Jump to content
SwiftFF5

Winter musings

Recommended Posts

Now this could be very nice indeed for underwater "swim'n'gun" shooting if someone would make a housing for it that supports a good wide-angle, zoom-through port.

 

https://www.videomaker.com/videonews/2016/12/panasonic-unveils-the-hc-x1-new-power-and-versatility-in-a-camcorder

 

Hmmm, that really does sound promising. I hope that their underwater white balancing is decent. That is often tricky to get right, but the rest of the specs look very good indeed, and the price is reasonable as well. It will be interesting to see who comes up with a housing for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now this could be very nice indeed for underwater "swim'n'gun" shooting if someone would make a housing for it that supports a good wide-angle, zoom-through port.

 

https://www.videomaker.com/videonews/2016/12/panasonic-unveils-the-hc-x1-new-power-and-versatility-in-a-camcorder

 

Yes 4k at 60 frames sounds great - I just wonder how much it will be compressed at 150 mbps.

 

However the main downside for me would be that you can't take off the handle / audio-unit. Therefore any housing would as a result be quit bulky.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes 4k at 60 frames sounds great - I just wonder how much it will be compressed at 150 mbps.

 

Yeah I guess the Z100 still "wins" in that respect as it has an equivalent 150 Mbps UHD mode, but also can shoot XAVC Intra 4:2:2 VBR at up to 600 Mbps max. (and true 4K).

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I had a lot of spare $$$$ laying around not knowing what to do with them, I'd consider this

 

http://www.gateshousings.com/pro-action/

 

A GoPro for Pros :-)) But seriously - its a cute little setup at just 13kg including cam / batterie / monitor for an ARRI or RED. Not bad.

Edited by bubffm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm.. yeah, the Panasonic HC-X1 look nice, but aside from the 1" sensor, the Sony z100 seems to do everything it does and more..

 

I'm looking forward to seeing the final price on the gates proaction housing, but at the end of the day, I suspect it'll be around the same price-point as Nauticam's Weapon LT housing, if not more expensive. If you have a lot of time on your hands, Bubffm, I encourage you to read the REDUSER Underwater Bubble Blower's thread -- chock full of information about shooting Red cameras underwater, and underwater filming in general.

 

One of the themes that comes up repeatedly in that thread is the lack of good optical solutions for shooting a RED (and by extension, a DSLR with interchangeable lenses) underwater. Most rectilinear lenses don't do well underwater behind domes, especially smaller domes. Fisheyes are better, but then, most people don't really like fisheye distortion for moving shots. Resolution-wise at least, something like the z100 with the gates zoom-through port may well produce sharper images than even an 8k Red Weapon, and obviously have a much broader range of focal lengths covered on the same dive.

 

Too bad there don't seem to be any used z100/housing packages on the market right now. I guess Gates probably hasn't produced so many? Apart for Josh Jensen, I don't know anyone else who shoots a z100 underwater...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

However the main downside for me would be that you can't take off the handle / audio-unit. Therefore any housing would as a result be quit bulky.

 

Ahhh, I missed that. Yes, that would be a major problem. Good catch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi all,

 

The Gates Z100 housing is indeed sold out, and we have no plans to make more at this time. That said, if someone insists on the Z100 as an acquisition platform, we can discuss options to make one as a special run.

 

And FWIW, those of you shooting on a proper video system like the Z100 appreciate and understand the benefits: Long battery life, recording bitrate / color space, instant auto-focus, versatile zoom range (especially when paired with a proper zoom-through port), external monitoring, and more. But many people have moved to DSLR / Mirrorless systems. Some have legitimate reasons e.g. shooting photos / video both topside and underwater. Others have done so because it's popular. Still others simply migrated to photos because it's easier. Video acquisition, editing and storytelling is hard by comparison to the instant gratification of photography. So kudos to all of you that take on the task of filmmaking.

 

J-

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, I'm back from Cuba and am resurrecting this thread. I had my L&M housing serviced between Roatan and Cuba, and I'm not at all happy. I won't go into detail right now, but will wait to see what if they do anything to satisfy me.

