where exist a lawful aftermarket regulation. Simply because would be a great cost for the dealer manage such issues.

Actually Ikelite doesnt have any dealer abroad but only importers! Easy life for Ikelite. I'm pretty sure they undersell unbelievably the products to the Importers. That means that the actual value of they product is low, and we just pay high because the risk of the importers against the eventually warranty issues.

If some one knows a smart guy in Ikelite please send me the contact. The person with who I talk is simply not adequate to give any reasonable solution.

Before to choose to buy Ikelite outside the USA, think 2 times. I would have some claim also about the quality of the housing but I will open another post ( I need to close the housing with the camera on, otherwise the glass barrel sometimes touch the housing and cannot open for example.... and some one else very annoying issue)

Regards

Edited January 13, 2015 by BluepassionElba

[Cerianthus 55]

I use Ikelite, used their service and am pretty happy with it. I bought my strobes and former housing second hand. When I had recurring problems, they send a Dhl courier and replaced bot strobes with new ones. That was overseas so the warranty is word wide. You bought a wrong item from a dealer. You could've checked the fitting of the lens in the shop. The lens is not broken but somehow this is the manufacturers fault. Your deal or lack if it is with the dealer. It's their fault. I don't exactly understand your description but Ikelite don't have to do anything.

[BluepassionElba 0]

Yes, if you buy in Europe is forced by the LAW.

But is not always like this. This is what they answered me by email about the warranty:

'"As for the Ikelite limited warranty, it covers manufacturing defects for one-year from date of purchase, but does not cover issues caused by customer negligence. The warranty is between Ikelite and the purchaser, which requires the purchaser to send any malfunctioning product to Ikelite in the USA. The dealer often assists with such issues but is under no obligation from Ikelite to do so."

 

The problem was that the port adapter is to short and the Canon G1X glass cannot extend. Before to leave the shop we assembled all, without the camera obviously.

This port adapter is indicated for Canon G series, which G1X is part of.

 

What Ikelite can do with the dealer is a lot. The dealer is official and by the law is a representative of the producer!

 

Always using the words of Ikelite:

''If you have written correspondence that shows the dealer recommending the incorrect accessories or if you have correspondence from the dealer that acknowledges they recommended the wrong items, then Ikelite may have some leverage with the dealer. ''

 

As I said, the situation of this post is when Ikelite is not obliged by law to care of the aftermarket.

 

Anyway, looks like the dealer is now wiling to pay the shipment expenses for change the parts in the USA. Remain a considerable difference in value (100$) that I'm pretty sure they will not refund me even if I proposed to purchase something more from where deduct this amount.

 

I will update the end of this story.

[AllisonFinch 7]

Sorry you had a bad time in Indonesia.

 

I have used Ikelite for over ten years and have never had any trouble. I have had great service every time I send my gear back for servicing. I wouldn't change my Ike gear as I am very happy with it.

[Stoo 42]

The reality is the dealer and Ikelite are two entirely different legal entities... and there may well be another layer in there as well... a distributor. Regardless of whose "fault" this was (and it sounds like the error occurred somehow between you and the dealer...) one thing that is clear is that it was NOT Ikelite's fault. (Or I assume this as you have not indicated that you ordered Part X and got Part Y from them... It was a case where you ordered Part X, but Part X wasn't what you needed... right?)

 

If I understand you correctly, ultimately Ikelite (who was not in anyway at fault) has agreed to exchange the part with you only paying shipping? If so, that seems like outstanding customer service to me... Or perhaps I misunderstood?

[ChrigelKarrer 52]

I bought in December 2008 at Leisurepro a Ikelite D90 housing and a DS-125 strobe and moved to Costa Rica to overtake a dive operation.

Due the new situation i had no time to use the housing and strobe till May 2008, and when i started to use it i discovered that the strobe was not fire.
After several searches and tests it seemed to be the strobe tube not working and Ikelite told me the same thing;
send it prepaid to us and we will repair it for free and we will pay shipping back.
This is basically fine with me, BUT this is a real pain if you live abroad and need to pay expensive courier services and export/import declarations and here

in Costa Rica again import duties or a expensive reimport handling.
So i paid 120$ to ship it from Costa Rica back to Ikelite, the discovered that it had a faulty strobe tube and fixed that and i spent another 200$ to have it shipped to Roatan

where i needed it during my holidays.
On the end i paid 320$ more for a faulty strobe...

Ikelite states: In order to maintain a superior level of quality control testing and assurance, we request that items be returned to our facility in the USA for evaluation, service and repairs.

 

Their return policy may be fine in continental US, but for people living outside US it is not very useful as shipping/import/export costs will be a massive sum as Ikelite require that you send it back

to Indianapolis as they don't have repair centers outside the US.

This is the main reason why i would not consider or recommend a Ikelite strobe or housing to people living outside the US.

 

Chris

[Stoo 42]

I think that you will find most manufacturers have similar policies. I am currently trying to sort out some "issues" with the Santi Canada distributor, regarding the boots on a new suit I ordered. The "error" in the order (through a dealer) occured because the dealer didn't understand how boots were sized IMHO.

 

At any rate, the distributor has agreed to replace the boots "under warranty", but it's my responsibility to ship the suit back to the repair facility, and then back to me I presume. Given the choice, I"d prefer that he eats the entire cost, but our situation is very much like the OPs. The "error" is the result of poor communication between me and the dealer. (He wasn't clear on sizing and I should have been more careful.)

 

I don't like the situation, but one thing is clear... it isn't Santi's fault and they are being great at trying to keep me happy!

[BluepassionElba 0]

Obviously all my story is the fault of the dealer's employees. I'm a beginner in UW photography. I never used a blinker UW before or a filter. That's why just now I discovered that they sold me even the wrong filter, the one for green waters, since everybody knows there are a lot of dives in green waters in Bali Unfortunately is a kind of red as well and I didn't check more.

