Decided on a new micro 4/3 setup now need help deciding on which camera?

[kstokell 4]

Hi All, after a lot of research and a great deal of help from a lot of people, many of them on this site, I have decided to upgrade from my RX100 rig to a new MFT setup.

 

Now my challenge is which camera to invest in, and which lenses to start out with?

 

Firstly I should say that my prime concern is macro photography (although the occasional wide shot is nice, not super wide) , and that I live in Curacao in the southern Caribbean so visibility and sunlight are usually in abundance?

 

I have decided on a Nauticam housing and I've narrowed down the camera choices to the following (unless someone has a better idea):

 

- OMD EM-1

- OMD EM-5 mk2

- GX8

- or wait for the replacement EM-1 (when will it be released, how long before a housing is available?)

 

With regards to lenses I have been looking at the following options:

 

- Olympus 12-50mm f3.5-6.3, with my current +7 diopter (plus maybe an adapter, or another diopter)

- Olympus 12-50mm f3.5-6.3, and Olympus 60mm f/2.8 (I think these lenses can both fit in the Nauticam Macro Port 65, but not sure about zoom and focus control

- Olympus 60mm f/2.8, and a wide angle lens (one that does not require a dome port)

- any other suggestions?

 

Lots of questions I know, but I hope you guys with all your experience can help me out?

 

Thanks Kevin

 

[thetrickster 328]

Definitely go Olympus (that's coming from a GH4 owner!) the IBIS is worth it.

 

You are at an interesting time to be honest. The EM-1 has been around for a while and you would expect Olympus to have something out soon. But how soon depends on how quickly you want to start shooting. As with any camera. There will also be a better one at some point. I possibly wouldn't get the E-M1 at this time.

 

If macro is your thing. The 60mm is a must.

 

Other points to look at is the flash sync. Is it 1/250, 1/320 or even 1/500? As this will effect your ability to get those in fashion blacked out shots

(Higher the better)

 

Apart from the camera and ports. Do you have decent strobes? A uw tripod?

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited January 23, 2016 by thetrickster

[bmorescuba 20]

I'll let others debate the bodies, but I can't say enough good things about the Olympus 60mm macro lens. As long as you can get used to the effective 120mm length and you understand that it's really only good for macro, and not even for med-large fish portraits, it's just a fantastic lens. Sharp, portable, relatively affordable. If you're going with Nauticam and interested in even smaller critters, the CMC add-on lens is also pretty fantastic. Takes lots of practice, but the resolving power is incredible.

 

When I was in your shoes the biggest thing I wished for was examples so I could judge for myself. This gallery was all the 60mm macro:

 

https://flic.kr/s/aHskoBDZZi

 

It was on an EM-10 body, Nauticam housing, one YS-D1 strobe. A few of the shots use the CMC. I'll probably only ever get to Anilao once in my life and I was very happy with the little EM-10 + 60mm.

[Wapiti 25]

Going off on a tangent: I shot the 12-50 for a while with my E-M1, but switched last summer to the 12-40 pro. The improvement in image quality is definitely worth the price difference, and I'm a tightwad. It focuses very close, and cropping it will give you a narrower field of view with better quality than the 12-50. If you're at all planning on using your camera topside, the gains are even more significant. Sorry about spending your money for you, but I've been down this path- you're going to want the 12-40.

 

I also have the 60, and agree that it's a great lens.

[davephdv 0]

I have two GX7's, but I have to say the GX8 appears to be in a class by itself compared to the best other 4/3rds cameras.

[BengalBoy 2]

There will always be a better camera no matter what you buy. When I got my E-M1 I was satisfied that it was the best choice out there as I moved from my decade of using a Nikon, to the travel friendly 4/3 format. A few months later the E-M5ii came out and I felt cheated. LoL! Thankfully, my E-M1 has had continued updates since I bought mine about a year after its release including special exposure setting & white balance for underwater use. Its recent 4.0 update added many new features and improved image stabilization for its video capture. I am very excited to say its like getting a new camera. However, if you would rather wait on the rumored E-M1ii and a new 20 megapixel sensor,, it looks like September will be the release date. That's along time to wait if you have the money to go dive now. No idea if you'll have to get a new Nauticam or not, but, hopefully Olympus will leave the case and buttons alone as they are near perfection. However, the new E-M5ii got a redo of its controls to more approximate the controls of the E-M1 than the smaller old controls of the E-M5. Its case stayed the same dimensions I believe.

