buddy 7 Posted January 1, 2018 I am hearing said new about Subal. They are bankrupt. insolvent. A continuation is unclear, production will be shifted entirely to Serbia. Service and warranty on current Subal gear is unclear. Pre-payments for ordered housing like ND850 are probably lost.... what a bull! http://unterwasserwelt.de/subal-gmbh-insolvent/ (only in German available at this time) a said start of 2018 in deed! Hope, there is a takeover who continues this! hhhmmm...why is that not reported already here at Wetpixel, the info is already 3 days old....? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cerianthus 55 Posted January 1, 2018 Probably because it is a weekend, new year and poor German reading skills :-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimG 62 Posted January 1, 2018 Wow, that is very sad news. And I took delivery of my ND500 housing only a few weeks ago! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buddy 7 Posted January 1, 2018 I was on the edge to order a ND850 housing, but didn't order it due to non-availability of the camera so far. Now, I am stuck, don't know what to do....still have my housing for the D4s, but... will probably switch over to Seacam or Nauticam...what a misery Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tangfish 7 Posted January 2, 2018 Well, there goes the ND-850 I've been waiting and waiting for! FML Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trimix125 73 Posted January 2, 2018 (edited) Hi,this is sad and true.....Thas declared on the 5. of december! But the company said no word. Even not in the german forums.....Designing and manufactoring of mostly parts was in serbia the last years, since Mr. Karl has bought the company.Only the assembling was still in austria.Mr. Karl said that the last producing place in austria will be closed, and everything will be done in serbia, only a small office will be left in austria.Think that will be his "shop" in vienna.Its not clear if and how it will be in the future.The payments for housings are falling in the insolvence package.As well if anybody has a housing there for service or repairing, it should be cleared with the Handelsgericht in Wien ( the company law court ).This must bedone before the 15. january!If anybody needs help for translation or Adresses, just ask.Regards,Wolfgang Edited January 2, 2018 by trimix125 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buddy 7 Posted January 2, 2018 no info on the Subal own website, but on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SUBAL.Austria I allow myself to quote it here. Maybe does not look that bad, maybe just marketing, P&R and wishful thinking. Don't know how that can go in line with an official bankruptcy of the company and its assets&liabilies.... There is also a first underwater testing of the new ND850 by Harald Slauschek, a Subal Pro Team Member. Don't know if he is active here. But Alex Mustard -another Subal Pro Team Member- maybe can throw some light into the issues here? Dear Subal customers, At the beginning of the new year we would like to share with you some news for 2018. For the past 50 years the production, sales and show room of our company have been located in Steyr, Austria. This turned out to be hard to reach for our international customers, which represent 96 percent of all our Subal users.The arrival at this location was difficult, since Steyr is not directly connected to the rail network of the Westbahn. Therefore, we have decided to close our production establishment in Steyr and transfer it.We are proud to announce, that in February, we will build a new, modern Subal show room and store in Vienna, Austria located at Schulgasse 2, 1180. Due to the opening of a store at the new location, it will be a lot easier to reach the airport without having to travel 200 kilometers from Vienna to Steyr and back. Our experienced service staff will continue to work for service the housings at our current location in Steyr. There, we have set up a new service department. Subal-Service, Schönauerstraße 7, 4400 Steyr, Austria.We take pride to tell you, that we are able to service all Subal housings ever made, we have almost all spare parts for it and are able to produce them if it is necessary. We are looking forward to meeting you at the “Boot“ dive show in Düsseldorf, Germany where we will show all Subal products in hall number 4. In addition, we are happy to work and cooperate in the future and wish you the best of luck for 2018. Yours, Subal Team ups something went wrong with copy & paste... just read it on facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SUBAL.Austria he? now it works...strange in deed! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tangfish 7 Posted January 2, 2018 Interestingly there is no mention of the transition of some (most?) operations to Serbia. Ironically, that announcement from Subal was posted from a location in.... Serbia. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buddy 7 Posted January 2, 2018 yeah...good catch. very confusing & contradictory. No mentioning of any kind of bankruptcy, although officially announced by the Vienna court. And then he says to close the Steyr establishment "and transfer it", but later to run the Steyr location again for service work...total strange&confusing. Will have to wait for clear answers, for me for sure before ordering... