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Thanks Lionfi2s. You are the first person to state that he has really found a use for Log profiles. That is interesting. If you can do some comparative tests, to illustrate the differences, that would be excellent!

I ll post some short videos soon GP7.

In the meantime another member posted this in another thread on this forum and i found it very relevant to our discussion

http://www.eoshd.com/2015/11/sony-vs-canon-colour-science-does-this-explain-the-difference/

 

Another thing to consider is where you are viewing the content! There is huge difference in colour between what i see on the camera monitor, to what i see on the Ninja monitor, to the computer monitor to the tv monitor.

I have ended up colour grading in two versions one for computer screen use and one for my TV.

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Okay Guys:

 

First day of filming in Grand Cayman. Here are two clips both using underwater auto white balance. Both clips have NO MAGIC FILTER. First clip I used video lights to try to illuminate the foreground. Second clip, no lights. NO COLOR CORRECTION on either clip.

 

Both of these clips were filmed at approximately 60 feet depth. This was the top of a vertical wall that plunged WAY DOWN, which is what the Caymans are famous for.

 

Lovely dive and video GeoPaul. Did you notice the background color cast shifted slightly from magenta to blue at 1:09? Probably when you turned the lights off?

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I ll post some short videos soon GP7.

In the meantime another member posted this in another thread on this forum and i found it very relevant to our discussion

http://www.eoshd.com/2015/11/sony-vs-canon-colour-science-does-this-explain-the-difference/

 

Very helpful article Lionfi2.. According to the gamut chart in the article, it seems that the ITU-709 is a more balanced color gamut to choose, that is PP4 in the A7R II.

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This is a simple experiment I did using GeoPaul's video color background as I picked a midtone color with a color eyedropper and in PS I added 10% red to see if red filter or pushing the WB color matrix towards red will do any help. I did another test also by adding %10 cyan.

 

https://s20.postimg.org/b5j9sagx9/Colors.jpg

 

Obviously red is what we want to avoid as it adds magenta cast significantly. Adding Cyan on the other hands, does bring back a nice blue cast, but I need to experiment UW to see its effect on other colors, like corals, fish and so on. Naturally using lights will be necessary to restore red and yellow in those subjects.

Edited by Ammar
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No problem with UAWB untill 12 meters. From 12 to 18 m is the tricky depht, no problem in early morning or late afternoon ( use lights ). Mid hours if you are lucky w water conditions AWB plus matrix correction or do MACRO. Deeper than 20 m use ligts YES OR YES....

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Well much better w lights. When did you shoot ? Morning, miday or afternoon ?.

 

These were shot in the morning. One thing that I have noticed is that the lighting above water, and particularly the direction of the sun, make a huge difference.

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I ll post some short videos soon GP7.

In the meantime another member posted this in another thread on this forum and i found it very relevant to our discussion

http://www.eoshd.com/2015/11/sony-vs-canon-colour-science-does-this-explain-the-difference/

 

Another thing to consider is where you are viewing the content! There is huge difference in colour between what i see on the camera monitor, to what i see on the Ninja monitor, to the computer monitor to the tv monitor.

I have ended up colour grading in two versions one for computer screen use and one for my TV.

 

I am looking forward to seeing the videos, and I enjoyed that article. I must say that I may try shooting in sLog tomorrow and doing a comparison. See what the difference is.

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Lovely dive and video GeoPaul. Did you notice the background color cast shifted slightly from magenta to blue at 1:09? Probably when you turned the lights off?

 

 

Thanks very much Ammar. Yes I have notice shifts at various times. I will post a video I took today of a shift that happened for no particular reason. Sometimes I think the lighting above changes, perhaps a cloud, and then the entire underwater white balance changes for no apparent reason. I have heard this from other photographers.

 

Unfortunately for me, I am diving at a place where the dive really doesn't start until 40 or 50 feet (13-16mm). Much of the filming is very deep. Accordingly, it is not clear just how well the underwater auto white balance is working. I will post some more tests as soon as I can. Thanks for your comments Ammar.

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This is a simple experiment I did using GeoPaul's video color background as I picked a midtone color with a color eyedropper and in PS I added 10% red to see if red filter or pushing the WB color matrix towards red will do any help. I did another test also by adding %10 cyan.

 

https://s20.postimg.org/b5j9sagx9/Colors.jpg

 

Obviously red is what we want to avoid as it adds magenta cast significantly. Adding Cyan on the other hands, does bring back a nice blue cast, but I need to experiment UW to see its effect on other colors, like corals, fish and so on. Naturally using lights will be necessary to restore red and yellow in those subjects.

