DX to FX and back again

[TimG 62]

With the arrival of the highly rated Nikon D500, I wondered if anyone has experience of moving from full frame (FX) to - or back to - DX? Any D800 or D810 users out there who have moved to a D500?

 

I'm interested in what you think about it. I found the move from the D300 to the D800 amazing in terms of resolution, crop-ability and the richness of colours. I wondered how much - if anything - you might lose moving from a D8xx to the D500 - other than the massive, croppable files.

 

Folks using a D500 underwater, are you delighted with it? Just happy? Or so-so? Or hate it??!

 

Thanks!

 

 

[Pavel Kolpakov 74]

Hi Tim,

 

I use underwater FX and DX Nikons all my life, compare them from time to time. 10 years ago i would say that FX was better for me, because of dynamic range. But the time is going, DX cameras become much better in that parameter and now there is no great difference. Personally for me currently Nikon DX gives some more advantages:

1) Quality of DX Fisheye 10.5mm is still the best among all fisheyes,

2) more easy to shoot macro (60mm lens on DX, instead of 105mm on FX),

3) DOF is much better, DX forgives small mistakes in focusing. I like sharp underwater pictures.

Edited May 20, 2017 by Pavel Kolpakov

[TimG 62]

Thanks Pavel.

 

Some interesting thoughts indeed

[trimix125 73]

Hi,
had only used FX ( D610) above surface,
but uw i stay with DX.
Was using a D300 und then a m43 System, but now back with a D500.
In my thoughts the question is what is your goal?
Wideangle or fisheye is fine in FX, macro and cfwa is better in DX.
What do you most? Thats the question what you will need / use...
Looking for a fast wide angle for DX is hopeless....
On the other side is a moderate macro lens on a FX System simply to short...
Regards,
Wolfgang

[TimG 62]

Hi Wolfgang

 

I moved from the D300 to the D800 and was blown away by the increased dynamic range especially in wide-angle pics. I don't want to lose that in any move back to DX.

 

And I liked the cropping ability that the FX gave over the DX format for macro pics.

 

What do I do most? Hard to answer really: working in Lembeh it was all macro (60mm or 105mm) on a D300 . Leisure trips recently have been wide-angle territory with the D800. But maybe my preference is for macro.

 

I don't think I have ever used "fast" wide-angle. It was the Tokina 10-17 on the D300; and now either the Nikkor 16-35 or more often the Sigma 15mm for the D800 in wide-angle. I guess I'd go back to the Tokina with DX.

 

Hmmmmm....... decisions, decisions

 

Thanks for your advice. Best wishes

 

Tim

[trimix125 73]

Hi Tim,
had my D300 in Lembeh, and still love the pics, or to be true dont belive them.....
Have enjoyed the m43 for macro, the Oly 60mm is a great lens,
but with the goal to shoot thresher sharks without aditional light,
found the end of possibilities with that System.
The sensor is to small, the multiplication for the lenses to big.....
So i invested in a D500 rig. Same place, but bad vis and no sun made it much harder to get nice pics....
A lot more weight is to carry, but the results were ok ;-))

No question that there was a lot of improofment between D300 and D800!
But i am happy with the D500 now.

For macros superb, for wide angle ok, fast DX ultra wide (weitwinkel) lenses would be a dream....
On the other side i can now screw up iso to 4000 and still get no eye cancer ;-))

The D500 with the Sigma 18 - 35mm f1,8 is a great combi!

Regards,
Wolfgang

[eyu 27]

Tim,

 

So the question is, does the D500 have the same WOW factor as the D800 or D810 photos?

 

Does the D500 20.9 mp photo equal or surpass D800, D810 36 mp photo in overall quality ?

 

Elmer

[TimG 62]

Tim,

 

So the question is, does the D500 have the same WOW factor as the D800 or D810 photos?

 

Does the D500 20.9 mp photo equal or surpass D800, D810 36 mp photo in overall quality ?