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buddy 7 Posted January 2, 2018 Wolfgang, do you know more in the meantime? You seem to be closer on the hot-spot locally...thanks Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tangfish 7 Posted January 2, 2018 This can cause a very bad downward spiral. If people like you and me postpone or reconsider our Subal orders then that adds to their cash flow problems, which in turn causes more uncertainty about Subal’s future as a manufacturer, and so on and so forth. I’ve been holding on and holding on waiting for the ND-850 which was supposed to begin shipping in mid-November. I still believe Subal makes a superior product but even if that is the case I don’t want a housing for which I may not be able to obtain spare parts or service down the road. I usually use a housing for at least 5 years and after reading that article about the court actions in Austria... I don’t think anyone can predict with accuracy what shape the company will be in 5 years from now. It’s a shame because I would really rather not switch to another brand of housing (and buy all new ports in the process). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buddy 7 Posted January 2, 2018 same for me, don't want to change. Was a happy camper for about 15 years with Subal. The current one is my 4th housing...But I want a clear view on the actual and future situation, before throwing money down the road...The company's non- or unclear information is no good PR strategy... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pavel Kolpakov 82 Posted January 2, 2018 (edited) Factory is relocating. I suppose that previous company will be closed, using bankrupt procedure. Probably, Subal will use another company for sales. I don't see a great problem in that. Looking to some details, i guess that Subal will continue produce housings. Edited January 2, 2018 by Pavel Kolpakov Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trimix125 73 Posted January 2, 2018 Hi,interresting that in the face book message is no word about their bankrupt......The bankrupt is in the offical newspapers that makes these announcements!Means that Subal / Mr. Karl is getting rid of open bills, and maybe other things.......If Steyr is such a bad place for working, and no airport around, why leave the service their?Mr Karl has a shop at this adress in vienna, called Foto Nautica,this was his start in underwater photography buisiness...And the shop is still running, so not a big change in logistik things.A problem it is only for people who made payments This is a company who deals with open bills and bankrupt things.Payments or open bills up to 5000.- will be for free.Everything more gets some % of the summ.The adress below is the lawer who is chairman in this case.https://www.myksv.at/NASApp/web/free/insTicker/showInsTickerDetail.do?iKey=HEJGLL7 KSV1870 Nummer: 7027167 Schuldner: SUBAL GmbH Adresse: 1180 Wien, Schulgasse 2 Insolvenzart: Konkursverfahren Insolvenznummer: 163884 Antragsteller: Schuldner Gericht: HG-Wien Geschäftszahl: 28 S 151/17k Eröffnung: 05.12.2017 Anmeldefrist: 15.01.2018 Tagsatzung: 29.01.2018; 10:45 Uhr; Zimmer 1608 Tagsatzungsart: Prüfungs- und Berichtstagsatzung Masseverwalter: Dr. Christian Bachmann Rechtsanwalt 1010 Wien, Opernring 8 Regards,Wolfgang Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buddy 7 Posted January 2, 2018 Wolfgang, I don't think that under European insolvency laws claims with lower values (under 5000.-) are being able to be exempted and repaid without losses. I was reading from a Vienna lawyer that they will take claims under 5000 for free for registering only, one has only to pay € 23 for court fees... Normally under insolvency laws, some privileged claim categories like mortgages and collaterals go first in clearing, then employee's claims and open social securities claims from the government as well as taxes and finally all others' including customer prepayments as well as producers receivables will be cleared off by a percentage at the best, if enough salable assets are still around. Just want to make that clear; otherwise some "hopes" might be destroyed again later-on... https://www.akv.at/insolvenz/1231913/subal-gmbh.php Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buddy 7 Posted January 2, 2018 Factory is relocating. I suppose that previous company will be closed, using bankrupt procedure. Probably, Subal will use another company for sales. I don't see a great problem in that. Looking to some details, i guess that Subal will continue produce housings. can they take out the trade name "Subal" and patents and put these into a new company for continuation? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Geo Cloete 6 Posted January 2, 2018 Sad and confusing news indeed. I was also nearing placing an order for an ND850, but would not do so until I have crystal clarity on what all this means for Subal owners. It does make sense that the main Subal office should be located at a location easier to access and one wonders why this was not done a long time ago.Hopefully, another lesson will be learned from all this. In the current market, it's crucial to have great PR and communicate effectively with your market. Sadly from my experience, Subal lacks in this department and I can only hope that they will address it asap. