Jump to content
dfein

Any experience with the Sony A72 or A7r2?

Recommended Posts

It seems like these are the cameras to get if you want to go mirrorless and be able to take great stills and video. It seems that they blow the Lumix GH4 out of the water for stills because of the full frame sensor. Any experiences?

post-51807-0-39952400-1440403220_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nauticam NA-A7II housings now support both the A7 II and A7R II camera bodies. All housings going forward from serial number A151096 will have the upgrade to support the A7R II mode dial and past housings can be upgraded. I received my housing yesterday ‪#‎A151098‬ with the upgrade installed. Nothing about the housing has changed other than the mode dial upgrade. Photos attached.

 

My Sony A7 II/ Nauticam NA-A7II review should be posting on 1 Sept. in the Sept/Oct issue of uwpmag.com, this is a free PDF download.

post-2618-0-21095500-1440522293_thumb.jpg

post-2618-0-05687200-1440522306_thumb.jpg

post-2618-0-43421700-1440522322_thumb.jpg

post-2618-0-59723300-1440522334_thumb.jpg

Edited by Phil Rudin
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great, did you attach the pdf to the article? A big problem I have been seeing is the quality of the color compared to canon, and I heard that the video is poor with the a7 markii and a7r mark ii. Thanks for the pictures.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Consider battery life when choosing as it's the main draw back of mirrorless systems. I have a Canon 700D in a Nauticam which will easily last 3 long dives when on a dive holiday. I also have an EM1 and EM10 in Nauticam which only last 2 to 2.5 dives and that is being conservative on first 2 dives. Of course you can change batteries between dives but it means opening housing on the boat or beach, cleaning seals etc. not so much a problem with vacuum valve (must have) but inconvenient at best. The EM1 only saves 1.3kg over the Canon with lens, port, ball mounts etc and when you factor in arms , clamps, lights and strobes the weight saving is minor. (7.3kg vs 6kg all up). The Sonys use full size full frame lenses and have the worst battery life 300 shots normal use, the EM1 about 330, GH4 quotes 500. A Canon 7Dmk 2 gives around 800 and some Nikons 1000 shots.

Unless you need 4k then the Canon 7D mk2 and 70D have best focus especially in video. Check out Cameralabs.com for comparative reviews (non diving). He also tests battery lives on his reviews.

I love the OMDs but they have draw backs especially when underwater.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thanks so much for the post. Its interesting to me that mirrorless are so highly recommended for underwater photo/video, because, to me, the colors are looking so much better than anything I am seeing online from a mirrorless. Am I wrong? Any comments? That, coupled with the battery life issues, and the lower resolution of the gh4 images, makes it seem that for underwater getting a canon is a no brainer. especially because i will be doing a lot of natural light diving where i would need a good whitebalance. Im looking at the 6d for its wifi, and full frame sensor. But since I will be doing video as well, is the autofocus a serious issue? any experiences or suggestions would be appreciated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The dilema is big and can't find the answer.

I am mving from Sony Full Frame DSLR (Alpha 850) to the Sony A7ii or Sony A7Rii.

I will no more use my A-Mount lenses, as I will also move to the E-Mount (90 macro, 16-35 and 28 with the 16 mm converter).

So, the question : is it worth to spend 2,000 US$ more for the A7Rii or the A7ii is already the best deal ?

What would bring me UNDERWATER the A7Rii that the A7ii won't?

 

Eric

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The A7R II has raised the bar for mirrorless cameras and is well worth the price. All else will being equal regarding the system cost, housing, ports, gears, etc. You can always have the A7R II and the A7 II as your backup as they will both work in the Same Nauticam NA-A7II housing.

Edited by Phil Rudin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The A7R II has raised the bar for mirrorless cameras and is well worth the price. All else will be equal regarding the system cost, housing, ports, gears, etc. You can always have the A7R II and the A7 II as your backup as they will both work in the Same Nauticam NA-A7II housing.

