Are people leaving micro four thirds?

[Tom_Kline 137]

 

 

...Sony FE 16-35mm F/4 zoom, while the lens is about as big as a 16-35 for DSLR housings it can be used with a much smaller 180mm port with results as acceptable as the 16-35 on DSLR with a 230mm port. This is a result of the shorter distance between lens and sensor in mirrorless cameras like A7R II.

 

"This is a result of the shorter distance between lens and sensor"

 

Can you explain why this is so? I remain skeptical.

[MikeO 5]

I have been waffling for some time on this, probably because my current family situation doesn't allow me to dive much. I am experimenting with M43 on land, mostly because of the crazy deals on refurbished bodies and lenses lately direct from Oly (EM-1 body for $575 and an EM-10 body for $275). I really like size of the system and the lenses -- not sold on the cameras. Actually, I take that back -- the EM-10 with the 17mm F1.8 makes a pretty darn good point and shoot for pictures of the kids. By far the biggest concern is that I can't convince myself that the autofocus on either camera body is better than (or even equal to) my old Canon 50D, even with the pro series lenses. I may need to stick with the 50D as the underwater camera for a while longer anyway so maybe the whole thing is moot.

[Griff 23]

I find the biggest draw back of all mirror less cameras, especially Sony is the battery life. I still have my Canon 700D Nauticam rig but also Shoot Olympus OMD EM1 and EM10 (wife's camera) and on our local dives of up to 2.5 hours a single charge is just enough. However our last two overseas holidays with 3 long dives a day the battery would give up early on the third dive even when we are careful to conserve power. The options are to open up the housing, change batteries, clean seals, insert camera and re-vacuum. However on a boat or remote sandy beach this is not ideal. A DSLR will easily do 3 dives plus. Don't get me wrong I love the MFT especially shooting and reviewing your shots in the viewfinder, not on the screen. I find the focusing not as quick as my Canon with a macro lens as it always hunts when you refocus where the Canon will stay locked on. But the Canon viewfinder is a lot smaller and live view focus is terrible. All systems are a trade off and gave pluses and minuses but I don't think I am "wasting my time with MTF!!" I may build up my DSLR system again and take both systems with me as the camera, lens, housing and port is only 1.3kg heavier than the OMD system. With the strobes, arms, clamps, lights, diopters etc etc that extra 1.3kg is not a lot in comparison to the overall system weight! Then I can have the best of both worlds.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Griff

[Phil Rudin 423]

Hi Tom, I was skeptical also but had several chats with design teams from two major manufactures of dome ports and both confirmed that the flange distance, in this case about 22mm rear lens element to sensor for Sony full frame mirrorless and about 42/43mm for Can/Nik FF DSLR does in fact make a difference with lenses of like angles of view. The result is that smaller domes can be used with mirrorless cameras with the same sensor size as a DSLR and still achieve like results.

[Draq 106]

Generally I have found focus speed acceptable, as long as we aren't talking about continuous focus or tracking. On the other hand one thing I learned was that if you fail to turn face detection off, it does slow down focus. On several occasions on general photo forums and such, I have seen people complain about focus speed on an EM1 and when asked about face detection said it was on or they had no idea. If you have an EM1 or 5 or 10 (I guess?) you might want to check that.

 

Supposedly, and that is all it is, Oly has made claims that they intend to make the next gen EM1 more competitive to the "pro" market by improving dynamic range, focus tracking and some other issues. I doubt the sensor size will change much, but these other things could make a big difference. I am hoping to be suitably impressed when that camera comes out or I may consider moving to an APS camera if I can convince myself the size issues won't be too bad. I also like TTL flash through fiber optics in at least some situations, and that is not available for the A7, so that bothers me a little with that camera when I think about full frame.

 

Luckily, the thing that most needs improvement in my underwater photography is and always has been me, and not the equipment, so that makes it easier to control the lust for new gear.

Edited May 4, 2016 by Draq

[Griff 23]

I always turn face detection off, the focusing is not slow but will always do a small contrast detection hunt when refocusing but my Canon just stays focused. If the light is bad the Oly macro can lose focus and hunt more than the Canon macro lens and is a bit more reliant on a focus light.

I don't use TTL any more especially for macro as it eats your camera battery up and the amount of shots I lost waiting for the camera flash to recharge, up to 3 seconds on the Canon was frustrating. Now I set the camera flash to 1/64 the power and my strobes to manual and usually 1/2 to 1/4 power or less and everything recharges before you can lock focus again.

[popadiys 3]

Can somebody show me a picture that proves that EM1 has worse dynamic range than the DSLRs? According to DxO Mark the EM1 has 12.7 stops while the mentioned by somebody Canon 7D has the awful 11.8! Even the latest EOS 5DS has worse dynamic range with 12.4 Evs. Of course we are talking about the native ISO setting, but still ... unless somebody shows me 1:1 example, I cannot take dynamic range as an argument.