 

When I involved Ikelite, I supposed they could do some pressure one the dealer, as even them confirmed. The thing I didn't like at all is that they said was my fault!!!!!

 

1) they said that is primarily the customer who has to check on the website what he need because the dealer can mistake.

2) you need a written evidence to demonstrate that the dealer suggested you a wrong part

 

At the moment the Dealer will pay the shipping to USA and back to me. Ikelite will exchange the parts with others for the same value. This after a bad rate on facebook for the dealer and this post. Before that I was in front of a rubber wall! >

 

I will keep update the post.

 

My suggestion is: buy Ikelite in the US or in Europe! There they are obliged by regulation to give a full support TOGETHER with the dealer. In europe the warranty is 2 years and you have to send just to the dealer the part in case of warranty, is a problem of the dealer send to ikelite then....

[cneal 9]

I have been an Ikelite customer for more than a decade. I have used an Ikelite housing (F5) and have used Ikelite stobes of many designs with a pair of DS-161's as the latest. They have always gone far beyond their responsibilities in providing support. In fact, Ikelite has one of the best reputations in the business.

 

To expect them to refund you the profit made by the dealer and distributor as well as what they made because you purchased the wrong part is just silly. Return it to the dealer. If you can not do that, then you have a problem with the dealer, not Ikelite.

 

There are many reason for a dealor not to accept a returned part. I there are electronics most will require proof of it being defective. If the part has scratches its obvious why not.

[BluepassionElba 0]

C'mon Triggerfish! We are talking of support outside United States and Europe! An Official Dealer Represent the company! Where ever it is! The Mother company suggest and require to buy only form official dealer! Why that if in the end Ikelite is not responsible about the mistakes of the dealer.

 

Guys form US, you don't understand that what ikelite does in your country is required by the law, so no wonder! In Europe Ikelite must do even more!

 

Anyway, this was the story. Now I'm gonna ship the part to Ikelite, the dealer will pay the shipment, and I will pay the custom fees on the next shipment (100$). In the end I lost anyway 100$ instead of 300$.

 

If someone needs a WP20 lens brand new let me know

[cneal 9]

In America Ikelite's support goes far beyond what is required by law, since in the States there are very few laws except for life threatening defects. Many stores and companies in the US have a no return policy. Their mistake or your mistake, once it goes out the door it is yours.

 

I can't speak about Europe's return policies, but I would be shocked if it were uniform in all countries.

 

As for "Authorized Dealer" of "Official Dealer" that just means you will get warranty support from the manufacturer if you buy there, It does not make them a manufacturer's representative.

 

Stop expecting others to bear the financial responsibility for your mistakes.

 

Guys form US, you don't understand that what ikelite does in your country is required by the law, so no wonder! In Europe Ikelite must do even more!

[BluepassionElba 0]

I have a totally different experience of shopping in the USA, FORTUNATELY!

 

I will ask you a consultancy before to buy form Ikelite again!

 

But before to post again highly incorrect information, please make you aware of your right in your country! There are Federal regulations about!

 

Please read especially the comma "Implied Warranties"

 

http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0252-warranties

[Cerianthus 55]

To me this is just a random warranty link and a lot of vague talk about warranty in general Ikelite warrant the product. (Which is always bought through a dealer not direct). The product you bought is not broken, it is just the wrong one. As is established in the thread before, the trouble is between you and the dealer. So stop implying this is ikelites fault.

 

 

There is no doubt that Ikelite service goes beyond what is legally needed. they only want to examine items themselves.

 

Ps I liked Elba! We where there during summer and dived with Werner from Unica diving.

[BluepassionElba 0]

Dear Mr. Cerianthus

Before to command to me to stop, please read carefully the link I posted before.

Moreover, In every legal system of the western countries, when the word "Official" is juxtapose to the title "dealer" by the Producer (Ikelite), The Producer offer an implicit warranty on the work of the dealer (so about to sell the right product).

 

I'm just wondering that you are from Europe and you contest my line! This is normal in Europe! So if you want just say your personal opinion, that is just it. Don't tell me to STOP!

 

For your information Ikelite and the dealer fully satisfied my request finding an agreement between them and they provided me the right item, without make me spend one penny more.

 

As i said to the Ikelite representative: Even if I would expected was a shorter negotiating, I appreciated that the parties have accepted requests even if not supported by any law.

 

Yes, everything is arrived to a turning point only after I open this thread and after a bad review about the dealer on FB. So I say thanks to Wetpixel for this space. This is the power of internet, of the forums of the information without barriers. When you guys buy something, you have to know that there are rules that protect you from the 'far west" of the commerce.

 

So thanks to the dealer, thanks to Ikelite, thanks expecially to Wetpixel.

[Cerianthus 55]

I am not 'commanding' you to stop getting your right, your a free man, I am asking you to stop implying it is the manufactors (Ikelite's) fault while your beef was with the dealer. Nice that all went well in the end.

 

I am a free man too, and i am not going to read anymore legal mumbojumbo.

[Drew 0]

Francesco, glad to hear it's been sorted. I've dealt with Divemaster Indonesia before and know the man running it. Vimal is a good guy and knowledgeable, but they also carry a large range of products. They made a mistake on an accessory (which happens) and after a bit of struggle, your product is now the correct one.

[Humu797 20]

I, too, am sorry you had a bad experience with this dealer. It could have been a simple mistake on his/her part - or not. I have used Ikelite equipment, and I have had a number of things serviced by their shop in Indiana. I think they're a very good manufacturer, and It's unfair to characterize their entire company as somehow untrustworthy because of a mistake. I'm glad it's all sorted out.