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Diver4fun

Upgrading to Mirrorless

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Hello everyone,

 

After shooting a canon s100 for several years I think it's time for me to upgrade to a more capable camera.

I would like both serious macro/fish portrait and video capabilities, so I think I need to switch to a mirrorless system. But... the announced Nikon DL24-85 compact might be great too?

 

After some research I'm split between the panasonic Gx8 or Sony a6300, which is due to arrive next week. I know the Olympus camera's are superior for stills, but for some reason I prefer a good video.

However I'll be keeping my Ys-01 strobes so I'd like to be able to snap some pictures for a change.

So when looking at some pro's en cons for both camera's:

 

A6300

+Great video downscaled from 6k

+Compact body

+Bigger sensor, better low light, for ambient light shots and video, better dynamic range?

+fast Auto focus

 

-Slow flash sync(1/160)

-Only TTL flash (my biggest worry, slow flash reload)

-Lens options worse compared to 4/3

-No stabilization

 

Gx8

+Better flash sync, manual flash

+Better/smaller lens options,

 

- Smaller sensor

- No 4k stabilization either

- 4k cropped sensor

 

I still have a Inon 28m67 H100 + dome, can it be used for any mirrorless? I can't find much about it.

I cannot seem to find many mirrorless wide angle pics at all, isn't it worth it? I did find a nice a6000 macro gallery

https://www.flickr.com/photos/130621119@N05/, but I'm not sure if the Gx8 might be better.

 

Some help would be very appreciated.

Edited by Diver4fun

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The GX8 has the better lens selection and as the Sony's best lenses are shared with the A7 series i.e. 16-35 and 90 macro and they are big and heavy.

Most of the Panasonic lenses are stabilized and a lot of people are using the 14-42 mk2 OIS lens with the Nauticam WWL1 for video.

The MFT cameras, we have the Olympus EM1 and EM10 in Nauticam housings and the Panasonic G7 for topside 4K video and time lapses, are not great for video auto focus especially for macro where you need S-AF and refocus by the shutter during the video or use a MF adaptor. The best cameras by far for video are the Dual Pixel Canons such as 70D, 80D ( new but no 4K), 7D Mk2 and the 1D X mk2 (4K but lots of $$)

The Sony's have phase detect points for focusing, are better than MTF (video focus) but not as good as the Canon's.

Finally, said many times before, the biggest draw back of ALL mirror less cameras is the poor battery life. Doing a lot of video as well as photos means opening up your housing between dives to change the battery. It's that bad especially on dive holidays where you are doing 3-4 dives a day I will take my old Canon 700D with me as this lasts longer than my rechargeable strobe batteries!

Edited by Griff

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So the sony 10-18 + domeport won't do the job? Or the Zeiss touit 50mm for macro? Quite expensive, I know, but not as expensive as a canon :)

 

The a6300 just looks quite attractive as a allround camera... I'm used to low battery life of my S100 so that shouldn't be the biggest issue for me.

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So the sony 10-18 + domeport won't do the job? Or the Zeiss touit 50mm for macro? Quite expensive, I know, but not as expensive as a canon :)

 

The a6300 just looks quite attractive as a allround camera... I'm used to low battery life of my S100 so that shouldn't be the biggest issue for me.

 

For me the two biggest factors in choosing between an APS-C and micro 4/3 based system was the size and choice of lenses. I want to primarily shoot macro and the best lens for the A6300 would be the Sony 90mm, and when you compare both the size and cost of that lens with the Olympus 60mm then I think you will see why I went for the micro 4/3 option. I am moving from an RX100 rig up to a micro 4/3 rig and that is already a big step up in size, and I think to go even bigger would be to much too me.

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I was comparing the relative size of the Sony APSC and full frame lenses to the MFT lenses which really are small. Don't get me wrong I love my Olympus cameras but the battery life is a problem. My first dive trips with them, the batteries died early into the third dive of the day (spare batteries are essential purchase). Even with spares changing them on a beach or boat is not ideal. By the way the Panasonic GH4 is rated with 500 photos verses 330 for the EM1. I get 250 plus a few mins of video with mine so the Pany would be good for 400+ and even with shooting a lot of video still will outlast all other Mirrorless cameras.

