RETRA Strobe Thread

[davehicks 89]

9 hours ago, Draq said:

Thanks, Tim.  I am sure it is not necessary or Retra would not ship them with the O rings installed, but I am not sure there is a downside to removing them, either.    Hopefully Oskar will comment.

That is a fine way to lose or damage your orings as you pack for a trip. It is all downside, no benefits. Are you going to remove the orings in your lights and regulators as well? 

[Oskar@RetraUWT 53]

Hi

No sense to remove o-rings for any air travel, there is no valve that would result in a pressure change in any of the chambers. It's actually better to keep them mounted as you risk damaging them while dismounting or getting them dirty while packed.

We have discovered recently that the lid of the Supercharger is much more difficult to remove (after being stationary for a couple days) if there is a gracious amount of silicone grease applied. This mistake was previously done in our workshop which is not surprising since it is counterintuitive. Solution: wipe away all silicone grease and when necessary lubricate only very slightly until the o-rings are shiny. This applies only to the top two o-rings on the Supercharger where the lid is mounted.

[TimG 62]

4 hours ago, Oskar@RetraUWT said:

This mistake was previously done in our workshop which is not surprising since it is counterintuitive.

Sure is! Thanks, Oskar. Good to know

[Draq 111]

Interesting on the lube, I will reduce the quantity of grease on the upper O rings per Oskar's instructions, and leave O rings on. 

DaveHicks:  Thank you for your input.  I have not forgotten or lost dive photo O rings in the past 15 or so years, including the baggie of spares I always take, so I am not too worried about that.  I generally follow manufacturer advice on maintenance and care and was unsure what Retra recommended or others may have experienced, and have not yet gotten the superchargers on a dive trip.

 

 

 

[Jean Raphael 0]

Bonjour,

Nous sommes trois photographes à posséder chacun deux flashes Retra Pro X dont deux avec convertisseur UW Tecnics (Canon 5D4 et Nikon D500)et un avec  Turtle (Nikon D7200)

Aucun de nous n'arrive à avoir de bonnes expositions en positions TTL malgré des milliers d'expositions et ce dans des  conditions différentes et avec le Firmware 2.17.

Possesseurs de Retra Pro X avez vous réussi à avoir un TTL efficace ?

[TimG 62]

20 minutes ago, Jean Raphael said:

Possesseurs de Retra Pro X avez vous réussi à avoir un TTL efficace ?

Hmm, bizarre.

J'ai des Pro X avec un D500 et le convertisseur UW Technics pour le Subal.  Normalement je fais d'expositions sans TTL, mais je peux verifier avec TTL ce weekend.

[ChrisRoss 150]

5 hours ago, Jean Raphael said:

Bonjour,

Nous sommes trois photographes à posséder chacun deux flashes Retra Pro X dont deux avec convertisseur UW Tecnics (Canon 5D4 et Nikon D500)et un avec  Turtle (Nikon D7200)

Aucun de nous n'arrive à avoir de bonnes expositions en positions TTL malgré des milliers d'expositions et ce dans des  conditions différentes et avec le Firmware 2.17.

We are three photographers to each have two Retra Pro X flashes, two with UW Tecnics converter (Canon 5D4 and Nikon D500) and one with Turtle (Nikon D7200)

 

None of us manage to have good exposures in TTL positions despite thousands of exposures and this in different conditions and with Firmware 2.17.

 

Owners of Retra Pro X have you managed to have an effective TTL?

 

Sorry I don't speak French, but google translation above seems good.  I would suggest TTL has a lot more to do with the camera body underwater than with the strobe.  The strobe is only imitating the signals received from the camera/flash trigger combination.   Typically experiences with TTL for wide angle shots is not so good and it is not that reproducible as the camera recalculates flash exposure with each frame.  Typically TTL is reported to be better for macro than for wide angle, probably as there is often less water in the frame for macro images.  It seems that some brands of camera do better with underwater TTL than others based upon reports I have seen in this forum.

 

Exposure compensation in the strobe is also problematic as the strobe needs to read the full pulse length and then use a look up table to adjust pulse length after it has read the pulse.  The strobe and the camera don't know anything about each other the strobe only responds to the length of pulse received and the camera likewise reads back the light received and makes decisions on exposure based upon that.

 

This is why a great many photographers typically use manual exposure, it is not particularly difficult. Pick an aperture and ISO then adjust power .  You will get the same exposure on your subject if it is about the same distance away .  The short range of flash when underwater means that power needed does not vary widely.  Typically with wide angle flash for many applications you will 0.5- 1m away and the exposure difference  in this range is relatively small. 

 

 

[Barmaglot 228]

6 hours ago, ChrisRoss said:

Owners of Retra Pro X have you managed to have an effective TTL?

I have the original Retra Pro rather than X, but I also haven't been able to achieve effective TTL either with the UWT converter or with the pop-up flash; everything seems to come out way too dark.

[ChrisRoss 150]

1 hour ago, Barmaglot said:

I have the original Retra Pro rather than X, but I also haven't been able to achieve effective TTL either with the UWT converter or with the pop-up flash; everything seems to come out way too dark.