Edited January 24, 2016 by BengalBoy

[Griff 23]

If video and pictures are a priority then get the GX8. I have an EM1 and my wife an EM10 both in Nauticam housings. I recently bought a Panasonic G7 for top side use, just for 4K video, 4K photo feature including Post Focus and full HD and 4K time lapses at 25 FPS as Olympus only do them at 10-15 HD and 5 FPS at 4K in camera.

The GX8 has all these features, 20M sensor and IBIS. To stabilise 4K video it only uses the Panasonic lens IS. It is the most feature packed MFT camera but if stills are priority then the EM1 is excellent too with 1/320 flash sync, others are 1/250.

The 60mm is my go to lens but if you want macro video at 4K use either of the Panasonic macro lenses which have IS. Both companies have 8mm fish eyes and 7-14 wides but make sure the housing brand you buy supports them all. I would get an aluminum housing that has a vacuum system. I never dive without a vacuum now.

[troporobo 244]

I'm a very happy user of an Olympus E-M5 with the 12-50 and 60 lenses (underwater) and a few other lenses on land. My thoughts:

 

The 60 macro lens really is as good as everyone says. With the 2x crop factor it may be all you need for macro unless going for very small (i.e. less than 5mm) stuff.

 

The 12-50 lens with the 43 macro setting is a great all rounder. You can put it in the same macro port and get decent semi-wide shots and decent macro. It is a compromise at both ends of course, but perfectly serviceable if you want to carry only one lens and one port. I did that for a few years and got a lot of shots I am very happy with.

 

Both of these lenses can make very good use of wet diopters. I like my Subsee +5 and +10, the Nauticam CMC might be even better. Look up my lens comparisons and those by Phil Rudin to get an idea.

 

By the way, you can't beat the Olympus IBIS. I shot a safari with the 75-300 zoom, hand held in low light at the long end at moderate ISO, and got very sharp results. That kind of stabilisation is more than adequate under water. That alone would keep me in the Olympus camp, although i don't shoot video, which might put some people over in the Panasonic camp depending on priorities for higher resolution and better C-AF etc.

 

If I was buying today, I would buy the 60 and the 7-14 lenses. If I could buy only one lens it would be the 12-50 plus a diopter. As for bodies, all are very good at their prices. I'd get the E-M1 for the better focusing systems. In fact I am holding out for the E-M1 Mk 2 which should be announced in September but available in early 2017 and housings probably later in 2017 - a long time to wait but I'm happy with my current setup so can use the extra time to save and make the business case to Management!

[kstokell 4]

Thanks for all the feedback!

 

For the camera I'm leaning towards the GX8 as it seems to have as good quality to the OM models and the extra pixel count gives a little more room for post shot cropping!

 

With regards to lenses I'm a little less certain, ideally I would like to do fish portraits and macro work on the same dive, so the 12-50 lens with a flip diopter would seem best for that, however I'm worried the quality would fall far short of the dedicated 60mm lens, does anyone have any comparison experience between these choices? Also can the 60mm lens share the same Nuaticam port as the 12-50, if this was the case I could always get the 60mm at a later date if required?

 

One last question, does anyone know what the widest angle lens is available for the micro 4/3 setup that sits behind a flat port, as I really don't want to use a dome?

 

Currently I'm using a single YS-D1 strobe and an Ikellite Vega video light, but will probably add a second YS-D1 strobe when I upgrade.

 

Thanks again for all the help so far!