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What about body size? It is what initially put me off from considering the GH4, I'll be travelling/flying quite a lot. The a6300 will still be a lot bigger than my s100, but not quite as big as a GH4?

Wide angle lens weight for MFT and APSC looks pretty similar to me, macro is indeed worse. Maybe stick with the kit lens initially?

Battery life doesn't seem to be too bad at 400 shots...

Edited by Diver4fun

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I shoot the Zeiss Touit 50mm on a Sony 6000 and find it to be a superb lens for macro.

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I'm just going through a NEX6 to A6300 upgrade, and so am rather biased. There's a few shots on my Flickr feed (https://www.flickr.com/photos/justinbeevor) with the 50mm Touit and the 10-18 zoom ... although nothing underwater since last September. Check the Cayman and Bonaire/Aruba and Aliwal galleries.

 

The problem with the Touit is that its operating range is very close, and gets even closer if you diopter it. With the Subsee +10 we're talking probably 40mm; and I haven't even tried the SMC as the compatibility charts show it goes down to 10mm. I've also found it to hunt for focus on the NEX, but I have never been able to work out what triggers the hunting. So I'm upgrading to the 90mm too (thank god for interest-free finance).

 

I'm going to stick with the 10-18, though, at least for the time being. Its zoom range is very usable, both above and underwater, and I do like the perspective stretch effects you can get with rectilinear. But I prefer fixed-length to zoom (the additional zoom control is distracting) and the dome port is massive and very floaty - although very good for splits. So I reckon the WWL could be an interesting alternative and look forward to giving it a go - I would use the Sigma 19mm in preference to the utterly miserable Sony 16-50mm.

 

 

Justin Beevor

www.flickr.com/justinbeevor

Edited by JustinBeevor

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I shoot the Zeiss Touit 50mm on a Sony 6000 and find it to be a superb lens for macro.

 

Do you happen to have any high-res pictures?

 

 

I'm just going through a NEX6 to A6300 upgrade, and so am rather biased. There's a few shots on my Flickr feed (https://www.flickr.com/photos/justinbeevor) with the 50mm Touit and the 10-18 zoom ... although nothing underwater since last September. Check the Cayman and Bonaire/Aruba and Aliwal galleries.

 

The problem with the Touit is that its operating range is very close, and gets even closer if you diopter it. With the Subsee +10 we're talking probably 40mm; and I haven't even tried the SMC as the compatibility charts show it goes down to 10mm. I've also found it to hunt for focus on the NEX, but I have never been able to work out what triggers the hunting. So I'm upgrading to the 90mm too (thank god for interest-free finance).

 

I'm going to stick with the 10-18, though, at least for the time being. Its zoom range is very usable, both above and underwater, and I do like the perspective stretch effects you can get with rectilinear. But I prefer fixed-length to zoom (the additional zoom control is distracting) and the dome port is massive and very floaty - although very good for splits. So I reckon the WWL could be an interesting alternative and look forward to giving it a go - I would use the Sigma 19mm in preference to the utterly miserable Sony 16-50mm.

 

 

Justin Beevor

www.flickr.com/justinbeevor

 

Truly great images, well done! I don't think you need more lenses haha

How would you compare the image quality of the 16mm and 10-18? I saw some 16mm reports of soft corners, I noticed it sometimes a bit on your pics.

I get your point about the macro, the a6300 focusing might work better on the touit 50mm?

Any idea if the Inon H100 would work on the sigma 19mm? Still have it laying around, the compability chart doesn't mention anything so I guess not?

 

Thanks for all the help so far. So many choices to burn my cash on :crazy:

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Thanks, very kind!

 

I've only ever used the 16 with the fisheye converter, so negotiable I would say that the 10-18 is a far better lens - the main issue being that you're comparing fisheye v rectilinear, and you may have a preference. The 10-18 suffers from soft corners too, but I assume this is caused by the dome rather than the lens - the issue is probably accentuated by the size of the dome, and manageable by stopping down. But the 16+converter definitely has soft-corner issues: we need a fixed fisheye, and I have been tempted to try the Samyang 8 (which is fully manual) but never taken the plunge.