Phil

Thanks again for your contribution. I really liked your review in UWPMag.

However, I am sorry, but my question remains : in an "Underwater Usage" perspective, what would bring the A7Rii that won't bring the A7ii? (again I am not planning to use any A-mount lens bur FE E-mount only)

Thanks.

Eric

 

Sent from my K00C using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Eric,

 

If you have looked at sites like DXO marks, DPreview or whatever trusted source you may consult the vast majority are heaping praise on the new A7R II as the best mirrorless camera made to date and front runner for camera of the year.

 

From my perspective the features that make this an outstanding camera like fast AF, more focus points, better video, higher resolution & dynamic range, huge electronic viewfinder, excellent lenses and much more all apply to underwater use.

 

For me comparing a $3200.00 camera to an $1800.00 camera retail is just not apples to apples since price point will ultimately be the deciding factor for most. It would make more sense to me to be comparing the A7R II to cameras like the Canon 5Dsr, 5D MKIII or Nikon D810 which will be A7RII's main competition.

 

Ultimately getting such a high quality 42MP full frame camera (now DOX's highest rated sensor camera) at a $3200.00 price point will be a value for many and others who don't care about such things will be perfectly happy with the A7 II at 24MP, both cameras have much to offer.

Edited by Phil Rudin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Phil,

 

Since yesterday i have my Nauticam NA-A7ii housing! Tomorrow i will make the first dive with it!

 

I have some questions to you or other owners of an NA-Aii housing:

 

- Is your LCD to VF switch working perfect?

I can switch from the LCD to the VF but not back, if i switch from the VF back to the LCD, the LCD remains dark. I have to turn off the camera so that the display runs again. At the moment i have set the FINDER/MONITOR SEL to a custom button, but this works only with the A7rII not with the A7II

 

- What lenght of the Nauticam float arms you use on your setup with the 90mm Macro (on your pictures in the NEX Macro Option post)?

 

Thanks for your answers and a nice day from Switzerland,

 

Tino

Edited by tdphoto

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Although I agree that the current Sony cameras, really are showing up everyone else in terms of picture quality.

 

Even thou they are Mirrorless - they are still FullFrame, so with that, you are not getting the benefits (if you call them that) of a mirrorless camera, not talking camera body (as the Sony is smaller than the GH4), but in terms of lens size, housing size, port sizes...etc

 

But boy, those Sony's are packing some serious performance!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You pay for the performances with battery life. I have a Canon DSLR and 2 OMD cameras. The main draw back is only around 250 photos from the OMD's which is less than 3 dives a day which we do on our diving holidays. The Canon would easily last 3+ dives. The review of the A7r2 on Cameralabs.com he only got an average of 100 photos on a charge and that was on land. Obviously he could change batteries or charge over USB but underwater I take more than a hundred pics on a single shallow dive. Opening housing, changing batteries, cleaning seals and redoing vacuum seal are an option but if you are on a triple boat dive with 20 other people on the boat do you really want to open up after every dive? I am considering upgrading my Canon 700D and sticking to DSLRs rather than mirrorless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tino

 

The EVF/LCD control is just a mask that covers the EVF when you want to use the LCD. If your camera switches from LCD to EVF when you raise it to your eye above water it should do the same thing when you move the control underwater.

 

The Nauticam float arms in the photo are ten inch.

 

Griff

 

Battery life is an issue with all mirrorless cameras v. DSLR due to the smaller batteries and power eating features like the EVF and 5-axis image stabilization, everything in photography is a tradeoff. With the Sony A7 II and A7R II using the Nauticam housing fiber optic strobes are triggered by an optional flash trigger which draws no battery power from the camera unlike other mirrorless designs. Which lenses you are using also greatly influenses battery drain. I am getting over 200 images with the 90mm macro and twice that with the 16-35mm zoom. I turn off IS with the macro because the strobe is freezing the action at higher shutter speeds (!/60th to 1/250th).

