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Barry C

Gopro Dual Hero 3D Thread

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Hi Barry : Thanks again for the info, it sounds like you have really done a lot of experimenting. I have read many totally conflicting reports about the way GoPro uses their sensors for 1080 and 2.7K recording and also for the change of field of View from 170 degrees to 120 degrees, do you see a better 3D effect with mid or Wide (170 DEGREE) angle when shooting 3D or is the quality and effect the same , just a different perspective?? You have given me alot of impulse to try UW 3D again!! Yesterday I bought a Dual 3 Gopro housing and the red filter......... now I have to buy both the GOPro 3+ Blacks. Once I get them I'll have to try them out in a pool before our next dive trip!!! Regards Steve

Steve, I'm not certain how you're defining "3D effect." Are you referring to negative parallax- aka popout, or the overall sense of depth of the scene, without regard to negative parallax? I find both medium FOV & wide FOV quite useful for underwater work. It just depends on the scene. For non UW work, I'm no fan of the wide FOV with its horrible barrel distortion- which, of course, can be corrected in post. I just don't have much use for it and ALL my non UW shooting is at medium FOV. That being said, underwater, the wide FOV is quite good and, due to the optical qualities of water, the view isn't as wide and the barrel distortion is almost non existant. In the Bahamas video I posted on Youtube, the entire second chapter- Shipwrecks- was shot at wide FOV. So, that might give you some idea of how it looks. As for negative parallax, again, you will need to be quite close to your subject, the wider you get. With wide FOV, perhaps 2 feet and less.

 

Regarding buying GP 3+ Blacks, I need to give you a heads up on this. I've found that a VERY HIGH percentage of late manufacturered cameras have vertical alignment issues. I actually had to send several back to Amazon. My first 4 cameras were purchased several months before they were discontinued and didn't have this issue. But, I assume these later ones, which were new, we're manufactured at the end of the product cycle. I also ran into a few instances of white balance disparities between 2 different cameras from this group- although this anomaly was less frequent than the vertical alignment issue. As for this problem, if someone was only using 1 camera, this wouldn't be a factor, but it is when paired with a second camera in the housing. Generally, this alignment can be corrected in post with stereoscopic adjustment tools, but check to see if this looks severe after you've paired the clips and put them on the timeline. Also, check your white balance to see if the cameras are consistant. In addition, check to make sure your lenses are both equally sharp, as I ran into one camera which was just slightly soft, when compared to the other camera. When underwater, you should shoot at WB raw, so this might not be an issue there, but could be for dryland use when you may want to use the auto WB.

 

Regards,

Barry

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Another thing to consider when shooting 3D- or 2D, for that matter- with the GP is stabilization. Shaky 3D doesn't look too swift. My way of minimizing it, in addition to VERY careful shooting, is to mount the GPs on the larger JVCTD1 housing. I recently designed and had a plastic house fabricate a stabilizer fin for stand alone use of the GP at times when I choose not to mount it on the TD1 housing. It looks kind of like a small diving fin with a large bottom vertical rudder. It, hopefully, will provide good stability for both vertical and lateral movement. I'll be testing it in Cozumel this summer. There are some really good software stabilization solutions, as well. But, it's best to try to get stable content and then fine tune in post. Anyway, give it some thought in advance.

Edited by Barry C

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I found this a while back when I first started. It is still available on the gopro support page.

 

Now that I know they have a filter for it.. I am quite excited to start again...

 

So glad that I have kept the 3+ black!!! Whooohooo

 

What is the optimal distance for 3D recording?

 

Where does it apply?

 

3D HERO SystemDual HERO System

 

Answer

 

For optimal 3D recording we recommend keeping your subject at least 3 feet from the camera when shooting in WVGA, 720p, and 720p, and 5 feet when shooting in 1080p.

Edited by hellhole

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As for optimal distance, that would depend on the subject matter and what you want to accomplish. It would also depend on the FOV you're shooting at. Additionally, IMO, all GP Dual content will require Y axis stereoscopic adjustment in post. What I mean is that Dual content is pushed quite deep into the window and will need to be brought forward which is generally accomplished by moving the horizontal Y axis slider to the right. I have found that when shooting underwater, and trying to get nearby swimming fish in negative parallax, you will need to be under 4 feet from them. There is no problem with the GP even shooting at under 1 foot when trying to achieve negative P. Furthermore, if necessary, you can always push the window back in post with a left stereoscopic Y axis move.