[troporobo 237]

Luckily, the thing that most needs improvement in my underwater photography is and always has been me, and not the equipment, so that makes it easier to control the lust for new gear.

 

Amen to that my virtual friend! i am in the same camp. Doesn't mean I don't want new gear, but like you, I know the most important component is between the ears.

[eyu 27]

Dynamic range is a mute point if the photo is out of focus.

 

The Sony alpha 7R II is the current state of the art with mirrorless and it has great dynamic range, but still struggles in low contrast situations we underwater photographers have. Mirrorless cameras do focus in underwater situations, it is just that DSLR's focus better.

For me i need all the help I can get with auto focus, so a quick focus lock helps me get the photo I want.

I can the whole fish, not just it's tail as it swims past.

[Interceptor121 705]

I was on a trip with a sony rx100 surrounded by monster rigs and some 43. As fsr ad dynamic range was concerned there was no gap between the sony compact and 4:3. Some of the canon dslr actually didnt have much more. The nikon cropped looked better and the d800 an infinite amount better. That led me to the conclusion full frame or stay on smaller. If the sony a6000 had better ports though i would consider it as autofocus is great. In terms of ergonomics and autofocus it takes much more skill to drive a smaller rig

[Diver4fun 7]

What about the Gx80/85? It seems like the stabilization might be useful for 4k video. Price wise it's much more attractive than sony APSC/ Full frame too.
It only has 1/160 flash sync, but unlike sony flash it can be used on manual (low power), which should result in less recycling time?

Also there's no risk of overheating.

 

The only mirrorless options for one serious about video AND stills seem to be Sony APSC, FF or panasonic M4/3.

Sony APSC e-mount is limited to say the least. As long as Sony continues to focus on full frame lenses it's a no go for me (and my bank account in particular ).

Sony Full Frame is (personally) simply not an option for the pricing is 3 times as much compared to m43.

 

So wouldn't a m43 solution make more sense for me?

[adamhanlon 0]

I think that mirrorless cameras have improved (and continue to improve) massively over the past 18 months or so.

 

However, the figures still show that they account for a relatively small proportion of the market. Significantly their sales volume is still growing, whereas SLR is static and compacts are in free fall.

 

Part of this sales growth can be accounted for because they are "relatively" new to market , so technological advances are quite rapid, encouraging users to trade up more regularly. There is also a perceived need for smaller, lighter systems for traveling photographers.

 

The key question perhaps is perhaps when will mirrorless and SLR performance converge? Many of the comparisons that suggest that a given mirrorless is as good as an SLR, ignore the fact that SLRs are also improving. The AF systems on the new Nikons and the DR and color rendition of the new Canon are another quantum leap forward. These top end design enhancements will continue to give SLRs an edge over mirrorless for the time being.

 

Of course, this will stop when companies cease to invest in SLR development. Currently SLR sales, although static, are the major source of revenue for camera companies (or departments). When (if) mirrorless sales replace these, there will no longer any point/need for driving SLR technology.

 

Returning to the OP's question "Are people leaving micro four thirds?", I think that this is not the case. M4/3s is a small part of a small market share. Sony's a7 series has actually encouraged SLR users to switch, but I am not convinced that many M4/3s users will have swapped over.

Adam

[tamas970 12]

....Returning to the OP's question "Are people leaving micro four thirds?", I think that this is not the case. M4/3s is a small part of a small market share. Sony's a7 series has actually encouraged SLR users to switch, but I am not convinced that many M4/3s users will have swapped over.

Adam

 

I was briefly considering the swap to the a7rII from olympus, but adding up all factors, including my laziness I rather downscaled the camera towards the r100iv . If I am "finished" with the rx100iv, I'll most likely baptize my topside GX80 or its successor m43. I simply can't justify the added ~2kg weight and 2+k$ cost of a FF housing, I see the bulk and money costs better invested in strobes/lighting tech (I have 2 subtronic nova's waiting for optical conversion). True, this comes down to what am I shooting: mostly wide angle stuff, very little macro.

Edited October 13, 2016 by tamas970

[Deep6 7]

I am a EM 5 user since 2012 and and I still very happy with it.

 

I'm not leaving this format !!!!!

Yeah, me too. I will be looking at the new Oly M1 mark ii.

[popadiys 3]

Yeah, me too. I will be looking at the new Oly M1 mark ii.

I know that there will be Olympus underwater case for that. Let's see what domes standard will it use.

[Deep6 7]

I am using the EM-5 Mark I in the Nauticam housing so, I have the all the ports and lens (Pany 7-14 mm, Oly 12-50 mm, Pany 60 mm macro) I want for underwater. The pany 100-300 mm (200-600 FF) is sweet for wild life shots here in Colorado. Soooo much lighter and smaller than my Nikon 200 and 80-200 mm rig.