 

I think the issue for most buyers will remain price point and those features they can't live without in a camera system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

200 is good as I get around 230 to 250 with the EM1. I will turn off the IS underwater when shooting macro. I do have the flash on manual on 1/64 th power and I always use the EVF not the LCD screen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Phil - many thanks for a very useful and thorough review. Much appreciated.

 

The point you and Griff make on battery life causes, for me anyway, a real pause for thought.

 

I had wondered whether a move to something like the Sony might be my next iteration - in an attempt to shed some of the travel weight with a D800 system. But if the Sony-type lenses are essentially FX size/weight, the camera is only slightly less weighty - and battery life is significantly less (like many, I reckon on 3-4 dives a day and with the D800 there is no need to change batteries at this intensity of diving/photographing), there doesn't seem an awful lot of point.

 

But, of course, all this might change as Sony - and others - no doubt improve yet further.

 

Really interesting discussion. Thanks guys.

Edited by TimG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I dont usually post on the forums ,however after reading Phil Rudins recent report on the Sony A711 in U.P.W 86 I couldnt help posting this.I have a Sony A7 (not theA711),but I find it difficult to believe there could be THAT much difference in the focusing ability of the two cameras.I was very disappointed in the low light focusing ability of the A7 with the Sony 90 mm macro lens-actually on a mandarin night dive using a red focus light,I could hardly achieve focus at all-albeit I did not use the range limiter(never do).I had no problems in similar scenarios in the past with my DSLR(D3S).In good light the 90 mm focused 'ok',but certainly not fast.Also Phil did not comment on the battery life of the A711(with its added battery drain of in camera stabilization and enhanced EVF)I have found the battery life of my A7 to be not poor but-pathetic-I was lucky to get 2 full dives out of a battery,and actually started changing the battery after every dive.I cant imagine how poor the battery life of the A7R11 must be-likely a 'game ender' for me! It is truly a shame, in my opinion ,that Sony just cant seem to get things right in a timely fashion.

For those of you out there thinking that this mirrorless camera can replace their DSLR- forget it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dear DKS

Thanks a lot for this contribution as it is really helpful although it brings more confusion now.

I am a long time DSLR user (full frame Sony Alpha, 850) and I am considering the new A7Rii in a Nauticam housing. The main reason? I realize I can save up to 4 kilos when flying... And it seems, without compromise on image quality.

Looking at the tech spec, I believe A7 works with contrast detection, not known to be fast, when the new A7Rii brings 390 points for phase detection. This shall be the key for fast AF

 

 

Sent from my SM-G850F using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I own a Sony A7 but do not use it for underwater (I have already invested in a Sony A65 inside an Ikelite housing and can't afford switching in the coming years I'm afraid) I am following information about lens/port availability and general functionality regarding underwater usage very frequent.

 

I was always quite happy with battery life when using my A7. I noticed that when using the 16-35/4 it drained faster due to IS; when using old Minolta MD/MC lenses battery life was very good, even compared to A-mount cameras which have a larger battery. So I think using a full frame E-mount camera with sensor stabilization and optical stabilizer (e.g. Sony A7ii or A7Rii with 16-35/4) will drain your battery very fast. This means that you have to change your battery after every dive which is always a very unpleasant thing to do (at least for me) and increases the risk of flooding your housing.

 

I hope Sony will improve the battery life by either reducing energy consumption or providing bigger batteries (which will increase weight) or same-sized batteries with increased mAh.

 

But I noticed on the images of the first post in this thread that there seems to be some space left beside the camera body inside the housing. So I am wondering if it would be possible to use a battery dummy which is connected to an external battery? This requires an external battery which fits in the housing (and provides more power than a standard battery obviously) and the possibility to run a cable from the battery slot to the external battery.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Regarding D.K.S. comments over battery life what I said in the article is that "battery life is an issue with ALL mirrorless cameras compared to DSLR's without EVF"". Other things that drain power include 5-axis image stabilization, live view LCD, choice of lenses and more. I have used many, mirrorless cameras including the A7R II and I don't find the Sony brand to differ much from other mirrorless cameras with like features. We all know that DSLR's have better battery life because they don't have any of the features that draw on the battery in the same way and because they are for the most part much larger bodies they can have much larger batteries.