[troporobo 244]

Here's a very quick comparison, using the first shots I could grab that had a similar subject. All are straight out of the camera with no crop. The first is with the 12-50 lens at its 43 macro setting:

 

 

 

The second is with the 60 macro lens:

 

 

And this one to show how much greater magnification is possible with the 60 macro lens (shallow DoF intentional here):

 

[Wapiti 25]

To OP- the Olympus 9-18 (the widest autofocus rectilinear lens in the M43 system) will work in a flat port, as long as you don't have anything important in the corners. It works better in a small dome, which doesn't take up much more room than a flat port. I shot with the Zen small dome on my Olympus E-M1 housing, and could also use the 60mm but not the 12-50.

[BengalBoy 2]

The comparison images of the 12-50 vs. the 60mm Macro are quite good!! Very powerful way of showing just how much better the 60mm Macro really is.. Excellent Shots Troporobo!!

[bear35 11]

My opinion would be go for an EM1 with 60mm for macro.

You have mentioned a 12-50, I would go for the 12-40 pro every day of the week. You will need a dome port for this lens, but the quality is great.

[troporobo 244]

The 12-40 is a better lens, for sure. But it is not a better all-round lens that can shoot macro, which was the original question.

 

Actually when I was using the 12-50 lens I found that I almost always used it at 12mm for wide "establishing" shots or the occasional almost-CFWA, but then switched to 43mm macro for most of a dive. There's not much need for the longer end of the range except for macro and its not quite wide enough for great WA. Though it is serviceable. There's lots of examples in the monster E-M5 thread.

 

I would buy the 12-40 for shooting above water, for sure. But UW calls for something wider (the 7-14) and/or something longer (the 60). I could be very happy with only those two lenses.

[Wapiti 25]

I don't know if Nauticam has a flat port for the 12-40, but I use a swing away macro lens holder on my Oly flat port for low viz or dedicated macro dives. The close focus ability of this lens is underrated- getting the strobes in close enough is the tough part- but you can in fact shoot with a diopter. That said, I typically shoot with a 170mm Inon glass dome because of it's decent wide angle performance.

[troporobo 244]

I'd be really interested to see some actual tests of that lens with diopters. I compared the 12-50 with diopter at 50mm vs. macro mode at 43mm:

 

http://wetpixel.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=56141

 

Maybe the 12-40 does indeed focus closer and would be more usable with diopters?

[kstokell 4]

Thanks troporobo for the 12-50 vs 60mm comparison shots, seems to me that the 60mm is of course better but the 12-50 in 43mm macro mode is not bad.

 

Can you tell me how the the maximum working distance from the end of the lens to the subject compares on these two lenses?

 

Also I have a "Bluewater +7 Macro Lens", can this be used with both lenses and how will it affect magnification and maximum working distance?

 

Thanks again,

Kevin

[troporobo 244]

I agree, the 12-50 lens in 43mm macro mode is pretty good. I eventually switched to the 60 lens because I regularly have great opportunities to shoot really small stuff (pygmies, xenias, anemone shrimp, etc).

 

I assume you are interested in minimum working distance, as the maximum is of course infinity. The table in my comparison shows the minimum distance from the front of the port.

 

I found when testing other wet diopters that the results varied widely even for those with the same nominal power. so you really need to test the combination.

[BengalBoy 2]

Just for information requested in above thread, I have the Nauticam 7" Dome Port for the 12-40mm Pro lens. It will be my lens for large marine life *sharks, mantas, turtles, etc* and wide angle. I also was excited to get the port for creative over/under shots. In researching the ports that can be used with this lens its a very short list, including Zen domes with extensions. I never discovered a flat lens port for this lens. I don't believe one exits. The lens itself is too large in diameter for the flat ports unless something new has come out in the last few months for it.

[kstokell 4]

It seems there are two new cameras I need to add to my list the Olympus PEN-F and the Sony A6300. I know the A6300 has a APS-C sensor, but it does look interesting, and teamed with the Sony 90mm Macro lens, should make a great macro shooting tool.