 

Anyway, I am now re-considering my options. I have thought about it, and my requirements for a new camera would, of course, be image quality (including color depth) but also include the ability to zoom (does not need to be a power zoom, but could be manual), good image stabilization, good white balance, and good continuous auto-focus. On the DLSR side, both the Nikon D500 and Panasonic GH5 look good (some of my friends are also suggesting the TG5), but I'm still not completely sold on the DSLR route. If I stay with a dedicated video camera or camcorder, is there anything coming out soon that I should be thinking about?

 

Also, I just noticed that Backscatter has a Gates housing for my current Canon HF-S30 for $1300 - that's really quite an affordable option, although I would be a generation behind current technology.

 

So, many thanks for the interesting thoughts so far, and any help with my current dilemma.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow. 1 year later and still no real successor to the AX100. Sad! I think Sony have bypassed the semi pro camcorder market now and making us got with the Alpha and FS cameras.

 

I'm still happy with my GH4, but now have the GH5 (can't afford the housing just yet) and from some of the stuff I've seen posted (not all of it thou) they have really nailed the underwater MWB issues so look forward to getting it underwater later in the year.

 

I think (and I'm guilty of it too) that content is still king and it's not all about the latest camera, and I bet the footage from your current Canon would knock the spots of some of the crap I film :-)

 

 

 

Regards - Richard

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow. 1 year later and still no real successor to the AX100. Sad! I think Sony have bypassed the semi pro camcorder market now and making us got with the Alpha and FS cameras.

Regards - Richard

I really enjoyed the Sony AX100 for almost two years but due to lack of succession have now moved on to the GH5. I did consider the Sony FS5. I played with it and its a tremendeous cam - if it would just have better 4k-capbilities. And then the menus! Only since I am now with Panasonic, I know how well structured and logical a camera menu can be!

 

Not to talk about easy switching between standard 4k and slowmo FHD (impossible on the FS5, supereasy on GH5) and a lot ofher smaller points, like programming different shooting modes (impossible on FS5, supereasy on GH5) etc... The only thing I truly miss (overland) is the build-in automatic ND fn the FS5, that is really extremely useful!

 

But for the time being, I will spend the nearer future with the GH5. Am I sold on the 'DSLR' format? Clearly not. The camcorder remains to have significant ergonomic advantages - I just have my doubts about future options for that format for the higher end consumer market.

 

So, its probably RED or GH5 for now :)

Edited by bubffm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think (and I'm guilty of it too) that content is still king and it's not all about the latest camera, and I bet the footage from your current Canon would knock the spots of some of the crap I film :-)

 

 

 

Regards - Richard

 

Hi Richard,

 

I doubt that - I've seen your work that you have shared here. Thanks for your thoughts.

The camcorder remains to have significant ergonomic advantages - I just have my doubts about future options for that format for the higher end consumer market.

 

So, its probably RED or GH5 for now :)

 

Bubffm,

 

Yeah, that is exactly my dilemma, I'm afraid. Thanks for your thoughts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From a quick look, it only seems to record 8bit internally. But certainly interesting to note that the camcorder format appears to be still alive.

Edited by bubffm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree, it appears to only record 8-bit internally, but does offer the option of 10-bit recording with an external recorder. Yes, Canon does seem to be moving the camcorder format forward for now. Like you, I was worried that it was going to be abandoned.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, for now I have moved to the GH5, whether I have left the camcorder camp for good remains to be seen :)

Edited by bubffm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are 2 things to considers: Price of camera and price of housing.

For the price of camera, the GH5 definitely is a winner.

If Nauticam doesn't make housing for the GX10, you are only left with Gates, which have very expensive and bulky housing.

 

Also, 150Mb for 60fps 4K seems very small for file size, so will have to see how good is the image after all the compression. Other than that, GX10 do have lots of flexibility in term of WA and Macro, and built in ND filter. I'm just curious how much control can you have on the camcorder once it's put into housing. Many modern camcorder have touch screen menu now so once put into housing, you can only use one or 2 buttons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wouldnt necessarily call the Gates housing bulky and expensive. If I compare the Gates AX 100 housing to the Nauticam GH5 with an Acrylic port, then, yes the Gates is a bit heavier. But it is completely neutrally buoyant, which I certainly cant say about the Nauticam GH5 with acrylic port (flips skywards). And the weight balance between the two will tip quickly if you use a glass port and carry other accessories / port options. I can tell you I carried more weight on my last trip with the GH5 than ever before with my Gates AX100.