 

Can't help re the Inon, sorry.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Thanks, very kind!

 

I've only ever used the 16 with the fisheye converter, so negotiable I would say that the 10-18 is a far better lens - the main issue being that you're comparing fisheye v rectilinear, and you may have a preference. The 10-18 suffers from soft corners too, but I assume this is caused by the dome rather than the lens - the issue is probably accentuated by the size of the dome, and manageable by stopping down. But the 16+converter definitely has soft-corner issues: we need a fixed fisheye, and I have been tempted to try the Samyang 8 (which is fully manual) but never taken the plunge.

 

Can't help re the Inon, sorry.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I prefer rectilinear, video is important to me. That's also a reason I don't think I'm going for the WWL-1; I don't like the distortion for video.

Have you tried the 10-18 for video?

 

 

Diver4fun,

 

You can see my flikr images here https://www.flickr.com/photos/jim-anderson/

 

 

Impressive! The size and cost advantage definately goes to the Zeiss.

Lack of working distance seems a valid point though, are you limited by it?

Is there anyone on this forum who shot the 90mm on E mount? Would love some samples.

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Diver4fun,

 

Working distance has not been an issue for me even when using a CMC CU lens with it.

 

Cheers,

 

Jim A

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Hello,

 

I am trying to decide which camera to choose for underwater photography .

I am really attracted by the a6000 or a6300.

But Olympus are really interesting too.

 

Do you have experience of seascape with these sony system?

I saw macro photos comparison but not seascape (wide angle)

 

How much will be compact the set-up camera+housing and which housing is better for the a6000 or a6300?

I own canon 70D and some objective so sony is attracting also because I can use those lenses on the camera.

 

I am interested on experience more than data sheet specification , how would you choose if you find yourself comparing these sony with the olympus old 5 mark ii for example?

 

I looking for a compact system that can be used also while free diving this is why as option I excluded to buy an housing for my canon 70D.

 

 

to jander4454 which housing are you using?

 

 

Thank you very much to all

Max

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Hello,

 

I am trying to decide which camera to choose for underwater photography .

I am really attracted by the a6000 or a6300.

But Olympus are really interesting too.

 

Do you have experience of seascape with these sony system?

I saw macro photos comparison but not seascape (wide angle)

 

How much will be compact the set-up camera+housing and which housing is better for the a6000 or a6300?

I own canon 70D and some objective so sony is attracting also because I can use those lenses on the camera.

 

I am interested on experience more than data sheet specification , how would you choose if you find yourself comparing these sony with the olympus old 5 mark ii for example?

 

I looking for a compact system that can be used also while free diving this is why as option I excluded to buy an housing for my canon 70D.

 

 

to jander4454 which housing are you using?

 

 

Thank you very much to all

Max

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It really depends what you want.

For video --> A6000 or a6300 (4k)

For still pics --> Olympus (better stabilization)

 

I think the A6000/A6300 will be better for wide angle, but flash sync speed is limited, a problem when shooting towards the sun.

 

Personally, I went for the Panasonic gx80. First affordable camera to offer 4k IBIS.

Now I'll have to assume Nauticam will make a housing for it (would be surprised if they don't )

 

Keep in mind the housings for these camera's are quite big, especially when doing wide angle. Fish eye lenses are smaller but unsuitable for video.

For freediving you might be better off using something like a gopro?

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I just bought the a6300 and it is an incredible camera.

 

For wide angle I tried the Zeiss 12F2.8 and Sony 1018F4. I would say the Zeiss is sharper then the 10-18 but the AF is pretty slow and even worse in video mode.

 

I tried the Sony 90F2.8M and the Zeiss 50M/2.8 for macro. Both lenses are very sharp and both are pretty slow when it comes to AF (the Sony is a little bit better).

 

I would not use the 16-50 kit lens, it's very bad.