 

 

Hi Ammar: What is it you did there again? is this something you can do when you are color correcting on something like Premier Pro? I am not following exactly what it is you did and what software you used. Can you please explain that? Many thanks.

And here is another link also posted by another forum member on white balancing SONY AX100 camera

 

http://www.gateshousings.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/UW-Color-Correction-with-the-Sony-AX100-R1.pdf

 

Yes this is super helpful. Thanks for posting it. I am studying it closely.

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Hi guys, i just got a Seacam housing and the Sony A7SII with the 16/35 lens, thanks for all the helpfull info here!

I am planning to buy the 90mm sony lens also for video do you guys have used it?

 

Looking forward to play with the new toy next month in Indonesia

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Hi guys, i just got a Seacam housing and the Sony A7SII with the 16/35 lens, thanks for all the helpfull info here!

I am planning to buy the 90mm sony lens also for video do you guys have used it?

 

Looking forward to play with the new toy next month in Indonesia

 

Hi Brumpy:

 

I am not into macro yet, but will be interested to learn from your experiences. I think this is an awesome camera. The white balance issues are the most challenging.

 

I am going to Raja Ampat on October 21, and will be staying at Misool Eco Resort. I think Ammar on this thread is also going to Indonesia -- to Raja as well. Where are you headed?

Edited by GeoPaul7

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Hi guys, i just got a Seacam housing and the Sony A7SII with the 16/35 lens, thanks for all the helpfull info here!

I am planning to buy the 90mm sony lens also for video do you guys have used it?

 

Looking forward to play with the new toy next month in Indonesia

Hehehe...

 

a8bb3e7ac42e752357d5d292c19df6d7.jpg

 

I have also the FE 90mm 2.8 GM. Will try it on october at Similan islands...

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These were shot in the morning. One thing that I have noticed is that the lighting above water, and particularly the direction of the sun, make a huge difference.

Ambient light is very important when you shoot underwater. Always better early morning and late afternoon. Ideal with the sun at 15-20 degrees....

If sun is higher better to shoot at 25-40m....

Edited by TaxiDiver14

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Next set of tests, filmed today, are in the attached film on Video. Automatic Underwater white balance used. NO filter. No lights or "torches." Here, I compare two clips. The first version of each clip is my attempt at color correction. These images were filmed at about 50 feet (16 meters), with plenty of ambient light at least at that depth. The fact there was no filter allowed the camera to gather more light. I was at f8 and a very low ISO -- around 200 to 400 or so. Not sure how much quality this will add but here the 4K quality of the recording is somewhat evident. I was also experimenting with trying to get low as possible, almost on the ground, and shoot up towards the subject. Wish there had been more fish around, but hopefully Indonesia in 5 weeks will change that.

 

To give my new friends around the world a flavor of where we are diving, the final clip is of my girlfriend Bonnie diving an impressive portion of the huge "wall" that drops off all around these Cayman Islands. She is at about 30 meters and I am at about 23 meters in depth. No chance for use of lights there.

 

Tomorrow I will try using a "magic filter." On this trip, it is becoming evident that there really is no chance to film above 10 meters. It will be interesting to see what the filter can do.

 

I will also try a quick comparison of no picture profile and using a couple of picture profiles.

 

https://vimeo.com/183238837

Edited by GeoPaul7

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Well you are lucky. My diving conditions in the Mediterranean are rought. Yesterday the courrent was strong and 80% of divers couldnt even reach bottom. Viz isnt like yours. Particles every where. But we have plenty of fish. Now back home and I will try to upload a mini video next 3 days....

 

In my A7RII there is not any diference in the 100-3200 ISO range...

Edited by TaxiDiver14
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Hi Brumpy:

 

I am not into macro yet, but will be interested to learn from your experiences. I think this is an awesome camera. The white balance issues are the most challenging.

 

I am going to Raja Ampat on October 21, and will be staying at Misool Eco Resort. I think Ammar on this thread is also going to Indonesia -- to Raja as well. Where are you headed?

 

Are you going to Indonesia without a macro lens?

 

I will be doing 2 live aboard trips on the new boat "Ilike" http://www.dive-away-liveaboards.com/en/ilike

From 5 til 15 oktober Saumlaki - Ambon

From 18 till 28 oktober Ambon - Triton Bay

 

Really looking forward to the trips and using my new toy :-)

You guys are really helpful, thanks!