 

With the FE 16-35mm F/4 lens using IS battery drain is less of a problem than with a macro lens. Regarding low light ability the shot inside the cavern opening at Gennie Springs was taken without a focus light and the focus on the dark cavern walls was tack sharp.

 

I agree that the 90mm lens is more of a challenge to focus than the zoom lens but then all macros are. I don't use the image stabilization shooting macro because most macro is heavily strobe lighted and the IS does not add much value during the 1/1000th or so time that the strobe takes to light the subject. And yes I could name other macro lenses in the same focal range that are faster but none that focus more accurately and have better overall image quality.

 

As I said in the article the Sony A7 line is a three year work in progress and if you compare those three years improvements to three years in the DSLR world the tech differences are obvious. Everything in photography is a tradeoff and if the feature set of the Sony A7 line is not of interest and total MP's is then a DSLR should be a no brainer. On the other hand if you are looking for a high end mirrorless camera with all of the benefits not found in DSLR's then the A7 II,R,S for video line are well worth a look.

 

To me the biggest to the A7 line underwater is lack of FE (native mirrorless) lenses and this issue is also being address by Sony with eight new FE lenses to be released by early 2016, I hope one is a fisheye.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dear lambee01,

According to my research both the A7 and the A711 have "fast hybrid autofocus" with 117 phase detection pts and 25 contrast detection pts.-the A7r11 specs state 399 phase detection,and 25 contrast detection pts.Mabey Sony have finally got their "3 yr. work in progress" partially sorted out at 3200.00 U.S. a pop.I will look forward to feedback from users in future.I still think battery life is pathetic,and may indeed be unacceptable in the A7r11,to a large percentage of underwater users-Sony needs to come up with a solution for this in the A7 line.

Thank you Phil for your helpfull suggestions/strategies to help improve battery life and my autofocus attempts.On my recent trip to Yap I thought I tried every concievable focus menu option,but perhaps I have grown too accustomed to the fast,accurate low light autofocus of my D3S/60mm/105mm combo.You are of course correct in stating"everything in photography is a tradeoff",and the decreased size and weight of a mirrorless system are appealing-I would dearly love to love the A7-God knows Ive tried!(having spent approx. $10,000.00 on the system)CANADIAN$.At this point in time Im not sure what to hope for-That Sony will FINALLY get their COMPLETE act togeather,or,that Nikon will come up with a very small full featured DSLR -either way-buyer beware!

Ken.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ken, Be aware that many of the products I review are not ones that I own which was the case at the time with the A7 II review. I also never owned or tested A7 so it wouldn't be my place to make comparisons however several non diving reviewers who I have some faith in have said that the A7 II is faster. Faster is a term which is hard to pin down and relates to lens choice and a number of other issues but I agree that some DSLR's are faster and some are not.

 

The last point is that Canon 6D full frame is the only camera at the same retail price point as A7 II and while you can find other discounted FF cameras which are now a year or two old, A7 II gives you a lot of image quality for the buck. I now own one with a battery grip which holds two batteries for my out of water travel and walk around camera.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My wife just purchased the Nauticam housing for the Sony A7r2 and she is wondering if there is a specific synch cord she will need to hook up her Ikelite DS-161's. The housing has the typical Nikons bulkhead. FYI she is making this big step up from her film Nikon F-100 in a Seacam housing, and I I wonder if she can use her old synch cords. We imagine she will have to shoot the strobes manual as we don't believe there is such a thing as a iTTL adaptor for a Sony camera.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am shooting with fiber optic cords using the Nauticam flash trigger which is manual with my Inon Z-240 strobes. My housing also has the Nikonos style bulkhead and it can be used in manual with cords for Ikelite like the attached link I believe, you should consult your retailer for specs.