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alex_Mustard 0 Posted January 2, 2018 There is also a first underwater testing of the new ND850 by Harald Slauschek, a Subal Pro Team Member. Don't know if he is active here. But Alex Mustard -another Subal Pro Team Member- maybe can throw some light into the issues here? Dear Subal customers, We are looking forward to meeting you at the “Boot“ dive show in Düsseldorf, Germany where we will show all Subal products in hall number 4. Yours, Subal Team https://www.facebook.com/SUBAL.Austria I don't have any insight at all - everything I know about this I have learned from this thread. My feeling is that this is probably not a big deal - and although sounds dramatic is probably just how they will restructure their business. I says people might loose deposits - but I am not sure if anyone is actually affected by this. Whenever I have ordered a housing, I have paid when I have got it - not given a deposit first. I think that Subal have already machined their housings in Serbia for a few tears. And this suggests that they will probably now completely build them there - rather than assemble in Steyr. I guess that they want to be thought of as Subal Austria - so don't talk about this in their release. It also seems very sensible to have a main showroom/operations in Vienna - which is much more accessible than the remote Steyr. While keeping the experienced service staff operating in Steyr is probably sensible too, rather than asking them to move to Vienna. Hopefully Subal will release a bit more information to answer specific concerns from customers. even though the BOOT show is just a few weeks away now - when people will be speak to them face to face. Alex Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trimix125 73 Posted January 2, 2018 Hi Buddy,you are right.But i thought it wiould be clear that only some percentage of the money will come back if lucky......I had a claim in the company there i would have gotten 5%, so it was not worth paing the curt fee...Its an easy way to restart when you have depts....And Subal will not write to much, otherwise they get more recoverable claim.Regards,Wolfgang Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
adamhanlon 0 Posted January 2, 2018 Hi all, This is very sad to hear. My thoughts go out to all affected by it. Until the company releases more details, it is uncertain whether this is an attempt to restructure the company, or something more serious. In the interim, I have posted what I know and can glean from the sources I have on the front page: http://wetpixel.com/articles/subal-experiences-financial-issues Can I ask that if people get more details, they share them here? Many thanks for the input so far, and as I said above, it all seems very sad. Adam Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
okuma 64 Posted January 2, 2018 Any one know if manufacturing/assembly/export costs are lower in Serbia? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tangfish 7 Posted January 3, 2018 Manufacturing costs are a lot cheaper there than in places like Austria and Germany. I just talked to a friend who has a lot of manufacturing operations in that part of the world and he said Serbia should be no problem in terms of labor and infrastructure needed for manufacturing stuff like our housings. There is a lot of component manufacturing done there for the German auto manufacturers, for example. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trimix125 73 Posted January 3, 2018 Hi,the personal costs in serbia will be 50% or less than in austria.Its a lot easier to set up a company there, the standards for enviroment protection and industrial safety are a lot lower than here in austria.The production for some parts had been there before, now the assembling and end controlls will be done there as well.Drilling a hole is one thing, fitting everything watterproof together the other ;-))Dont know if they have a special customs deal with the EU.But that would only rise the prices in europe. For overseas the custom fees had to be paid in the past as well.Regards,Wolfgang Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
adamhanlon 0 Posted January 3, 2018 Hi all, Subal's owner, Harald Karl has reached out to me to clarify the situation. All housing production and assembly will be carried out in Belgrade. Servicing, repairs along with viewfinder and port assembly will stay at Steyr Sales, shipping and company headquarters will be based in Vienna. A new showroom will open in March 2018, wherein the whole range will be viewable. By applying for temporary insolvency as they shutter the Steyr production and assembly facility, it offers financial advantages. According to Harald, the decision to file for bankruptcy is a purely temporary commercial one and does not relate to the health of the company. He is unequivocal in stating the customers will not be affected by this in any way. All pre-order, deposits and repairs will be actioned as planned: “Through this process, no one will lose anything! No housings which are pre-paid, or housings that are currently being serviced or repaired!” I have updated the front page post to reflect his response. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimG 62 Posted January 3, 2018 Phew... thanks, Adam. Fingers crossed. Having just taken my Subal D500 housing on it's first trip (and having gone through D100, D200, D300 and D800 housings) I'd be gutted if this excellent product had reached the end of the road. Good on Harald contacting you. Tim Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
