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Angusparker

For GH5: Pana14-42/WWL-1 or Pana30/MWL-1 for wide and macro? Add CMC1?

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The Pana30/MWL-1 seems like a more manageable system underwater for wide and macro/portraits. Wondering if the Pana30 can be used with CMC1 for better macro performance. Anyone have experience with both set ups trying to do wide and macro on the same dive? Thanks for your help.

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Would not recommend a prime plus wet lens and 30mm is not really the most common portrait length unless you have dark waters and particles


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Would not recommend a prime plus wet lens and 30mm is not really the most common portrait length unless you have dark waters and particles


Thank you for your thoughts. Just thinking 30mm on 1” sensor is equivalent to 60mm on full frame which isn’t a bad size for portraits top side (usually 50-85mm is used). The WML-1 wet lens gives a 150 degree FOV which seems plenty wide. Just wondering what the disadvantage is on a prime versus zoom - when you have so much other complexity while diving already and can zoom with your fins in many situations. I’m a newbie shooting underwater but quite experienced in air.

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Generally shooting macro and wide on the same dive is problematic as it is not a matter of the lens only but mindset and lighting

Underwater there are more issues of subject separation so generally for macro people shoot 100 mm even on cropped sensor, 60mm lens are not as popular as on land as consequence in MFT terms the most common macro lens is the Olympus 60mm this is a bit long in certain situations but a zoom lens like the 14-42 can cover many situations with wet lenses

So if you really wanted to cover all scenarios 14-42 + WWL-1 + some wet diopters on a bayonet mount would cover pretty much any focal range from super macro to moderate fisheye

This is the set up I use for video obviously for still images nothing beats dedicated ports but this is expensive at the beginning

There are many articles on rigs lenses etc etc on my blog http://interceptor121.com I shoot a GH5 myself

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6 hours ago, Angusparker said:

 

The Pana30/MWL-1 seems like a more manageable system underwater for wide and macro/portraits. Wondering if the Pana30 can be used with CMC1 for better macro performance. Anyone have experience with both set ups trying to do wide and macro on the same dive? Thanks for your help.

 

I have used the PANA 30mm Macro lens which is at least as good as the OLY 60mm which I also have and used extensively.  With the CMC1 the 30mm is a bit limited since distance from the diopter becomes a few cm.  However I do prefer the 30mm as it is a bit more versatile for focusing and slightly more compact.   

I did think of the possibility of adding the MWL-1.  I would use it mainly on and just detach using a flip addition when a small interesting critter would show up.   

Generally if I am in wide angle mode I would generally focus on non macro subjects but lately I have been happy doing some CFWA with the 8mm FE lens which is exceptional (compact and great detail/contrast ina 3.5mm dome).    So The PANA 30mm and MWL-1 would be a nice setup.

However I would consider the 30mm/MWL-1 if the WA quality is similar to the 3.5" and 8mm setup I have now.  I would lose the compactness of the 8mm but would add the flexibility of doing real macro on the same dive. Also I tend to do often defishing of the pictures with the 8mm lens and I would think it would not be as needed with the 30mm/MWL option.

Cost of the MWL is high and and I have seen no review reports on the M43 camp especially in comparison to an 8mm lens like mine so I am saving money for elsewhere for now.

Andrea

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Yeah, there are really very few reports of the MWL in use. It sounds cool in theory, but it is too expensive to just try it out.

