Are people leaving micro four thirds?

[MikeO 5]

If the E-M1 MKI was gonna make me jump, I'd already have a used housing for it. I, like you, will be watching to see if the MKII is worth the hype. I will stop my "bitching" now . . .

[paratom 1]

For me it would come up how the improvements really show in real life.

Noise behaviour, AF-speed etc etc.

If the new version was fitting my Nauticam housing I would probably switch anyways, but I dont think it will fit.

So for me as an exisiting owner it is more a difference if I sell my 2 EM1I lets say for 600 each, and sell the Nauticam housing for 1000 and then buy a new housing and only one EM1II and forget about a backup, I have to spend at least 1500 Euro. If I want a abckup like I have today the difference is 3300 Euro.

And then there is the 1/320 sync time the EM1I offers.

So I will for sure wait and see how big the advantages of the EM1II are in real life.

[Interceptor121 773]

Fact is mft sensors have not really progressed much. Even the new 20 mp sensor from panasonic does not result in amazing improvements is more about ergonomics. If there is a camera you like that still has a housing there are good options out there

 

 

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[Phil Rudin 461]

I don't know what source you are using to compare sensors but that is about as silly as saying that the FF Canon 5D IV sensor has not really progressed much over the 5D sensor or that the $2000.00 Nikon D500 has not progressed much over the $1000.00 D100. I have been shooting with the Sony A7R II for a year and a half now but regardless of image quality which is clearly high by any standard the Olympus system is still makes a better underwater system overall.

[MikeO 5]

For most people, the current sensors are more than adequate. And if you want a big step up, you can always go to FF. I'm more interested in improvements in mirrorless autofocus, C-AF, in particular. A bump up in the ability to track moving subjects would be appreciated. We will see what the MKII can do.

[Draq 118]

As one moves towards the top end of any system I think there can be issues of diminishing returns. That is even more true with the "newest & bestest" camera in a line. From the standpoint of picture quality, I am not able to fully utilize the capabilities of the current cameras...my camera is not the weakest link in my photographic efforts. I doubt that a small increase in sensor pixels will have a dramatic effect on my pictures and have no interest in dealing with the weight and size and cost issues in going to full frame. But, at times there are certain concrete improvements or changes, like fixing "shutter shock" or improving C-AF speed or tracking abilities or more autofocus points or better flash sync speeds, improved battery life or ergonomics or other features that can make a product upgrade compelling beyond the simple question of whether it has a better or bigger sensor. That is my interest in the new Oly camera; it has some features that I think I would enjoy using and may make it easier for me to get the shots I want. That it has an improved sensor is also nice.

 

I have no illusions that a new camera will make me a better photographer, but it might increase the fun for me. Given what I have to spend to go on each dive trip, it is hard to get too worked up about the price of a particular camera or lens that should last me at least a few years.

Edited November 8, 2016 by Draq

[Interceptor121 773]

I was purely referring to micro four thirds. The improvements seem to be in ergonomics and other features like auto focus etc on the new model. So if you are currently struggling with those issues there is a good reason to look for upgrades. If you have somehow got around those quirks upgrading to a newer model may provide benefits to image quality that depend on your starting point. For example having been on a boat with people with olympus omd-em5/10/1 the differences are minimal. I have friends that have done the jump from panasonic gx7 to gx8 with zero improvement to their images.

 

 

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[Draq 118]

I am not really sure what you are saying in the post above, but if you are responding to my post, I was making general comments about making equipment upgrades to improve one's photography, and about price and performance variables between the top models and the lower tier models in any particular camera product line. I am not struggling with my E-M1 although I certainly recognize its limitations. I actually enjoy using it and find it mostly meets my needs. I think I would enjoy the features of the new camera, especially in regards to improvements in focus speed and tracking and I would like the increased battery life if that pans out. I also find the pro-capture feature interesting, though not necessarily underwater.

 

I am fortunate that I can afford the new camera and a new Nauticam housing (unless they go crazy with pricing) and I will probably upgrade because I would like to...not because I think it will make me a better photographer. If I get better results from the camera then great, if not, that is fine, too.

 

I am not surprised that your friends have not seen an improvement in their photography by upgrading to a newer camera. As I have said before, for most of us, the camera is not the weakest link in the chain. If you can't get the results you want from last year's model, it is unlikely you will get them with this year's model.