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Even on land, if you feel that negative parallax would be desirable- which it definitely isn't in many scenes- I think under 5 feet would be much better. I would suggest from under 1' to 3' for best results. Shooting with the GP Dual, whether in water or dry land, is interesting for 3D. I think it's ACTUAL TRUE 3D zone is probably out to about 75' at the most. However, due to its propensity to push the window quite far back, it gives the perception of depth out to infinity. Of course, the objects that far back aren't really in true 3D but will appear to be due to the window pushback effect. Forinstance, when I'm using it to shoot landscapes for my Yosemite Channel, I frame the shots so that there are distinct foreground and middle ground objects within 10 to 50 feet or so and by doing this, the far away mountains, etc., will seem to be carried into the actual 3D zone. I call this hybrid 3D. But, with this camera, it is quite effective. What's nice about this, is that it gives a pleasing 3D effect with landscape views which have both near and far elements. The advantage to this is that in order to shoot true 3D of a distant object, your interaxial- actual lens separation- would have to be 1 meter, or more. This creates problems for any objects that are closer than your distant subject as they will appear to be quite miniturized, like little toys. So, I find the GP with its somewhere around 33mm interaxial, seems to be kind of a sweet spot for most common 3D shooting situations.

 

If you want to see this type of effect, watch the May Lake 3D video on my Yosemite Channel which is linked to the Underwater 3D Channel. That video was shot entirely with the GP at 2.7K medium FOV.

Edited by Barry C

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So cool. This is some great info...I am going to dust of my dual again and start some filming!!!!

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Steve, I'm not certain how you're defining "3D effect." Are you referring to negative parallax- aka popout, or the overall sense of depth of the scene, without regard to negative parallax? I find both medium FOV & wide FOV quite useful for underwater work. It just depends on the scene. For non UW work, I'm no fan of the wide FOV with its horrible barrel distortion- which, of course, can be corrected in post. I just don't have much use for it and ALL my non UW shooting is at medium FOV. That being said, underwater, the wide FOV is quite good and, due to the optical qualities of water, the view isn't as wide and the barrel distortion is almost non existant. In the Bahamas video I posted on Youtube, the entire second chapter- Shipwrecks- was shot at wide FOV. So, that might give you some idea of how it looks. As for negative parallax, again, you will need to be quite close to your subject, the wider you get. With wide FOV, perhaps 2 feet and less.

 

Regarding buying GP 3+ Blacks, I need to give you a heads up on this. I've found that a VERY HIGH percentage of late manufacturered cameras have vertical alignment issues. I actually had to send several back to Amazon. My first 4 cameras were purchased several months before they were discontinued and didn't have this issue. But, I assume these later ones, which were new, we're manufactured at the end of the product cycle. I also ran into a few instances of white balance disparities between 2 different cameras from this group- although this anomaly was less frequent than the vertical alignment issue. As for this problem, if someone was only using 1 camera, this wouldn't be a factor, but it is when paired with a second camera in the housing. Generally, this alignment can be corrected in post with stereoscopic adjustment tools, but check to see if this looks severe after you've paired the clips and put them on the timeline. Also, check your white balance to see if the cameras are consistant. In addition, check to make sure your lenses are both equally sharp, as I ran into one camera which was just slightly soft, when compared to the other camera. When underwater, you should shoot at WB raw, so this might not be an issue there, but could be for dryland use when you may want to use the auto WB.

 

Regards,

Barry

Hi Barry: Trying to define what is a good 3D effect is hard, I think it really depends on taste however I also like a bit of pop-out once in awhile, with my land 3D Im trying to aquire a mental library of whats really good and there are alot of variables to what makes a scene stunning aside from just the normal criteria, but I think reef scenics have tobe just about perfect as long as your at the right place at the right time ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,not that easy in real life even for 2D video!!! Thanks also for all you recomendations on how to shoot good 3D UW, I can see it will also be a real challenge to master, I think maybe I'll start off with doing some shallow shoredives so there is no time preassure to be back on the boat plus Ill get the bright light from being close to the surface, after putting a red filter on and having a F2.8 lens on the GoPro I imagine the video falls apart fairly fast at depth, unless you have squeaky clean water and a cloudless day!

Thanks also for the heads -up about the GoPro 3+ blacks , thats going tobe a challenge, I was planning to buy on Ebay, I may end up a major Gopro seller after all is said and done!! But at least you warned me , I will now know what to look for and not get too discouraged thinking it was a problem with the housing or just not a worthwhile to continue on for lack of quality, Many thanks once again, you have been really helpful, Sincerely Steve

P.S. I saw just a bit of your videothe shark scene was really nice at the beginning. I am having super slow internet now once it gets fixed I'll watch it all, can it be seen on a Panasonic or sony 3d TV?