Yes I expect it has more to do with the camera model than the strobe.  I do recall a few Sony users reporting TTL worked for them in wide angle, but don't recall which model it was.  Have you had any success with macro TTL? or is all TTL bad for your setup?

[Barmaglot 228]

I don't recall trying it in macro, only wide-angle.

[Oskar@RetraUWT 53]

Regarding TTL, the firmware updates from 2.17 onwards for the Pro X and Prime X have improved the accuracy and range of TTL especially with LED triggers, it really shows the capability of the new triggering system in the X models. The existing TTL profile for PRO and Prime models is maybe not ideal because the TTL curve has been shifted for the added range. My suggestion is to try with another TTL profile which can be set on the UW Technics trigger board. The one for Subtronic 160 maybe better suited with some small adjustment within camera flash compensation. We have been in touch with Pavel from UW Technics and in a few months he will prepare a TTL profile specially for the X models.

On the topic of firmware updates we have recently published a new series of updates (3.4 for the X models and 4.3 for the PRO&Prime). There are many small improvements and bug fixes to the operation of the flashgun, you can read the full list in the user manual topic "FW UPDATE DETAILS".

Besides this we have released a new diffuser called "Soft diffuser". It sits between the Wide angle diffuser and the White diffuser. Basically it offers a softer light which was previously associated with the WA diffuser but without the noticeable color shift. It is already available in our shop: https://www.retra-uwt.com/collections/shop/products/soft-diffuser 

 

[Redwing 8]

I’m considering purchasing a pair of Retra Pro X strobes with the Supercharger. We have several liveaboard trips lined up and I’m interested in hearing how folks on this thread handle battery management.

It looks like I need 32 batteries and at least one 8 battery charger in order keep battery changes to one per day, assuming 3-4 dives.  Does that sound right?

[TimG 62]

Hi Redwing

I've just done a 7-day  liveaboard in the Caribbean with 2x Retra Pro-Xs both fitted with Superchargers.

We did 4 dives a day evenly spaced during daylight hours. I tended to use a wide-angle lens and Retras with diffusers for the 2x morning dives; then 2x macro dives in the afternoon usually with one Retra with a snoot and one with Retra macro rings. Probably around 250-300 images each day. Superchargers were always fitted.

In general the 8-batteries needed for each Retra/Supercharger were enough for one day. There were one or two days when, if I expected I would use a snoot heavily, I would change one strobe battery set for, say the 4th dive. I find using the snoot makes quite a difference on battery life as I often have that strobe on maximum power especially if using the smaller mask openings. 

I had 2x4 AA chargers (EBL type) plugged into a USB charger with me and 32 batteries. In practice I never had a problem running out of charged batteries. I had thought about getting an extra x8 charger but really didn't need it.

[Oskar@RetraUWT 53]

Update: a mistake in the App resulted in the App not recognizing that there is a firmware update available. This has been resolved now. Please download the new Retra UWT App (v1.9.9) and update your flashguns to the latest firmware, 3.4 for the X models and 4.3 for the PRO&Prime.

[Redwing 8]

Just unboxed a pair of Retro Pro X flashguns with superchargers, wide angle diffusers and an LSD snoot.  Very impressive.  Placed fresh batteries in the flashguns and checked battery level and test fired both.  Connected the strobes to the app on my smartphone and upgraded to version 3.4 of the firmware.

After upgrading to version 3.4 firmware I am unable to test fire the strobes when in the "BATT/TEST" mode.  Is this by design?

From the firmware upgrade summary:  ""Always batt" mode has been disabled on all flashguns due (sic) high probability of false battery readings while the flashgun is in operation.  Please use the BATT/TEST for battery indication.  More details in the topic BATT/TEST."

Thanks in advance for any assistance.

[Oskar@RetraUWT 53]

54 minutes ago, Redwing said:

After upgrading to version 3.4 firmware I am unable to test fire the strobes when in the "BATT/TEST" mode.  Is this by design?

No, test firing in batt/test mode works just the same after the update. If you are in bluetooth mode (blue light on the indicator) test firing does not work. Exit bluetooth mode by going to any other mode or turn the flashgun off and on.

[Redwing 8]

1 hour ago, Oskar@RetraUWT said:

No, test firing in batt/test mode works just the same after the update. If you are in bluetooth mode (blue light on the indicator) test firing does not work. Exit bluetooth mode by going to any other mode or turn the flashgun off and on.

Thanks.  That worked.

[Silvana 2]

Hi everyone,

New member of Retra family here! I just got one Retra Flash Pro X with the supercharger and LSD (will get a second one later). I dive primarily in the dark cold water of South California so macro is what I do most of the time. I am transitioning for a setup with Sea and Sea YS-D3 with S&S snoot. Today was my first dive with the new strobe/supercharger/LSD. Everybody talks about the steep learning curve, so I am prepared for that. In actuality it was not too terrible, I did get about 3 decent shots

The question I have is this: you take a photo, pilot light goes off, then comes back when strobe is charged and ready to shoot again, right? Only that in more than few instances, I got a black screen even with the pilot light on and illuminating the subject.