[Interceptor121 773]

Sorry draq it was not for you

 

 

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[Interceptor121 773]

Sorry draq it was not for you

 

 

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[Draq 118]

No problem.

[paratom 1]

I think in case of the EM1 the decision is not so easy for me. Not because the EM1II is probably excellent and better than the EM1, the problem is more that the EM1 is allready so good (and pretty fast AF).

 

I believe in earlier times the development steps from one generation to the next were bigger than today, where allmost all cameras are pretty good already.

 

For me it also depends how often does one use the equipment. For someone regualary using it its an easier decision than for someone like me who does maybe only 20-30 dives a year.

 

I am facing similar decisions right now trying to decide for a projector and trying to decide between a 4k projector and a HD model.

In one way I think the HD will do it for me, on the other side I think I have spend so much money in photography equipment
(Leica S etc) that I should not save in the last stage of image viewing chain.

[Interceptor121 773]

For a projector get definitely 4K. On a small TV set you cant see the pixels but once you go to 100" diagonal the differences are substantial from 10 meters

 

 

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[T.Reid 3]

I moved from my Olympus OMD-EM 5 mk ii to a Sony A7 and a lot more happy in the full frame format and with some extra mega pixels for times when cropping is necessary.

 

Really liked my Olympus camera besides the poor grip the EM5 has but hated the format of 4:3 since I like to generally shoot closer to 16:9 and I found I was loosing out too much pixels when cropping to an image size I found more pleasing to my eye...

[Draq 118]

While I sometimes wish I had a FF sensor so I could have more leeway to crop, every time I look at the options I end up back at micro four thirds. Moving to a Sony system would not only entail a lot of money for new gear (their lenses, at least the better ones, are quite expensive), they are still lacking some lens choices I would want and such a change would also mean a lot more weight and bulk when traveling. The weight and size is what has kept me from Nikon full frame as well. As far as I can tell, a couple of my issues with micro four thirds, such as battery life and continuous focus abilities, are substantially improved in the newest EM1 and the lens choices are quite impressive now. One thing I love about micro four thirds is that I can get almost all my underwater gear (except arms and clamps) in a single small rolling case that easily fits in an overhead bin and my camera body and lenses easily fit in a "personal bag" on the plane along with a number of other things I like to carry with me. I doubt I could pull that off with Sony and I know it would not work with a FF Nikon or Canon.

 

On the other hand, I don't shoot in 16:9

[A.A.Ron 1]

New member here and I'd like to share my journey and commitment to M4/3 as I found Draq's question interesting.

 

I chose Olympus M4/3 shortly after getting OW certified in 2013. I'd long been a photography enthusiast and had only recently dropped my Canon kit and started over with Pentax K-5, which I still think is a terrific camera for my needs: compact (for an SLR), weather-sealed, in-body IS--Canon had nothing like it and neither did Nikon. Anyway, I looked into what it would take to put it underwater. Ikelite briefly made a housing for K5, but when I looked at the price of that, plus the price of their strobes, and that sync cables just looked like more potential flood failure points to me*, I started looking elsewhere (also I just wasn't sure I wanted a rig that big as a beginner diver). I wanted the best bang for buck for sensor size, and I didn't want anything two large, and at the time, going fiber optic for strobe sync seemed a no-brainer for cost and reliability. Then, BAM!, I found a closeout package deal on, iirc, Adorama: Pen E-PL1, kit lens, and Oly PT01 housing for $500! I've been building onto that system ever since.

 

Now, since I am shooting a camera that was an old model even when I bought it in 2013, I recently went through a huge research slog to decide if I wanted to invest further in the setup or if I should plan to jump ship to Sony or another mirrorless format when it's time to upgrade. Well, I decided to stick with it and bought the Pany fisheye and matching AOI dome port for my recent trip to Bonaire. I don't get to dive often enough to justify a huge expenditure on gear (two trips a year, currently, and I live in the midwest), so I wouldn't have spent another $1200 on this setup if I didn't plan to stick with it. The announcement of the E-M1 MkII helped keep me on board. Also, I really like the Oly housings and mine has been very dependable. The biggest shortcoming I had with it was the depth rating limited to 150 ft. Places like Truk Lagoon are on my bucket list, so I was relieved to see the newest OMD housing is rated to 60m. Right now I'm thinking in a year, hopefully with a price drop, I'll upgrade to the E-M1 II, with oly housing, and it will also replace my Pentax K7 and be the only camera system I use, UW and topside. It didn't hurt that Oly just introduced some great new glass.