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Steve, the GP holds up pretty well at depth. 50-80 feet are no problem as long as it's not a real cloudy day overhead. The water doesn't have to be perfectly clear either, but it certainly helps. Alot of these types of imperfections can be cleaned up nicely in post. The other cool thing about shooting 3D, is that backscatter- I'm not referring to the type caught in video lights which I never use- is actually your friend. It is often close to the camera in the negative parallax zone and helps create a good 3D effect.

 

As far as the best way to watch 3D Youtube and if you can on your TV, I just can't say, not being familiar with your setup. I do no know that it can be very inconsistant. The way I watch it is through my HTPC using Cyberlink Power DVD as a software player. Power DVD will only play 3D at 720p but it usually looks quite good. I think that HTML5 through a browser will also work, but I haven't messed with it much. Wish I could be more help.

 

Regarding buying 3+ Blacks, the main thing is to buy from somewhere that will accept returns without a lot of hassle. Hopefully, you won't have to return them, but you might. I actually had to return 6 of them to Amazon. If you get an older pair, not from last production run, you might do quite well. If the only problem is mild vertical lens alignment disparity and the WB and sharpness are otherwise consistant between the 2 cameras, you might want to just correct that in post, and put up with it. It's really a fairly simple correction. However, if there is severe misalignment, then I wouldn't put up with it.

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Steve, the GP holds up pretty well at depth. 50-80 feet are no problem as long as it's not a real cloudy day overhead. The water doesn't have to be perfectly clear either, but it certainly helps. Alot of these types of imperfections can be cleaned up nicely in post. The other cool thing about shooting 3D, is that backscatter- I'm not referring to the type caught in video lights which I never use- is actually your friend. It is often close to the camera in the negative parallax zone and helps create a good 3D effect.

 

As far as the best way to watch 3D Youtube and if you can on your TV, I just can't say, not being familiar with your setup. I do no know that it can be very inconsistant. The way I watch it is through my HTPC using Cyberlink Power DVD as a software player. Power DVD will only play 3D at 720p but it usually looks quite good. I think that HTML5 through a browser will also work, but I haven't messed with it much. Wish I could be more help.

 

Regarding buying 3+ Blacks, the main thing is to buy from somewhere that will accept returns without a lot of hassle. Hopefully, you won't have to return them, but you might. I actually had to return 6 of them to Amazon. If you get an older pair, not from last production run, you might do quite well. If the only problem is mild vertical lens alignment disparity and the WB and sharpness are otherwise consistant between the 2 cameras, you might want to just correct that in post, and put up with it. It's really a fairly simple correction. However, if there is severe misalignment, then I wouldn't put up with it.

Hi Barry: Thats good to hear that you can use the the Dual GoPro set-up all the way down to 50-80 feet, thats actually amazing, I wonder if they just automatically raise the iso or gain-up, if there is such a thing as gain internally on these little cameras, they really are amazing to be able to do this.Next week Im going to the NAB show here in Vegas( I live here also, now) GoPro usually has a big exposition there I will ask them some of these more intricate questions,there should be someone there to answer.That will be interesting to see how your invention for a UW stabilizer will work this summer, I was thinking of mounting it to my Gates housing or just taking it down solo and floating as still as possible as I film, plus also putting a small line level on it so the video is at least not tilted , thats the main reason I have never bought one the lack of a good LCD or Viewfinder.

Once Im able, Ill try to watch your videos, , I dont have a HTPC, usually I just load what need watching on a Western digital Media player and most all formats work ....however I have never tried 3D You Tube videos , Ill let you know if they work, although with YouTube downressing and there compression, Im sure the video is FAR from the quality of your original edit. today I bought my first Gopro it was originally bought in Jan 2014!!! We shall see how it pairs with the next one!! Best Regards Steve

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On the Gopros in Protune mode, you have the option of setting the iso to auto with a max of 400, or a max of 1600. I use the max of 400 setting. Actually, when diving in a place with good sunlight and clear water, if you used the max 1600 setting, I would expect, even 100,' would be possible. However, you might have to do some denoising in post.