 

http://reefphoto.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=135_68_49&products_id=294

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This has been a really useful debate, thank you all. I currently have a NEX6 which I have been wanting to upgrade for some time; and given the series of delays in announcing the A6000 replacement, I am now seriously looking at the full frame option. So if I were to agree (which I don't) with DKO's view of Sony's inability to get things right, it would be over that delay issue.

 

The cost of the A7Rii frankly scares me, as does the thought of trying to justify it to my long suffering (non diving) wife, and so I am encouraged by the views expressed in this debate about the A7ii. My list of "wants" includes size/weight, fast autofocus, and fast flash sync speed, and the A7ii looks like it does all of those.

 

As to stabilisation (and associated battery issues), I have never been persuaded of its merits for underwater photography, and I expect I would turn it off all the time. I see the comments about the 16-35 benefiting from stabilisation, but the equivalent 10-18 (which also has OSS) is actually my least used lens on the NEX6, and so I don't think stabilisation would be a huge issue for me. My most used is the 16mm with fisheye converter, which has always served me well, with no significant corner-sharpness issues - so I feel safe to assume that the 28mm plus converter would do just as well. It would be nice to try the Canon fisheye zoom, but the added port size/weight would be a deal breaker for me.

 

After the fisheye, my next-most used lens is the 50mm Zeiss macro, which I have not found to be ideal for underwater use: it tends to hunt on occasion, and won't take the SMC (so Alex T tells me). So the 90mm macro is a real selling point for the A7, and from reviews (including Phil's), it seems to be a cracker.

 

Thanks again for all the helpful comments, even though I'm a late joiner to this thread.

Edited by JustinBeevor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The NEX6 is quite a strong baseline, if you want to see a significant leap in image and video quality, it will mean a larger investment.

DXMark says: The A7II gives ~+2/3F-stop advantage over the NEX, the A7rII around 2 in the critical ISO>1600 range.

 

Viable alternative could be the A7s, however it is more expensive than the A7r and you have to get a new housing in case you upgrade.

 

To the battery life story: the housing manufacturers should allow some place for a grip, I never change batteries on a zodiac...

 

This has been a really useful debate, thank you all. I currently have a NEX6 which I have been wanting to upgrade for some time; and given the series of delays in announcing the A6000 replacement, I am now seriously looking at the full frame option. So if I were to agree (which I don't) with DKO's view of Sony's inability to get things right, it would be over that delay issue.

The cost of the A7Rii frankly scares me, as does the thought of trying to justify it to my long suffering (non diving) wife, and so I am encouraged by the views expressed in this debate about the A7ii. My list of "wants" includes size/weight, fast autofocus, and fast flash sync speed, and the A7ii looks like it does all of those.

As to stabilisation (and associated battery issues), I have never been persuaded of its merits for underwater photography, and I expect I would turn it off all the time. I see the comments about the 16-35 benefiting from stabilisation, but the equivalent 10-18 (which also has OSS) is actually my least used lens on the NEX6, and so I don't think stabilisation would be a huge issue for me. My most used is the 16mm with fisheye converter, which has always served me well, with no significant corner-sharpness issues - so I feel safe to assume that the 28mm plus converter would do just as well. It would be nice to try the Canon fisheye zoom, but the added port size/weight would be a deal breaker for me.

After the fisheye, my next-most used lens is the 50mm Zeiss macro, which I have not found to be ideal for underwater use: it tends to hunt on occasion, and won't take the SMC (so Alex T tells me). So the 90mm macro is a real selling point for the A7, and from reviews (including Phil's), it seems to be a cracker.

Thanks again for all the helpful comments, even though I'm a late joiner to this thread.

post-38905-0-76047100-1445385818_thumb.png

Edited by tamas970

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sponsors

Advertisements



×
×
  • Create New...