 

Elmer

Yep, that sums it up, Elmer!

 

Am I going to think, arrrrgh, I should have stuck with the D800

[SwiftFF5 134]

First, I have no experience with either the D500 (yet) or the D800/D810. However, being an old school film shooter, it reminds me of the days when most people were shooting 35 mm film, I got myself an old Speed Graphic and began shooting 4X5 color slide film. Wow, the images just popped out at you. It was truly amazing how much better the larger format looked. Of course, pixel counts aren't everything especially with digital where the electronic technology and software/firmware is just as important, but it sure made a difference when shooting film, and this was comparing the same film just a different size format. Just another opinion to confuse things further...

[TimG 62]

First, I have no experience with either the D500 (yet) or the D800/D810. However, being an old school film shooter, it reminds me of the days when most people were shooting 35 mm film, I got myself an old Speed Graphic and began shooting 4X5 color slide film. Wow, the images just popped out at you. It was truly amazing how much better the larger format looked. Of course, pixel counts aren't everything especially with digital where the electronic technology and software/firmware is just as important, but it sure made a difference when shooting film, and this was comparing the same film just a different size format. Just another opinion to confuse things further...

 

 

LOL, gee, thanks for that SwiftFF5! Oddly I had never thought of a Speed Graphic....

 

Anyone else who has some really excellent opinions to confuse things, don't hesitate to fire 'em in. God knows I need more confusion in my life

 

(Just kidding, of course. All opinions and responses are much appreciated: they help me delay spending the money....)

[trimix125 73]

Hi Tim,
have you thought about lending a D500 to compaire?
IDid this last year, had a "perfect" reason, my girl friends sister was going to marry, and i had to do the pics...
I had a D610 and a D7100 at that time, bought the D610 for that reason, and then lended a D500 and the Sigma 18 - 35mm 1,8 from a professional service for the weekend.
So i had a chance to compare the cameras, get an idea of which one would be fine for me.
Winner was the D500, simply because of focus speed and the combi with the sigma lens was great!
Sold the D610 shortly afterwards, was very slow in low light focus, needs bigger & heavier lenses...

If you really think about the pro and cons, you have to put your hands on both cameras, and then you will know ;-))
This is really worth the lending costs.

Regards,
Wolfgang

PS:
@ SwiftFF5
means a Hasselblad with digital back would win ;-)))

[TimG 62]

Thanks! Yeah, that's a good idea. I have handled one and it has the classic Nikon feel.

 

It's just how it compares underwater that is much harder to test.

[eyu 27]

Tim,

 

I think the only way to compare the D500 vs the D800 is to take the same exposure of the same subject with both using the same lens.

Then process their photos the same way and see if you can see a difference.

 

Elmer

[SwiftFF5 134]

Wolfgang

 

PS:

@ SwiftFF5

means a Hasselblad with digital back would win ;-)))

 

Amen to that - I would love to get my hands on a Hasselblad with a digital back. That would be a dream camera for me. Way out of my price range though.

[TimG 62]

Tim,

 

I think the only way to compare the D500 vs the D800 is to take the same exposure of the same subject with both using the same lens.

Then process their photos the same way and see if you can see a difference.

 

Elmer

Totally agree, Elmer. Doing that underwater would, wait, likely involve me buying a housing for the D500......

 

Oh the temptation, the temptation.

[eyu 27]

Totally agree, Elmer. Doing that underwater would, wait, likely involve me buying a housing for the D500......

 

Oh the temptation, the temptation.

Tim,

 

I think if you just do it on land, that should be good enough. Just rent or borrow a D500 to compare.

 

To muddy the waters more, Nikon is coming out with a replacement for the D810, rumored to be 42 mp with D5 focusing

 

Elmer

[TimG 62]

Could the waters be any more muddy, Elmer?

 

You reckon a topside comparison (D500/D800) would be the same?

[eyu 27]

Could the waters be any more muddy, Elmer?

 

You reckon a topside comparison (D500/D800) would be the same?

