Thoughts: Sony A7R II from D810

[JamesR 26]

I am thinking about a change in my setup for underwater, and am considering the Sony A7R II. On paper (don't need the A9 speed as I will only use this camera underwater), it seems pretty ideal, but I am a bit hesitant.

 

Some things I have thought of so far (and I feel like there's a lot I haven't) include:

 

Benefits of A7RII over D810

Smaller/lighter housing

4k video

Maybe better AF performance (not sure)

 

 

Negatives

Battery life!

 

*Having to buy and sell a bunch of different stuff

 

Any input on this would be appreciated...my other idea is to get a D850 haha!

 

 

I would go with Nauticam housing and such as that's what I have for my D810 now.

 

Thanks,

[adamhanlon 0]

Biggest problem and the end of the discussion (as far as I am concerned)

 

No decent fisheye option...

 

I guess we should also discuss the A7RII's autofocus too!

 

Adam

[Ricardo V. 2]

Adam,

When you mention "no decent fisheye option", are you refering to the Nikon or the Sony? Like the OP, I'm researching this Sony camera and want to learn more about it.

 

I understood that with an adapter, the Sony can shoot Canon lenses and some folks appear to be happy with results. In addition, Rokinon has fisheye lenses that appear to be gaining accolades from underwater photographers. I've read a few posts and articles from really good underwater photographers, including Phil Rubin, who I consider an authority in this field, and If I recall correctly, he seems to comment favorably on the Sony's ability to work with wide angle lenses made by others.

 

What have you seen or observed? Is the focus an issue too?

 

Thank you,

Ricardo

[John R McMillan 3]

Hi. I have the camera and a Nauticam housing. I moved over to the camera from a Canon 5d Mark III. The autofocus is not quite as fast, but that is not a big issue for me. I can't say anything about the D810 because I have never used it.

 

The battery life is shorter than the Canon. However, this is remedied by purchasing the extra battery pack that Nauticam makes. Extends battery life to the point where it is basically equal with the Canon. So that is no longer a concern.

 

Lastly, the housing is smaller and lighter. That is a big deal to me.

 

I love the camera for underwater work. But I have also decided to move forward with mirrorless.

 

Hope this helps

[JamesR 26]

Can you use the extra battery pack and a flash trigger at the same time?

 

The battery life, for me anyway, is a deal breaker. Having to open the case between every dive? Nope.

[John R McMillan 3]

I use the battery pack with hard wired strobes, no problem, and my battery life is equal to my Canon 5d mark III. No issues there for me at this point. The battery pack works well.

 

I do all of my underwater work in streams and I agree, opening the housing sucks. But, it is worth the tradeoff in size and mobility for me to have a smaller housing and setup. I am sure that is not the case for everyone though.

[Ricardo V. 2]

John,

What battery pack are you referring to? I see one that Backscatter has online that looks like an artisan craft project put together with epoxy. Is that it?

http://www.backscatter.com/reviews/post/Nauticam-A7II-UnderwaterExternal-Battery-Pack

It does not leave enough space for fiber optic trigger system, so you have a work around with cables. You have them routed through one of the caps for external monitor or vacuum valve right?

 

Thank you,

Ricardo

[hellhole 26]

Definitely... U can't put the fiber optic trigger if u use the battery. i do want to find out if u can use the sync cable with the battery.

 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

[John R McMillan 3]

John,

What battery pack are you referring to? I see one that Backscatter has online that looks like an artisan craft project put together with epoxy. Is that it?

http://www.backscatter.com/reviews/post/Nauticam-A7II-UnderwaterExternal-Battery-Pack

It does not leave enough space for fiber optic trigger system, so you have a work around with cables. You have them routed through one of the caps for external monitor or vacuum valve right?

 

Thank you,

Ricardo

Correct Ricardo. I am using that battery pack. You are right, there is not enough room for fiber optic trigger. Instead, I use a sync cord through one of the caps on top. I still have a vacuum valve and another cap that I use for a remote trigger. But the battery system is great. I tried yesterday to measure the difference in battery life with my Canon 5d markIII. The battery pack with Sony a7RII runs about 75% of the length of my Canon 5d markiii. So not quite as long, but certainly 3 hours or more and that is plenty for me. I then open up the housing and drop in another battery pack that is already charged.

 

All that said, you will need a thin hot shoe to make it work. A standard one if too thick. But Reef Photo constructed one for me that was great.