 

Any opinions on these two new additions, and how do you think the PEN-F with 60mm would stack up against the A6300 with 90mm?

 

Decisions, decisions thankfully I don't have to make up my mind until the end of April :-)!

[thetrickster 328]

I think the PEN-F would be a good choice now (barring the reviews coming through) along side the GX8, EM1, EM5 etc..

 

The A6300 looks impressive for the price - but where is the IBIS?, what a failure not to include it! I'm not sure I would buy a camera these days without it.

 

Did I read right its got Phase Detection AF? If so, thats gonna be nice for video.

 

I'm not sure on the range of lenses for there APS-C mount. The new lenses released yesterday, are huge and by the looks of it won't fit the Nauticam N80 port system - so unless there are good lenses already, it seems quite a restricted system.

 

Although you said you would be happy to wait till Apr - the housing manufacturers do take a bit of time to get housings out, after the initial camera release, I think the A6300 will be pretty quickly after, considering its very similar to the A6000, but the PEN could be a while....so that could influence you choices.

[kstokell 4]

From what I understand the Sony 90mm Macro lens has IS built in so IBIS in the A6300 is not really needed, my only concern about the A6300 90mm setup is the physical size. The PEN-F with either the 12-50mm (43mm macro) or 60mm macro would offer a much more compact setup, with a pixel advantage over the EM5 mk2.

 

Just have to wait and see if there is a decent housing available for it at the end of April.

[Griff 23]

The PEN-F has the same sensor as the Panasonic GX8 but does not do 4K. Even Nikon and Canon are finally doing 4K now but Olympus refuse to include it. The PEN-F is more than the GX8 including a lens also. I would look at the OMD cameras or the GX8 or GH4 if you need 4K.

[kstokell 4]

Thanks Griff, I'm not really to bothered about video I hardly ever shoot any at the moment, however that may change with a new camera. From what I've read is seems the PEN-F and GX8 may use the same Sony 20mp sensor but I've yet to see that confirmed.

 

The GX8 is very tempting and is definitely on my short-list!

[ChrisRoss 150]

Hi there, I'm shooting an OM-D Em-5 II in a nauitcam housing, using the 12-40mm lens in a Zen Dome. You need to fit the dome over the lens as it is to big to fit through the port extension when inserted from the back. I found you can fit camera and lens through the port opening without the port attached, but not with the port in place. It is a very tight fit. You also won't fit it through any separate extensions as they have the port locking mechanism inside, you need a port with built in extension. This shot was taken with the 12-40:

 

http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~chrisx2/images/GreenMoray.jpg

 

specs are 1/50 @ f6.3 ISO800. Natural light about 10m down. Shows the value of the in body stabilisation.

 

BTW if the the Pen F had a 20MP sensor (is that confirmed?) it is not going to give you any advantage for cropping over a 16MP sensor as the a 20 MP sensor goes into diffraction limit between f4 and f5.6 and most UW shots seem to be stopped down more than that like f8 plus. This is a physical limit meaning the lens can't provide finer detail unless it is wider open. Doesn't mean it is worse just there is no more resolution available for cropping even if there are pixels there.

 

Don't know how you plan to use the 60mm macro, AF or MF, but the OM-D series have lots of advantages. the EM-5 II has 4 programmable buttons (5 if you cont the video button) and customisable control dials and a switch to go between 2 modes on the dials so I have the following setup:

 

the video record button which is a lever at your thumb on the Nauticam housing is set to AEL/AFL so it does the focus and the shutter only takes the photo.

Front dial is exp compensation, rear dial is aperture. With the tray layout the rear dial is easier to get to than the front.

In position two rear dial is ISO and front dial white balance.

If you were to use MF for macro as AF can hunt a little I have heard with the 60mm you can set either Fn1 or video record to show focus peaking. These buttons are either side of the thumb grip.

I am buying the accessory trigger release which places the shutter release right at my index finger, allowing overall better control access.

 

I don't know if the Pen-F has all these features or not, the previous Pen models the AF was not up to the standard of theOM-D models as I recall.