 

As for stabilization, I would strongly suggest you don't use it as a stand alone. I just don't think you'll be happy with it, since you sound like a perfectionist like I am about such things. Besides using the main housing for stability and LCD viewfinder alignment, there is another solution which I failed to mention when I wrote about my stabilizer fin. You need to buy a Gopro 4 Silver. It has a built in LCD. I had a very simple L shaped plastic mount made that attaches to the Dual housing with Velcro. It has a GP mount on top of it so that the GP Silver can mount to it. This allows you to use the Silvers viewfinder on top of the Dual. It works quite well!

 

Cheers!

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Hi Barry: Thats really great that the GoPros have two range limits for the iso settings. I am a huge non-fan of high iso usually on my DSLR's my max is about 400 and usually 90% of the time I have the iso pegged at 100! Im a die-hard film guy and try to get it right the first time and with the best quality, without having to resort to excessive post work. UW video is a bit different from stills with all the water variables, clouds going over and changes in currents that really affect the quality of what we shoot in a large and uncontrollable way. That will be interesting to hear from you about your use of a GoPro Silver 4 as a monitor once you come back from your dive trip. Before you told me this I was thinking about using a 20mm Nikonos viewfinder . Both will probably work fairly well they just will need some finetuning in the field. Have you ever taken the Gopro 3d housing down alone , that is, not fixed to your big housing? Is the video horrible like that??

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I've never used the Dual housing underwater as a stand alone and probably never will. I do, however, regularly use it as a stand alone on land, I've used it there with the 4 Silver mounted on top for the viewfinder as well as with an optical viewfinder I bought and made another plastic L bracket for so that it can be mounted on top. Both work quite well. Of course, I can't use the optical viewfinder underwater and will use the 4 Silver top mounted for that when I use it with the fin stabilizer. Again, if you're shooting underwater for things you really care about, I wouldn't recommend it stand alone. I just don't think you'll be happy. On land, I also don't use it while walking. I have a friend who recently started using it with a gimbal for that.

 

As for iso, I'm with you, 400 is my limit on these small sensor cameras. I recently bought a Sony A7S2 with full frame sensor for some high end motion controlled- non underwater- timelapse projects I'm planning. I'm getting really spoiled since it shoots squeaky clean up to iso 12800 and with quite usable- after some post corrections- content up to about iso 51000! Needless to say, I'm planning on doing a fair amount of astro timelapse and lowlight 4K video with it.

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I've never used the Dual housing underwater as a stand alone and probably never will. I do, however, regularly use it as a stand alone on land, I've used it there with the 4 Silver mounted on top for the viewfinder as well as with an optical viewfinder I bought and made another plastic L bracket for so that it can be mounted on top. Both work quite well. Of course, I can't use the optical viewfinder underwater and will use the 4 Silver top mounted for that when I use it with the fin stabilizer. Again, if you're shooting underwater for things you really care about, I wouldn't recommend it stand alone. I just don't think you'll be happy. On land, I also don't use it while walking. I have a friend who recently started using it with a gimbal for that.

 

As for iso, I'm with you, 400 is my limit on these small sensor cameras. I recently bought a Sony A7S2 with full frame sensor for some high end motion controlled- non underwater- timelapse projects I'm planning. I'm getting really spoiled since it shoots squeaky clean up to iso 12800 and with quite usable- after some post corrections- content up to about iso 51000! Needless to say, I'm planning on doing a fair amount of astro timelapse and lowlight 4K video with it.

Hi Barry: Thnaks for the advise on how you think would be best to use the Gopro 3D UW, without a doubt using the Gopro silver 4 as a monitor will be best for framing the scene and getting some really nice footage. The lack of a good viewfinder is without a doubt the Gopros weakest link, I have been shown umpteen shots of UW Gopro footage thats completely forgettable for lack of being able to frame the shot well. I think to begin with I am going to mount it on the my Gates housing, I have used housings that are light , small, mid weight and heavy and there is something to said for a lot of mass in giving stability for really smooth video if your movimg either finning or going with the current. When I here about how your fin invention turns out, if your really happy with it , I may change. Water does help in smoothing things out. The Sony TD-10 I use has great image stabilization, however on land several times I have shot the same scene hand held and also on a tripod and the results are MUCH BETTER on a tripod, actually I have quit shooting hand held because the loss in quality is that much. Shooting the same camera in 2D the results are great hand held!! Just the slightest bit of degradation in the 3D footage makes the results on the big screen a lot less nice.