 

Hope this helps

Definitely... U can't put the fiber optic trigger if u use the battery. i do want to find out if u can use the sync cable with the battery.

 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

You can use the sync cable with the battery but you need a thin hotshoe. Reef Photo made one for me that worked very well.

Edited September 1, 2017 by John R McMillan

[JackConnick 76]

I've used a D800 for years now and have also shot the A7II in a Sea & Sea housing with a flash trigger.

 

I think while the housing size is a bit smaller, it's not all that much difference in the water. You have to use a port adapter, extension and mid-sized DSLR sized ports on the a7II. So what are you really saving?

 

I mostly use a Zen 170mm dome on the D800 with a Sigma 15, or even a 17-35mm if I don't care too much about the corners (blue water). Those are pretty much the same sized ports on the a7II.

 

As far as using Canon lenses on the a7II, it gets pretty awkward and the AF is even slower... There is a new Zeiss Batis 18mm lens that shows good promise. But all of the Sony lenses are expensive, the Sigma 15mm FE is like $600.

 

I didn't have battery problems on the a7II, but I mostly shot stills. Video is more of a problem. I do like that I can basically shoot all day with the D800 on one battery.

 

The viewfinder is one area that I'd also give a huge benefit to the D800. An optical viewfinder is so much brighter and easier to use than an EVF. Yes, you give up focus peaking and some of the other more electronic features that are nice. But again those are more useful for video. And of course the better, faster AF on the D800. I found that the a7II sort of jumps a bit for macro, manual focus is pretty much necessary.

 

The a7II is lighter. And my older D800 Nauticam isn't the lightest for sure. But I'm sure that the new D850 housings will be lighter as they will be a few gens newer.

 

I've also tried the Oly E-M1 MKII and D500 for something smaller, but I keep coming back to the dynamic range and quality of the D800, although I think if I was shopping right now, I'd buy a D500, I continue to be impressed with it.

 

I've some articles on these comparisons on my blog:

Micro 4/3rds vs. APS-C & Full-frame Cameras: Mexican Shootout or Standoff?

 

Sony a7II and Sea & Sea MDX-A7II Housing System Review

Jack

Edited September 1, 2017 by JackConnick

[JamesR 26]

Thanks Jack...I think you just sold me a NA-D850

[hellhole 26]

Correct Ricardo. I am using that battery pack. You are right, there is not enough room for fiber optic trigger. Instead, I use a sync cord through one of the caps on top. I still have a vacuum valve and another cap that I use for a remote trigger. But the battery system is great. I tried yesterday to measure the difference in battery life with my Canon 5d markIII. The battery pack with Sony a7RII runs about 75% of the length of my Canon 5d markiii. So not quite as long, but certainly 3 hours or more and that is plenty for me. I then open up the housing and drop in another battery pack that is already charged.

 

All that said, you will need a thin hot shoe to make it work. A standard one if too thick. But Reef Photo constructed one for me that was great.

 

Hope this helps

 

You can use the sync cable with the battery but you need a thin hotshoe. Reef Photo made one for me that worked very well.

Thanks for the reply. So you are saying the one that nauticam provide is not thin enough to put the battery and the sync cable for the hotshoe?

 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

[John R McMillan 3]

Hellhole

 

Correct. In fact, I did not see the original hot shoe connector but they made one that was slim so that you could also fit the battery pack into the space above the camera. I think it may have cost 75$ or something to modify, it was not that much. Someone with more electrical skills than I could easily do it themselves.

 

I hope this helps.

 

J

[Ricardo V. 2]

John,

Thank you for confirming this. Much appreciated. Happy to learn there is a workaround the battery stamina issue and the hot shoe.

Ricardo.

PS: I could see a combo fix that integrates an external battery, that sits in the hot shoe, and serves as led flash trigger.

Edited September 3, 2017 by Ricardo V.

[John R McMillan 3]

Ricardo

 

Good point on the led flash w/battery. I like it. I would rather use fiber optic for simplicity.

 

Take care

[hellhole 26]

This mod mainly I feel is for those more into video... On a a7 system

 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

[Paul Kay 65]

I've just spent two weeks diving in west Scotland with an A7II. Its a frustrating camera. It is capable of very good results indeed but it was a real fight to get it to operate as I wanted it to. And yes AF can be messy - it is happy to focus on suspended matter and persuading it not to was not always easy; over mud there was a lot of suspension. I can't compare it to an 810 but I still think that it and dSLRs are simply significantly different and have differing strengths and weaknesses. Battery life surprised me - 2 x hour plus dives in cool (13~14C) water without problem but I was not shooting video at all. I was interested in using the camera because its great strength for me is weight and I'm happy with it but I still have a housed dSLR too (with fisheye), so best of both worlds. I'm really torn over the A7 cameras - they are very capable, small and light and versatile, but frustrating in use both above and below water. I use it with Sony (above and below water) and Leica M lenses (above water).