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https://www.nauticam.com/blogs/news/mwl-1-and-nikon-z-7-in-triton-bay

interesting link with the Nikon Z7.   However it is not convincing enough for the price and weight.  I would pack a TG6 in my BC pocket for casual macro and keep shooting with the 8mm FE setup for extreme wide angle :)

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Generally shooting macro and wide on the same dive is problematic as it is not a matter of the lens only but mindset and lighting
Underwater there are more issues of subject separation so generally for macro people shoot 100 mm even on cropped sensor, 60mm lens are not as popular as on land as consequence in MFT terms the most common macro lens is the Olympus 60mm this is a bit long in certain situations but a zoom lens like the 14-42 can cover many situations with wet lenses
So if you really wanted to cover all scenarios 14-42 + WWL-1 + some wet diopters on a bayonet mount would cover pretty much any focal range from super macro to moderate fisheye
This is the set up I use for video obviously for still images nothing beats dedicated ports but this is expensive at the beginning
There are many articles on rigs lenses etc etc on my blog http://interceptor121.com I shoot a GH5 myself


Thank you for the info. I’m going to start out with my Pana12-35 (which I already own) in a plastic dome. But down the road I expect to upgrade. Just wondering what the best route is. The WWL-1 seems like a good route. Perhaps more info on the MWL-1 will be available at some point. No one seems to have experience with the GH5.


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https://www.nauticam.com/blogs/news/mwl-1-and-nikon-z-7-in-triton-bay
interesting link with the Nikon Z7.   However it is not convincing enough for the price and weight.  I would pack a TG6 in my BC pocket for casual macro and keep shooting with the 8mm FE setup for extreme wide angle


Good idea. I have the Oly 8mm already but am starting with the Pana12-35 and plastic dome for now. Wonder what you would do if you had to choose between those two lenses?

Having a TG6 in my BC sounds like a great option. Thanks for the idea.

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I have used the PANA 30mm Macro lens which is at least as good as the OLY 60mm which I also have and used extensively.  With the CMC1 the 30mm is a bit limited since distance from the diopter becomes a few cm.  However I do prefer the 30mm as it is a bit more versatile for focusing and slightly more compact.   
I did think of the possibility of adding the MWL-1.  I would use it mainly on and just detach using a flip addition when a small interesting critter would show up.   
Generally if I am in wide angle mode I would generally focus on non macro subjects but lately I have been happy doing some CFWA with the 8mm FE lens which is exceptional (compact and great detail/contrast ina 3.5mm dome).    So The PANA 30mm and MWL-1 would be a nice setup.
However I would consider the 30mm/MWL-1 if the WA quality is similar to the 3.5" and 8mm setup I have now.  I would lose the compactness of the 8mm but would add the flexibility of doing real macro on the same dive. Also I tend to do often defishing of the pictures with the 8mm lens and I would think it would not be as needed with the 30mm/MWL option.
Cost of the MWL is high and and I have seen no review reports on the M43 camp especially in comparison to an 8mm lens like mine so I am saving money for elsewhere for now.
Andrea


Which 8mm lens are you using? I have the Oly 8mm 1.8 already for land photography, but I suspect you are talking about the f3.5 lens which is quite a bit smaller.

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46 minutes ago, Angusparker said:

 


Which 8mm lens are you using? I have the Oly 8mm 1.8 already for land photography, but I suspect you are talking about the f3.5 lens which is quite a bit smaller.

 

I have the Pana f3.5 one.  The 8mm from Oly maybe a bit nicer as it goes down to f1.8 and so very interesting for wreck shots and othe no flash pics!  a bit bigger also but still very compact!

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53 minutes ago, Angusparker said:

 


Good idea. I have the Oly 8mm already but am starting with the Pana12-35 and plastic dome for now. Wonder what you would do if you had to choose between those two lenses?

Having a TG6 in my BC sounds like a great option. Thanks for the idea.

 

It depends what you shoot at.  I LOVE the 8mm lens ....super crisp.  But you need to get very close to your subject.   Not so good for fish schools for example. 

Here in the Mediterranean sea I get little use of the 12-40mm (or 12-35mm) focal range but other tropical seas I do like that focal range and will use it a lot.  However there is not a best lens for what I want in that range that is compact and has good quality in a dome.  Possibly a 12-40mm Oly or 12-60mm Pana in a 6 or 7 " dome.  However the quality of the edges is not as good as the 8mm Fisheye and the domes are bigger than what I am using now (an Oly 12-50mm set at F8.0 in a 4" semidome with a CMC1 flip on top. The 12-50mm lacks some contrast but at f8.0 is ok.  12mm is a also a bit limiting underwater).