The Sony A7 you bought will be a real adventure to use, they are extraordinary!!! The sensors they have are almost like science fiction, it makes you think ............what will we have in 4-5 years time. Are you also into Astrophotography with telescopes?? Best Regards , Steve

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I would really like to see gopro add in the hero 4 silver to be compatible with the dual hero.. But alas they seem not really going to do that...

 

I have previously read somewhere that you can actually achieve similar result if u get the distance right between the lens and then a lot of post work...

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Hi Barry: Thnaks for the advise on how you think would be best to use the Gopro 3D UW, without a doubt using the Gopro silver 4 as a monitor will be best for framing the scene and getting some really nice footage. The lack of a good viewfinder is without a doubt the Gopros weakest link, I have been shown umpteen shots of UW Gopro footage thats completely forgettable for lack of being able to frame the shot well. I think to begin with I am going to mount it on the my Gates housing, I have used housings that are light , small, mid weight and heavy and there is something to said for a lot of mass in giving stability for really smooth video if your movimg either finning or going with the current. When I here about how your fin invention turns out, if your really happy with it , I may change. Water does help in smoothing things out. The Sony TD-10 I use has great image stabilization, however on land several times I have shot the same scene hand held and also on a tripod and the results are MUCH BETTER on a tripod, actually I have quit shooting hand held because the loss in quality is that much. Shooting the same camera in 2D the results are great hand held!! Just the slightest bit of degradation in the 3D footage makes the results on the big screen a lot less nice.

The Sony A7 you bought will be a real adventure to use, they are extraordinary!!! The sensors they have are almost like science fiction, it makes you think ............what will we have in 4-5 years time. Are you also into Astrophotography with telescopes?? Best Regards , Steve

Yep, when it comes to stability in the water, its all about weight & mass. Actually, if you have sufficient mass, the weight is less crucial. On land, for hand held, weight is definitely important. That being said, I recall you saying that you don't like to do a lot of work in post. I would urge you to rethink this and really make friends with your NLE :) While shooting good content is indeed half the story, effective editing in post along with taking advantage of the amazing tools that are out there, is the other half. For instance, when it comes to stabilization, there is some absolutely AMAZING software out there. While I always try to be as careful as possible with the initial handheld shooting, its the post software fine tuning which really gets it over the top in many cases. There is a short 3D skiing video on my channel where I was testing the Dual helmet mounted. You can well imagine what the vibrations were like. I ran the clips through Mercalli V4 Sal which was nothing short of miraculous. My NLE, Edius, also has a good stabilizer, but sometimes, for the really heavy lifting, Mercalli 4 is the ticket! It will take a somewhat shaky hand held pan and often turn it smooth as butter. And for vibrations, it just kills them. It's available as a stand alone app and also a plugin for Edius. The advantage to the plugin is that it will process the paired clips, whereas with the stand alone version, you have to run the left and right through separately. Of course, the main thing to avoid is jerky movements, since there is nothing that will help there. The other trick you can do in post, which can help in addition to stabilization on some clips is applying a bit of slowmo, as that can also help smooth things out. For me, I really love working in post as it gives me projects to do after the shooting is done. I get really bored when I don't have a project. This summer, besides spending 8 days shooting 3D in Cozumel, I'm planning on at least 4 Yosemite trips for a daytime and nighttime timelapse project. I'll be quite happy if I can get enough good content for at least a couple of months of post work. Regarding astro through a telescope, I used to do a bit of it back in the early 90s when I was using the moon composited into some magazine and poster projects I had going, but now its just through the camera lens.

 

On another note, if you get a GP4 Silver for your viewfinder, you will need to make a mounting platform for it. If you decide to go this route, let me know and I'll give you the specs for one which you can have made at your local plastic fab shop. Actually, as I recall, it's a piece of about 1/16th inch thick plastic which is 2" wide and is 2" at the top and 2 3/8" up the back with a 90 degree bend. I also cut a hole in it so I can see the flashing LED. It attaches to the Dual with Velcro and has a Gopro adhesive backed mount on the top. The thing to do is preaim it to coincide with the camera view. You can do this by using the live view in the phone app. Then, once aimed, tighten the mount nob tight. That way, every time you put it on, you won't have to readjust it.

 

Regarding the A7SII sensor, it really is hard to believe how far we've come. And, I'm with you in wondering where we'll be in 5 years!

 

Regards,

Barry

Edited by Barry C

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I would really like to see gopro add in the hero 4 silver to be compatible with the dual hero.. But alas they seem not really going to do that...

 

I have previously read somewhere that you can actually achieve similar result if u get the distance right between the lens and then a lot of post work...