 

Same on the price: While just the housing for the GH5 is some 700 USD less than the Gates, by the time you add ports, extension rings, lenses etc. you are likely to spend SIGNIFICANTLY more on a ready-to-shoot GH5 setup than on a Gates AX100, which is pretty much ready to shoot out of the box with a wide angle port and a Saga flip added for close Macro.

 

In the end it will depend what quality the new Canon's can deliver, and then if Gates (or others) consider it worthwhile / see a sufficient market to invest resources to design a housing for it.

 

And the even bigger question: WiIl there be a successor for the Sony AX100 and what might that have on offer...

Edited by bubffm
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess they had to react to Canon!

 

On fitting the old Housing: No, the right hand side of the Housing looks too bulky, more like the Sony X70 (the "Pro" version of the AX100).

 

In fact looking at the specs it seems to be pretty much a re-branded X70 (sans Handle). Many reasons not to get too excited:

* still only seems to do 30p in 4k - and I have already started to really appreciate the 4K 60p option on the GH5!

* still a 100Mbps codec.
* no more than 8bit in 4K

 

Nope, thats not quite it.

Edited by bubffm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks like they missed the boat on that one - shame...and surprised!

 

Well at least it makes me feel a bit warm inside, sticking with the GH4/5 as I was almost tempted by a AX100 previously

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The new Canon GX10 could be quite interesting! My AX100 Sony doesn't seem to have the brightness of color that my old Canon G10 did.

 

Looking at the pictures of the new Canon GX10 on B&H Photo's web site seemed fine - until I saw the "AIR INTAKE" and "EXHAUST VENT" labels on the right side of the new camera. I wonder if the 150 Mbps data rate causes some component(s) inside the camera to generate noticeable heat?

 

Any housing design for the GX10 would probably need to account for some heat transfer - trapping heat underwater couldn't be good, especially on hour+ dives.

 

Otherwise, I'm certainly tempted.

 

I've also looked at the advance information on the Sony AX700 which may replace the AX100; there doesn't seem to be enough increase in capability at first glance to be worth an upgrade. I didn't see any higher data rate, or frame rate.

 

I'm definitely staying tuned...

 

Tom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The new Canon GX10 could be quite interesting! My AX100 Sony doesn't seem to have the brightness of color that my old Canon G10 did.

 

Looking at the pictures of the new Canon GX10 on B&H Photo's web site seemed fine - until I saw the "AIR INTAKE" and "EXHAUST VENT" labels on the right side of the new camera. I wonder if the 150 Mbps data rate causes some component(s) inside the camera to generate noticeable heat?

 

Any housing design for the GX10 would probably need to account for some heat transfer - trapping heat underwater couldn't be good, especially on hour+ dives.

 

Otherwise, I'm certainly tempted.

 

I've also looked at the advance information on the Sony AX700 which may replace the AX100; there doesn't seem to be enough increase in capability at first glance to be worth an upgrade. I didn't see any higher data rate, or frame rate.

 

I'm definitely staying tuned...

 

Tom

 

I originally moved to Canon from Sony camcorders because of the color issues, so I am a bit wary of any Sony cameras right now.

 

Good catch on the air intake and exhausts. I had missed those. That could definitely be an issue, especially on longer dives as you point out.

 

Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, now it appears that Sony is also coming up with some new camcorders (Sony FDR-AX700, HXR-NX80, and PXW-Z90) as well. I wonder if their underwater white balance is any better than it used to be?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder if their underwater white balance is any better than it used to be?

 

Single 1" chip.... don't hold your breath!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Single 1" chip.... don't hold your breath!

 

Yeah, that's what I was worried about. Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sponsors

Advertisements



×
×
  • Create New...