I will keep you updated about the 90mm macro

 

Greetings Bruno

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Are you going to Indonesia without a macro lens?

 

I will be doing 2 live aboard trips on the new boat "Ilike" http://www.dive-away-liveaboards.com/en/ilike

From 5 til 15 oktober Saumlaki - Ambon

From 18 till 28 oktober Ambon - Triton Bay

 

Really looking forward to the trips and using my new toy :-)

You guys are really helpful, thanks!

I will keep you updated about the 90mm macro

 

Greetings Bruno

 

Great - I envy you :-) I wont fit 4 weeks in my schedule (and buddy-wife would clearly object 4 weeks on a boat....), but we'll be doing 2 weeks going from Maumere via Alor, Forgotten Islands, Banda Islands to Ambon starting 6th October. Hope to see many hammers and good muck :-) Will be using a Sony as well - The AX100.

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Well you are lucky. My diving conditions in the Mediterranean are rought. Yesterday the courrent was strong and 80% of divers couldnt even reach bottom. Viz isnt like yours. Particles every where. But we have plenty of fish. Now back home and I will try to upload a mini video next 3 days....

 

In my A7RII there is not any diference in the 100-3200 ISO range...

 

 

Now that I am trying to learn to be a photographer, I have concluded that the visibility varies so much day by day and place by place. Today it was terrible and I couldn't really get any good shots. I am trying to salvage some as I tried a new lens combo. Looking forward to your video!

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Are you going to Indonesia without a macro lens?

 

I will be doing 2 live aboard trips on the new boat "Ilike" http://www.dive-away-liveaboards.com/en/ilike

From 5 til 15 oktober Saumlaki - Ambon

From 18 till 28 oktober Ambon - Triton Bay

 

Really looking forward to the trips and using my new toy :-)

You guys are really helpful, thanks!

I will keep you updated about the 90mm macro

 

Greetings Bruno

 

Well Bruno. I don't think I will have time to learn how to shoot macro video before I go, but who knows? My fiance has a GoPro and wants to get some video lights, and perhaps we can use that? I am very much looking forward to going to Indonesia! I will check out those liveaboards. They look nice!

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Hi Ammar: What is it you did there again? is this something you can do when you are color correcting on something like Premier Pro? I am not following exactly what it is you did and what software you used. Can you please explain that? Many thanks.

 

Yep.. Raja Ampat on board the Aggressor on Oct. 5.

 

Well, in my colors test, I attempted to proof that magic or any red filter on the Sony will only add more magenta cast to the images.

 

http://s20.postimg.org/b5j9sagx9/Colors.jpg

 

The box to the left is the original background color of your latest movie. The box in the middle has %10 red, which I added in Photoshop on top of the original color as if magic/red filter was used, and notably you can see that the background turned to magenta. The box to the right has a cyan filter effect, %10 on top of the original background color, that I plan to test UW through the cam WB color matrix as it did make the original background color more blue.

 

So in essence, my theory is, and it is a theory thus far, that blending red with the grade of blue that Sony white balance or auto white balance produces will result in undesirable magenta cast in the background, and the fix is to add a cyan by using the cam white balance color matrix (not auto white balance). Initially I will set the WB color matrix to B2 and take it from there.

Edited by Ammar
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HELP! AAAHHHH! I am showing you two clips, which demonstrate the inexplicable reappearance of a horrible magenta cast in my footage. I was doing well shooting on my trip. The conditions changed from day to day but I was becoming comfortable with shooting underwater automatic white balance. I had decided that a red filter really did not help. You must use the password "Tinamou" to see the clip. You should watch what happened to me.

 

https://vimeo.com/183565948

 

 

I decided to take off the Nauticam "Wet Wide Angle" lens, and shoot with my 28 mm lens, to make portraits of fish and schools of fish. So I approached a school of Schoolmaster Snapper. They were yellow, and I suppose the background was blue -- a complimentary color.

 

For whatever reason, it is possible that the yellow of the snapper affected the algorithm of the underwater auto white balance, and gave a magenta cast. The takeaway for me is that there is a computer program working in your camera, at all times, trying to guess what colors it should be representing. These change depending on what else is happening with the sensor.

 

WHAT ARE OTHERS' IDEA OR THOUGHTS FOR WHAT HAPPENED HERE? Very strange. I think I may experiment tomorrow with just programming the temperature and cast of the white balance. But of course the conditions change all the time.

 

Can hardly wait to get back in the water to see if this happens again, or if I made a mistake.

 

Since I already made the little film, here is one on a turtle we saw today. No password needed.

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

George

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