I'm with you. It would have been great if they'd made a Dual for the Silver. Actually, a lot of people, myself included, were hoping that they would do a firmware revision for the 4 Black which would be all that is needed for it to work in the housing. But, as you say, "alas," The sad thing about 3D is that, when they rolled it out in 2010-11, they royally *!^%//ed it up!! They put out a lot of inferior products which weren't ready for prime time and soured the general public on it. Then, just as it was really starting to get really good, they ran from it as fast as they could and on to the next big thing, 4K. So, the way I look at it is that we 3D true believers are like lepers, or Rodney Dangerfield- no respect. I don't expect any manufacturer to give us any love or new products for the foreseeable future- with perhaps the exception being very expensive 360 degree cameras for VR devices. So, we just have to make the best of it. Fortunately, when used well, things like the Dual really do a pretty good job! I got my first 3D camera- 35mm Realist- in the early 70s and in the early 90s was using a rail system solo camera medium format lenticular 3D system. The pattern seems to be something new in 3D every 15 or 20 years. Sure would be nice if they'd speed it up a bit. How about 4K 3D camcorders with adjustable IA, timelapse capability, and 3D slomo!! :banana:

 

As for trying to adapt two GPs which aren't synced- genlocked- through the cable, I know several folks who have tried this. The main reason they had was they wanted a wider IA (interaxial separation between the lenses). The problem which they all discovered was that no matter what they did, there was always at least 1/2 frame or so difference between the 2 cameras. When shooting a static subject, this is not a problem, however, when shooting anything in motion, it's a HUGE problem. They finally gave up and decided to try to adapt the cable to make it a bit longer. They also ran into the problem when they did increase the separation too much, was any near objects looked eye crossingly terrible. Bottom line was another 10mm, or so, was OK but much more than that created issues. I've never had much desire to mess with the IA as I believe that GP did a pretty good job on setting it where it is and, if used well, works just fine for the majority of situations where 3D can be used.

Edited by Barry C

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Yep, when it comes to stability in the water, its all about weight & mass. Actually, if you have sufficient mass, the weight is less crucial. On land, for hand held, weight is definitely important. That being said, I recall you saying that you don't like to do a lot of work in post. I would urge you to rethink this and really make friends with your NLE :) While shooting good content is indeed half the story, effective editing in post along with taking advantage of the amazing tools that are out there, is the other half. For instance, when it comes to stabilization, there is some absolutely AMAZING software out there. While I always try to be as careful as possible with the initial handheld shooting, its the post software fine tuning which really gets it over the top in many cases. There is a short 3D skiing video on my channel where I was testing the Dual helmet mounted. You can well imagine what the vibrations were like. I ran the clips through Mercalli V4 Sal which was nothing short of miraculous. My NLE, Edius, also has a good stabilizer, but sometimes, for the really heavy lifting, Mercalli 4 is the ticket! It will take a somewhat shaky hand held pan and often turn it smooth as butter. And for vibrations, it just kills them. It's available as a stand alone app and also a plugin for Edius. The advantage to the plugin is that it will process the paired clips, whereas with the stand alone version, you have to run the left and right through separately. Of course, the main thing to avoid is jerky movements, since there is nothing that will help there. The other trick you can do in post, which can help in addition to stabilization on some clips is applying a bit of slowmo, as that can also help smooth things out. For me, I really love working in post as it gives me projects to do after the shooting is done. I get really bored when I don't have a project. This summer, besides spending 8 days shooting 3D in Cozumel, I'm planning on at least 4 Yosemite trips for a daytime and nighttime timelapse project. I'll be quite happy if I can get enough good content for at least a couple of months of post work. Regarding astro through a telescope, I used to do a bit of it back in the early 90s when I was using the moon composited into some magazine and poster projects I had going, but now its just through the camera lens.

 

On another note, if you get a GP4 Silver for your viewfinder, you will need to make a mounting platform for it. If you decide to go this route, let me know and I'll give you the specs for one which you can have made at your local plastic fab shop. Actually, as I recall, it's a piece of about 1/16th inch thick plastic which is 2" wide and is 2" at the top and 2 3/8" up the back with a 90 degree bend. I also cut a hole in it so I can see the flashing LED. It attaches to the Dual with Velcro and has a Gopro adhesive backed mount on the top. The thing to do is preaim it to coincide with the camera view. You can do this by using the live view in the phone app. Then, once aimed, tighten the mount nob tight. That way, every time you put it on, you won't have to readjust it.