 

So I will go for the Nauticam housing with the Sony 1018F4 (180 dome port) & Sony 90 macro.

 

Cheers

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I recently shifted to the A7R II and got the Ikelite housing. I have yet to take the system down but this is how I plan to deal with the short battery life. The small power bank gives me the equivalent of another FW50 battery.

27254112675_ce53181984_k.jpg

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Hi,

 

thanks for all these infos.

I am now frightened because I understand that the AF is slow while the publicity of the a6300 is really based on the fast AF.

How much is bothering this "slow" AF for underwater photography?

 

Olympus is faster?

 

My big concern as well is how much big is the housing for these system? I start having the feeling is almost as big as the housing for a DSRL like the 70D canon.

Am I wrong?

 

Do you have any sample of video and photos for the a6300?

 

Best Regards

And many thanks to all

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The AF is very fast with all Sony lenses, maybe not with the 90mm macro but I don't think that you really need it.

 

The housing is pretty small, but the ports and the dome for the Zeiss 12mm and Sony 1018 are 7"/180mm.

 

If you want to stay more compact you can go for the Sony 16mm + fisheye converter and the 4" dome which doesn't need any further ports.

 

Compact macro would be the Sony 16-50 and Nauticam CMC or Sony 30mm macro + diopter.

Edited by Peterpan

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Hi,

 

thank you.

What about ikelite housing =? the price is considerably lower than nauticam...?

 

is there any substantial difference among the Sony 1018 are 7"/180mm and the Sony 16mm + fisheye converter and the 4" dome ? Quality?

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I don't know the ikelite housings and if they have a lot of ports etc.

 

The Sony 16f2.8 is a pretty cheap lens, some say with soft corners. Quality must be better with the Zeiss 12 or Sony 1018.

 

Benefit from this setup with the Nauticam housing would be that you have the big N85-N120 port adapter and 180 dome which can be used with any other bigger dslr housing and the adapter is needed for the Sony 90 macro (if you wanna step up in some years).

 

But it's pretty expensive. Housing, tray, vacuum, ports and dome (12/1018) ~ 3500

Edited by Peterpan

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Hi

 

I've just bought the Sony 10-18mm lens for my Sony NEX7 & Nauticam housing and appreciate your advice on ports if you use this particular lens.

 

Looks like there are 3 options. I was assuming the Nauticam acrylic 7 inch (being acrylic) will not perform as well as the Zen and Nauticam glass port options. However as the acrylic 7 inch is made specifically for this lens this may not be the case? There's a price difference of course, and base/extensions needed for the glass which come into it, but purely on photo quality are you losing anything in this case with the acrylic 7 inch?

 

much appreciated

 

Good Viz Pete

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The Sony kit lens has some sweet spots (around 40mm @ F5.6 it's not half bad, for example) but huge distortion problems at 16mm. Works fine with the CMC at the longer range, though. Never had problems with AF speed of the Zeiss 12mm on my NEX-6 - would be surprised if A6300 is slower than the NEX-6. Great lens. Macro on the Sony is a problem. I used a 100mm Canon lens at the time, MF only. I have not seen a single Sony camera (including my 7R2) that focuses the 90mm G Macro "fast", so I'd be surprised if this was something the A6300 could overcome - one of the reasons why I went to DSLR, to have useful AF speed with high quality macro lenses.

 

Flash sync speed is an issue. I used Nikonos adapters on my NEX-6 and shot the strobes in manual, works perfectly. Wanted to have a TTL strobe trigger built, but housing (Nauticam) was too small for that.

 

Even the housing for a APS-C DLSR is substantially bigger than the housing of a mirrorless (talking alu housings here). At the end of the day though, it does not really matter - what "kills" you are the arms and strobes and focus lights, so even with a smaller housing, you will end up with a system almost the same size. I've met people who had RX100 rigs larger than my DSLR setup.

 

From what I've seen - never used one, but dived with a number of people who knew how to use their Olympus - the Olympus ecosystem has a MUCH better native lens selection than Sony for underwater use. Smaller sensor, though, and I always preferred the colour rendering of the Sony - YMMV.

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