I appreciate any comments anyone can offer. My camera is Nikon D850 with Isotta housing, shooting in M mode (camera and stobes).

Thank you!

 

 

Edited July 23, 2022 by Silvana

[Oskar@RetraUWT 53]

Hi Silvana, the pilot light always comes back on after about 0,5-1 second, it’s not connected to recycle time. There is usually a sound “beep” from the flashgun when it recycles and the indicator light changes color.

[TimG 62]

17 hours ago, Silvana said:

Only that in more than few instances, I got a black screen even with the pilot light on and illuminating the subject

Hi Silvana

Does this happen after you've taken the shot? If that is the case, I'd suspect it's under-exposure - nothing more complicated than that.

I do find that if you are shooting with the LSD into a non-reflective surface underwater (so, not sand but say a darkish colour of coral: red, orange, green) or a "hole" then  you need to increase the strobe output setting to about 50 or even higher. This is based on ISO200, 1/250, f18. This, I find, is particularly the case if you are using one of the smaller circular masks.

If you take a series of pics at that setting I do find sometimes that I'll still get an under-exposure if I don't give the strobe time to catch up recharging. I'm using a Pro-X too. 

Hope this might help a little.

[Silvana 2]

Thanks Oskar. For Sea and Sea strobes I have been using, the pilot light would not come on until the strobe is recharged, so it's good to know that Retra strobe is different. However I must say I wish it was the same as I found the feature very helpful. I honestly did not pay attention to any sound, but I will run some tests on the land and be more observant.

Thank you for the reply!

[Silvana 2]

29 minutes ago, TimG said:

Hi Silvana

Does this happen after you've taken the shot? If that is the case, I'd suspect it's under-exposure - nothing more complicated than that.

I do find that if you are shooting with the LSD into a non-reflective surface underwater (so, not sand but say a darkish colour of coral: red, orange, green) or a "hole" then  you need to increase the strobe output setting to about 50 or even higher. This is based on ISO200, 1/250, f18. This, I find, is particularly the case if you are using one of the smaller circular masks.

If you take a series of pics at that setting I do find sometimes that I'll still get an under-exposure if I don't give the strobe time to catch up recharging. I'm using a Pro-X too. 

Hope this might help a little.

Hi Tim,

Yes is after a shot. I started with 50% power, ISO100, 1/250, f22, hearing that this strobe has some power. But it was surely way underexposed and as such, all my following shots were at 100% power, 1/200 and f22. With these settings, I would normally get good exposure with Sea&Sea snoot (which btw is an empty tube with a prism inside to redirect pilot light from side to center). I would say I had similar exposure with Retra LSD, if not slightly less with Retra (certainly not more). I did not use any of the circular masks yet, perhaps next weekend I can put them to a test as well. Attached is one of my better shot of the day. I think some of the resolution got cut off but you get an idea about the exposure.

Thank you for your thoughts!

Edited July 24, 2022 by Silvana

[TimG 62]

I like the pic, Silvana. Very moody. That looks about how many of my LSD pics would appear depending on the background.

I have found the masks really helpful - well the main two anyway that consist of simple circles. Usually I'd start with the widest and work toward smaller. 

[Silvana 2]

27 minutes ago, TimG said:

I like the pic, Silvana. Very moody. That looks about how many of my LSD pics would appear depending on the background.

I have found the masks really helpful - well the main two anyway that consist of simple circles. Usually I'd start with the widest and work toward smaller. 

Thanks so much Tim!

[Silvana 2]

On 7/28/2020 at 3:08 AM, Oskar@RetraUWT said:

Roughly speaking somewhere around 6-25% power should be used for those settings depending on the mask you are using, actual distance from the subject, subject color, etc. The LSD Ultimate snoot has a focus distance of about 175mm in water. Moving the snoot farther will give a softer edge with even light distribution but when the snoot is positioned too close it will reduce the light output and a dark spot will form in the center. See image below. The square mask is great for finding the focus distance because the corners can be clearly seen as sharp when the LSD is in focus.

Please note that smaller apertures on the mask also reduce the light output. 

The LSD Ultimate snoot for the Original Retra Flash has the same style bayonet mount and it can be mounted to the new Retra Flash PRO/Prime but optically it is not compatible and makes the effect above even worse. The difference is in the length and the diffuser: the Mounting module for the new Retra Flash is about 43mm long, for the Original Retra Flash it was about 33mm. 

Hi Oskar,

I am new at using this snoot for macro (I used others that are simpler), did one dive with it and just about to go for 2 more this weekend. Based on this illustration you presented, is it the Useful Range that we should aim for? I certainly won't want to be at the focus distance as the edges are harsh. I was hoping it was the Working Distance range we want as it seems to have stronger light, only that I see now the mentioning of the dark spot in the middle. Thank you for support through this forum!

Silvana