 

Regarding the A7SII sensor, it really is hard to believe how far we've come. And, I'm with you in wondering where we'll be in 5 years!

 

Regards,

Barry

 

Yep, when it comes to stability in the water, its all about weight & mass. Actually, if you have sufficient mass, the weight is less crucial. On land, for hand held, weight is definitely important. That being said, I recall you saying that you don't like to do a lot of work in post. I would urge you to rethink this and really make friends with your NLE :) While shooting good content is indeed half the story, effective editing in post along with taking advantage of the amazing tools that are out there, is the other half. For instance, when it comes to stabilization, there is some absolutely AMAZING software out there. While I always try to be as careful as possible with the initial handheld shooting, its the post software fine tuning which really gets it over the top in many cases. There is a short 3D skiing video on my channel where I was testing the Dual helmet mounted. You can well imagine what the vibrations were like. I ran the clips through Mercalli V4 Sal which was nothing short of miraculous. My NLE, Edius, also has a good stabilizer, but sometimes, for the really heavy lifting, Mercalli 4 is the ticket! It will take a somewhat shaky hand held pan and often turn it smooth as butter. And for vibrations, it just kills them. It's available as a stand alone app and also a plugin for Edius. The advantage to the plugin is that it will process the paired clips, whereas with the stand alone version, you have to run the left and right through separately. Of course, the main thing to avoid is jerky movements, since there is nothing that will help there. The other trick you can do in post, which can help in addition to stabilization on some clips is applying a bit of slowmo, as that can also help smooth things out. For me, I really love working in post as it gives me projects to do after the shooting is done. I get really bored when I don't have a project. This summer, besides spending 8 days shooting 3D in Cozumel, I'm planning on at least 4 Yosemite trips for a daytime and nighttime timelapse project. I'll be quite happy if I can get enough good content for at least a couple of months of post work. Regarding astro through a telescope, I used to do a bit of it back in the early 90s when I was using the moon composited into some magazine and poster projects I had going, but now its just through the camera lens.

 

On another note, if you get a GP4 Silver for your viewfinder, you will need to make a mounting platform for it. If you decide to go this route, let me know and I'll give you the specs for one which you can have made at your local plastic fab shop. Actually, as I recall, it's a piece of about 1/16th inch thick plastic which is 2" wide and is 2" at the top and 2 3/8" up the back with a 90 degree bend. I also cut a hole in it so I can see the flashing LED. It attaches to the Dual with Velcro and has a Gopro adhesive backed mount on the top. The thing to do is preaim it to coincide with the camera view. You can do this by using the live view in the phone app. Then, once aimed, tighten the mount nob tight. That way, every time you put it on, you won't have to readjust it.

 

Regarding the A7SII sensor, it really is hard to believe how far we've come. And, I'm with you in wondering where we'll be in 5 years!

 

Regards,

Barry

 

Hi Barry: Yes I know at times I should be more active editing, I usually just color correct to the best of my abilities and to the ambience of what time of day I shot the video. I never try to get total white balance right on........... if Im shooting in the late afternoon or early morning, its kind of like wiping out a great sunset photo. I used to really have to slave over color correction when I shot Sonys with a Red filter and getting crummy white balance. The Panasonic HMC-sdt750 I use now gets outstanding WB all the way down to 75ft with good viz and light and NO red filter with a F1.5 lens and shoots vivid sharp1080P60 !! So now I do a lot less. I also correct for Contrast and Brightness giving just a nudge positive (.07 )for contrast and (.05) negative for brightness in Sony Vegas Pro, that makes the video really pop, I usually shoot a tad over exposure so that I can pull out the shadow areas if needed. Thanks for explaining about the Mercalli 4, I will probably buy it I have jumpy 3D footage from the Gopros, probably will, I saw they have the Plugin for Edius and Vegas and also the standalone.Thats a neat trick about applying a bit of SloMo to smooth out the video also, I will have to try it, thanks for the tip!! Im going to try the 3d housing with a viewfinder to begin with and if thats a flop maybe go to GoPro Silver 4 after the next dive trip...............not even sure where we are going yet for the next dive trip and much less for the one after !!! Thats great that you are doing so many different types of photography, you really have varied interests. I shot UW photography for about 15 years and then got into video the last 6 years to capture the Few remaining good reefs that are still there before everything gets turned into GREAT MACRO DIVESITES!!!!! Thanks for being so generous as to offering me your plans of the Silver camera adaptation that you have fabricated, thats rare that you find someone that takes as much time as you have to help others, especially is such an in-depth way as you have. Cheers, Steve N.