[Ricardo V. 2]

Paul,

I'm very new to this specific camera, and found this YouTube video to be incredibly helpful. It's a bit long, but it reviews critically important controls and setting that A7R2 users need to master, if they want to have full control of it's focus power.

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5xr-i8LBb6g

 

I started my underwater photography hobby a little over 12 years ago, and can recall how frustrating it was not being able to control where my Canon 7D was focusing. After some repetition and practice, I was able to understand some of it's focusing features... but it was still guesswork.

 

I then fortuitously bought a video tutorial DVD, and the instructor explained in detail the different focusing features and functions, but more importantly, how to tell the camera exactly where and when to focus on something. This was a watershed moment for me. I did not know you could actually do that.

 

A couple of years later, while taking classes with Marty Snyderman, he took the time to evaluate where I was and set the bar even higher encouraging me to gain full control of ALL camera settings, aperture, shutter speed and ISO, instead of letting the camera decide for me, I would decide. That was an aha moment for me and ever since, I have been telling the camera what I want, instead of letting it guess what I want. It took practice, lots of practice, and time too... but now it's second nature.

 

Hope this helps. I've not dove this camera yet, but it has such a rich offering of focus controls that I think a bit of practice, following the tips offered in the video above, will let you decide.

 

Cheers,

Ricardo

[Ricardo V. 2]

Paul,

I'm just realizing you are a pro in the field of underwater photography. Hats off to you, please don't take my post in any way other than what I'm openly sharing as my true personal experience with the 7D, and now in preparation to soon dive with the Sony. I still think that the suggestions and comments I've offered stand, specially for people like me that are passionate about this hobby and can benefit from learning how to fully control any camera and it's features.

Cheers,

Ricardo

[Paul Kay 65]

Thanks Ricardo. Always interesting to see other's take on how stuff works. The problem I'm finding is that the camera can focus on stuff like suspended matter and changing this takes time which leads to lost shots. My problem is comparing it with a Canon dSLR which is far easier to shift things quickly. Over complexity is frustrating and can no doubt be dealt with by selecting a specific set of parameters but I'm not there yet.

Edited September 5, 2017 by Paul Kay

[adamhanlon 0]

My apologies for not picking up on this excellent thread.

 

Sony do not have a reasonable full frame fisheye option. This pretty much renders the A7 and A9 cameras limited for underwater use.

 

You can use converters, but these all to some extent affect focus speed and accuracy. They also add to the bulk of the housing.

 

I am very wary of the claims that manufacturers use in general, but particularly with regard to AF. Whilst mirrorless AF is improving, SLR AF is too. The AF on the newest Canon and Nikon SLRs is a generational improvement on the previous versions. Given how critical AF is for underwater use, this should influence our choices significantly!

 

Adam

[JustinBeevor 8]

Biggest problem and the end of the discussion (as far as I am concerned)

 

No decent fisheye option...

 

I guess we should also discuss the A7RII's autofocus too!

 

Adam

 

Tut tut Adam.

 

I've just sorted the Metabones MkV with Tokky 10-17 for my a6500. Top side, the AFC in green mode is very encouraging, so let's see what happens when I get to Socorro in a couple of months.

 

JB

[Ricardo V. 2]

I'm with you. It truly is interesting and often perplexing to see how others see or think things work. For some reason, I can't help but think of RPN calculators, which folks I work with.... including my self, still use today and firmly believe there is nothing better; however, we've be hard pressed to find a Reverse Polish Notation calculator anywhere.... go figure.

 

Back to the topic at hand. This YouTube video put together by a professional photographer helped me a lot.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xWXBS1D5aSk

He elaborates, explains benefits and demonstrates how to program or customize specific buttons the A7R2 to essentially perform focus acquiring and locking in keeping with what the end user wants. I'm sharing it here with the group. I found it beneficial and have implemented some of the suggested tips and tricks to better control focus features.

Cheers,

Ricardo

[echo2600 10]

Hey, now... don't be dissing my HP11c.... LOL!

[Ricardo V. 2]

Can't live without them. Love my 41C. Fortunately, there is an ap for that....