 

Regards,

Huck

[Griff 23]

I put this up in September they are sticking with the same as the PT-EP11.

[popadiys 3]

I've missed this announcement.

So that's more than great. Tthe adapter PAD-EP08 can be still used for all the E domes on the market. Good, that OIy decided not to go with the PT-EP13 stupidity.

[MikeO 5]

However they did stick with the stupidity of pricing the EM1 MKII at $2000.

Edited November 2, 2016 by MikeO

[popadiys 3]

However they did stick with the stupidity of pricing the EM1 MKII at $2000.

haha indeed. But being in the underwater market, you have got used to overpriced toys.

[MikeO 5]

Maybe overpriced toys are part of the game, but I could get a G7x and the housing for the price of this new Olympus body and maybe not be far off the EM1 MKI. Maybe my perspective is off because I got my EM1 MKI for $525 when refurbs went on sale . . . Will wait a while and see how it compares once more get out in wild.

[Draq 106]

Keep in mind that comparing the price of a refurbished camera that has been on the market for a few years to a not-even-in-the stores-yet new model may be a bit unfair. I don't think that can be the basis of saying the new camera is overpriced. I think they may have price it a couple hundred dollars over what many were expecting but in the photo world, a couple hundred dollars doesn't mean much anymore. A 20mm extension ring from Nauticam costs $200.00

 

Certainly within a matter of months the new camera will be available in gray market versions for less and will also be part of those numerous sales where Olympus offers 100-200 off. Clearly if one wants a "bargain" approach to the higher-end m43 cameras now, getting one of the closeout E-M1 bodies, or a refurb, and looking for a used housing for it would be the way to go.

[MikeO 5]

Keep in mind that comparing the price of a refurbished camera that has been on the market for a few years to a not-even-in-the stores-yet new model may be a bit unfair. I don't think that can be the basis of saying the new camera is overpriced. I think they may have price it a couple hundred dollars over what many were expecting but in the photo world, a couple hundred dollars doesn't mean much anymore. A 20mm extension ring from Nauticam costs $200.00

 

Certainly within a matter of months the new camera will be available in gray market versions for less and will also be part of those numerous sales where Olympus offers 100-200 off. Clearly if one wants a "bargain" approach to the higher-end m43 cameras now, getting one of the closeout E-M1 bodies, or a refurb, and looking for a used housing for it would be the way to go.

 

Yes, of course. More importantly and to the point, though I switched over to the E-M1 and Olympus pro lenses for above water photography (gotta say the 40-150 with the 1.4x tele-extender is wonderful), the E-M1 wasn't enough to make me switch over from my Canon 50D for underwater, given the extra cost of swapping housings and the fact that I dive less than I used to. In that regard, the price point of the E-M1 MKII gives me pause. I suppose I get that Olympus is pricing this as a "pro" level camera. If a Nikon D500 is $1500 and a D810 is $2499, why not try to price it between them? As to whether it offers capabilities that lie between them, I don't know. As for underwater, I will probably wait until reports are in on how much better the autofocus is, then figure out what my priorities are.

[Phil Rudin 423]

Apples to apples Mike, the D500/D750 announced at $1997 and the D810 at $3000 with the Canon 7D at $1800. The E-M1 announced at $1400. and the Olympus E-5 the then top "pro" camera announced in 2010 for $1700. Bitching about the price is quite common with many new camera releases. In the EU the E-M1 II with a select new pro lens like the new 12 to 100 F/4 Pro you get an £100.00 ($125.00) discount. A lot of people complained about the price increase of the E-M1 at $1400 over the E-M5 at $1000.00 and the fact (with E-M5) that you had to buy the camera with the 12-50 kit lens if you wanted to get an early release.

 

The E-M1 II has an excellent set of specs, better than D500 or 7D and most shooters buying the E-M1 II will be shooting the camera both above and below water with lenses like that wonderful 40-150/1.4 tele combo and be able to do it hand held because of the best IBIS in the market.

 

The bigger issue to me is simple, if I am buying a new U/W system all of the components for E-M1 system will be just as expensive as the components for the E-M1 II so I can have a system with the very latest improvements or a three year old version for a $600 difference if I bought the E-M1 new. The other option is that you can always wait another 3-3 1/2 for the E-M1 III which I am sure will be just as expensive or move to another manufacture like Panasonic GH-4 which cost $1700 at release.

 

For those of use who are already invested in an Olympus housing system and glass all that will be required is the new body and basic housing, my bet is that some used E-M1 housings and cameras will be coming to the Wetpixel market place soon.

[Draq 106]

I am pretty sure I will be upgrading to the new model sometime in 2017 and will probably be one of those with an E-M1 housing for sale in the classifieds. I have too much invested in lenses and ports to move to another system unless the E-M1 II (not loving the name, by the way) doesn't live up to the claims and "pro" reviews that I have seen so far.