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Yep, when it comes to stability in the water, its all about weight & mass. Actually, if you have sufficient mass, the weight is less crucial. On land, for hand held, weight is definitely important. That being said, I recall you saying that you don't like to do a lot of work in post. I would urge you to rethink this and really make friends with your NLE :) While shooting good content is indeed half the story, effective editing in post along with taking advantage of the amazing tools that are out there, is the other half. For instance, when it comes to stabilization, there is some absolutely AMAZING software out there. While I always try to be as careful as possible with the initial handheld shooting, its the post software fine tuning which really gets it over the top in many cases. There is a short 3D skiing video on my channel where I was testing the Dual helmet mounted. You can well imagine what the vibrations were like. I ran the clips through Mercalli V4 Sal which was nothing short of miraculous. My NLE, Edius, also has a good stabilizer, but sometimes, for the really heavy lifting, Mercalli 4 is the ticket! It will take a somewhat shaky hand held pan and often turn it smooth as butter. And for vibrations, it just kills them. It's available as a stand alone app and also a plugin for Edius. The advantage to the plugin is that it will process the paired clips, whereas with the stand alone version, you have to run the left and right through separately. Of course, the main thing to avoid is jerky movements, since there is nothing that will help there. The other trick you can do in post, which can help in addition to stabilization on some clips is applying a bit of slowmo, as that can also help smooth things out. For me, I really love working in post as it gives me projects to do after the shooting is done. I get really bored when I don't have a project. This summer, besides spending 8 days shooting 3D in Cozumel, I'm planning on at least 4 Yosemite trips for a daytime and nighttime timelapse project. I'll be quite happy if I can get enough good content for at least a couple of months of post work. Regarding astro through a telescope, I used to do a bit of it back in the early 90s when I was using the moon composited into some magazine and poster projects I had going, but now its just through the camera lens.

 

On another note, if you get a GP4 Silver for your viewfinder, you will need to make a mounting platform for it. If you decide to go this route, let me know and I'll give you the specs for one which you can have made at your local plastic fab shop. Actually, as I recall, it's a piece of about 1/16th inch thick plastic which is 2" wide and is 2" at the top and 2 3/8" up the back with a 90 degree bend. I also cut a hole in it so I can see the flashing LED. It attaches to the Dual with Velcro and has a Gopro adhesive backed mount on the top. The thing to do is preaim it to coincide with the camera view. You can do this by using the live view in the phone app. Then, once aimed, tighten the mount nob tight. That way, every time you put it on, you won't have to readjust it.

 

Regarding the A7SII sensor, it really is hard to believe how far we've come. And, I'm with you in wondering where we'll be in 5 years!

 

Regards,

Barry

Hey Barry.

Can I take you up on your idea sharing of a mount to add a hero 4 silver to the dual housing. I got a 3d printer and thought that might do the trick.

Edited by hellhole

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Hey Barry.

Can I take you up on your idea sharing of a mount to add a hero 4 silver to the dual housing. I got a 3d printer and thought that might do the trick.

Go for it! Just one slight correction on the dimensions I previously provided. It is actually 2 inches wide x 2 1/4 inches up the back x 2 inches over the top with a 90 degree bend between the back and the top. The 2" at the top is perfect for placing a Gopro adhesive mount which will allow for the adjustment of the GP4 Silver's viewfinder to coincide with the view from your GP Dual. After you make it, just go to Home Depot or elsewhere and buy some wide Velcro to put on the inside of your mount and the backside of the Dual. I also put a couple of small Velcro tabs on the top as well, for further stability.

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Here are a couple pictures. The camera is currently in an open frame but can be just as easily put in an underwater housing on the mount. The back inside has Velcro which attaches to the corresponding piece on the back of the Dual. The hole in the back is so that I can see the flashing LED which is on when the camera is filming.

post-50522-0-17558500-1468206678_thumb.jpg

post-50522-0-97932800-1468206687_thumb.jpg

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Ah... I get it...

Mounted in top of the dual... When I need to remove the cameras from dual... I take it off with the Velcro attached...

 

Okay. I will some measurements... I intend to mount the whole thing on a tray.. Maybe I find another way of doing it...

Edited by hellhole

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Also keep in mind, as I mentioned in a previous post, I would strongly recommend a stabilization solution and not just using the Dual stand alone without a stabilizer of some kind.

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