Tim,

 

You should be able to see any difference in the photos between the two bodies with the settings, lens being the same.

 

Elmer

[halbrightphoto 0]

The D500 is an amazing camera. I love mine though I haven't taken it underwater yet. It responds like a pro-body which is not true for the D800. The D500 focuses faster, and responds faster in every way. The only downside is smaller file but given the generational improvement that might not be that significant. If you were comparing the D810 to the D500 that would be more of an issue.

[trimix125 73]

Hi Tim,
to make it a bit harder for you ;-))
Have this year february been at the same place like the last year in Malapascua....
This time was a lot harder, was ill, lots of rain, and currents, bad vis....
Was really surpriesed what the D500 made in that conditions...
Send me an email adress where i can send you bigger pics.
Dont think i forgett you when it takes longer, just high season at the moment...
Regards,
Wolfgang

[Tom_Kline 137]

Justification for sticking with FX may be announced shortly:

https://nikonrumors.com/2017/05/29/confirmed-nikon-to-announce-a-new-nikkor-af-s-8-15mm-f3-5-4-5e-ed-fisheye-lens.aspx/

Especially if this is anything like the Canon 8-15 qualitywise.

 

No longer a rumor:

http://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/product/camera-lenses/af-s-fisheye-nikkor-8-15mm-f%252f3.5-4.5e-ed.html#tab-ProductDetail-ProductTabs-Overview

Note the minimum focusing distance!!!!!

Edited May 31, 2017 by Tom_Kline

[TimG 62]

Justification for sticking with FX may be announced shortly:

https://nikonrumors.com/2017/05/29/confirmed-nikon-to-announce-a-new-nikkor-af-s-8-15mm-f3-5-4-5e-ed-fisheye-lens.aspx/

Especially if this is anything like the Canon 8-15 qualitywise.

 

No longer a rumor:

http://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/product/camera-lenses/af-s-fisheye-nikkor-8-15mm-f%252f3.5-4.5e-ed.html#tab-ProductDetail-ProductTabs-Overview

Note the minimum focusing distance!!!!!

 

Hey Tom

 

Yeah, I saw that this morning. Sounds a pretty funky lens! But just how useful is a 180 x 180 circular fisheye - after the first dozen Wow photos?

[Tom_Kline 137]

 

Hey Tom

 

Yeah, I saw that this morning. Sounds a pretty funky lens! But just how useful is a 180 x 180 circular fisheye - after the first dozen Wow photos?

 

I have two copies of the Canon version. I have used both at the same time with each housing set up with a different diameter port to accommodate different water depths. This lens is my most used lens. The Nikon 10.5mm is my most used Nikon lens.

 

The the 8mm end is specialized. The lens shade must come off the port which exposes it to potential damage so I have used the 8mm setting sparingly and taken extra precaution to reduce the chance of having the port crash into the bottom when used in streams. I have just one resulting "winner" shot.

 

I got around to using it on an APSC sensor this year (topside shots). I am currently using one on an APSH sensor camera with a 100mm diameter port to use in very shallow water, e.g., 8 cm. However the characteristics more important IMHO are weatherproofing and close-focus ability. These characteristics also apply to this new Nikon lens. The old 16mm D lens was lacking in this department. The only downside for both brands is a smaller maximum aperture compared to the old primes.For underwater use this mainly affects focusing at low light levels. New cameras, however, are improved in their ability to focus in low light negating this issue.

[JamesR 26]

I would not move from my D810 to a D500 for underwater. For me, it doesn't make sense. New housing, new glass, less resolution, less color depth, and less dynamic range. Nope.

 

If I change cameras, it'll be to something smaller. For me a Dx body isn't really smaller enough to make it worth the change. I don't do video often, and not need 4k either.

[TimG 62]

Hi James

 

Interesting. I wonder if there's less of a dynamic range and colour depth difference between the D800 and D500?

 

Those two are important to me and I don't want to lose them.