 

So anyway, from the frugal end of the spectrum, I can say Olympus still offers a great value to anyone wanting to be a serious underwater photographer, and with their recent lens and camera offerings, I have confidence it sticking with them.

 

*At this point I'm well aware of the advantages of the electronic flash syncing, but I'm still glad that's several o-rings I don't have to worry about.

[Sully23 0]

I've been shooting a Canon 7D in a Nauticam housing for a few years, primarily for video. While I love the setup, it's hard to ignore the advances, weight and size differences inherent in the MFT and FF cameras being discussed. While I'd agree that the Sony full frames seem to be exceptional cameras, I'd also agree with some of the earlier comments that the price in putting together a full Sony system plus housing and lights can become pretty prohibitive. Also obviously a bigger setup than the 4:3 cameras. Very much intrigued by the EM1 MkII, as well as the Panasonic GH5. Main question that I have is around the housings. I like the fact that Olympus actually makes housings for their own cameras. Just intuitively seems to me that they know what they're building better than anyone else, so it would seem that the housings should work very well with their cameras. I would think the polycarbonate housing of an Olympus would certainly be lighter than, say, a corresponding Nauticam housing. What are the other primary differences between a Nauticam housing or Olympus' own housing for for the EM1 MkII?

 

As an aside, I'm not as frequent a visitor to this site as I'd like to be, but looking to change that this year. Some exceptionally smart people here who are passionate about what they do. I seem to learn more here in 15 minutes than a days worth of research on other sites. Great stuff!

Edited January 6, 2017 by Sully23

[thetrickster 328]

Hi Sully,

Just a quick bit of trivia. The Olympus underwater housings and ports are actually made by a company called AOI and branded Olympus.

Apart from the material the housing is made from, there is little functional differences in the housings. I suppose one of the benefits of the Olympus housings is that they are more buoyant than an Aluminium from Nauticam or others - so you potentially don't need the float arms that I seem to have a lot of..

Reasons for going for a 'generic' brand housing from Nauticam, Aquatica, Sealux and others is that the port system is transferable between different camera brands, so one year I could be shooting Olympus, the next Panasonic - so you can invest in your ports (as they are not cheap) and know they will last for many years on future cameras.

Going with Olympus they made it difficult on some of their housings (previously) to change ports and then you are limited to a very small selection and also they have been known to change the port mount completely between cameras - so you really can only buy for your current camera, with the likelihood that you will need everything again for your next camera.

Also the Aluminium housings are rated for sub 60m - even 100m+ dives and have many additional advantages like vacuums and leak detectors, better ergonomics for gloves, handles etc.

As to sizing. The m43 cameras and housings are slowly creeping in size (compare my old EPL1 and the GH4 for example!) so I would suspect with the GH5 and EM1mk2 the housing won't be much smaller than a Sony or even a mid sized Canon.

Edited January 6, 2017 by thetrickster

[EspenB 15]

Hi Sully,

 

Just a quick bit of trivia. The Olympus underwater housings and ports are actually made by a company called AOI and branded Olympus.

 

 

"AOI is an Asian manufacturer that makes Olympus, Fuji, Sea & Sea underwater photography housings and accessories. Apart from making the Olympus branded products, they have come up with a value-priced port system that carries their own name. The AOI port system completes the Olympus micro four thirds housing system and makes them a serious contender against more advanced competitors."

 

Homepage: http://www.aoi.com.hk/page1.asp

 

AOI also seems to manufacture the RGBlue lights:

 

http://www.rgblue.jp/en/contact/

Edited January 6, 2017 by EspenB

[Sully23 0]

Thanks Richard. Not surprised that they have a third party do the housings, but your commentary about the housing differences was very helpful as I hadn't thought about the port question. The ports on my current Nauticam setup are pretty expensive and in excellent shape, so the ability to use them on a different housing definitely does have value.