I would LOVE a very good 10-50mm with reversed zooming (shortest focal at longest size) and a compact semidome to attach the CMC (which does not exist  :( ) or ...another option ....I have looked at is a 14-42MII Pana lens and a wwl-1 (INTERCEPTOR did some interesting tests with it).

Andrea

 

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It depends what you shoot at.  I LOVE the 8mm lens ....super crisp.  But you need to get very close to your subject.   Not so good for fish schools for example. 
Here in the Mediterranean sea I get little use of the 12-40mm (or 12-35mm) focal range but other tropical seas I do like that focal range and will use it a lot.  However there is not a best lens for what I want in that range that is compact and has good quality in a dome.  Possibly a 12-40mm Oly or 12-60mm Pana in a 6 or 7 " dome.  However the quality of the edges is not as good as the 8mm Fisheye and the domes are bigger than what I am using now (an Oly 12-50mm set at F8.0 in a 4" semidome with a CMC1 flip on top. The 12-50mm lacks some contrast but at f8.0 is ok.  12mm is a also a bit limiting underwater).
I would LOVE a very good 10-50mm with reversed zooming (shortest focal at longest size) and a compact semidome to attach the CMC (which does not exist   ) or ...another option ....I have looked at is a 14-42MII Pana lens and a wwl-1 (INTERCEPTOR did some interesting tests with it).
Andrea
 


I’m a warm water tropical diver. So it sounds like the Pana12-35 with strobes is a good starting point. It vignettes pretty badly at 12mm and I imagine the dome will only make things worse but otherwise it should do the trick as an all rounder. My son, my diving buddy, can bring along a simple TG6 setup for fish portraits and macro using a Sola video light. That will keep it simple, he’s only 13 and maintaining neutral buoyancy is a skill he is still working on.

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I shoot the 30mm lens a lot around in Sydney - there are often issue with particulates in the water - it's a 1:1 lens but I find in practice that is just too close and I'm effectively limited to about half life size.  1:1 is achieved at about 3cm in front of the lens or about 2cm in front of the port  (ignoring the magnification from the flat port).  Half life size is 6cm working distance so more manageable.  I switched back to the 60mm macro when shooting in Lembeh strait. 

I could see using the MWL on reef dives shooting reefscapes and switching to the 30mm for nudis and other small creatures - at least on Indo-pacific reefs where the nudis are really big.

I have the 12-40mm Olympus lens. it's very nice lens no vignetting at 12mm and focuses very close and I use it in lower vis for fish portraits and the like around Sydney mostly - I use it in a 170mm Zen dome.  I took it to Indonesia, but did only one dive with it.  I was using the 8mm panasonic fisheye mostly, though some of the reefs I would have liked to come back and dive with a longer focal length to shoot fish portraits - anemone fish etc which is where the 12-40 tends to shine.    The 12-40 focuses much closer achieving 0.3x magnification compared to 0.17x on the Pany 12-35 thats a 105mm object filling the frame on the 12-35 and 60mm filling the frame on the 12-40.  This increases the versatility of the Olympus lens.

The dome should not impact the vignetting if you have the right extension - which dome/housing are you using?

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I shoot the 30mm lens a lot around in Sydney - there are often issue with particulates in the water - it's a 1:1 lens but I find in practice that is just too close and I'm effectively limited to about half life size.  1:1 is achieved at about 3cm in front of the lens or about 2cm in front of the port  (ignoring the magnification from the flat port).  Half life size is 6cm working distance so more manageable.  I switched back to the 60mm macro when shooting in Lembeh strait. 

I could see using the MWL on reef dives shooting reefscapes and switching to the 30mm for nudis and other small creatures - at least on Indo-pacific reefs where the nudis are really big.

I have the 12-40mm Olympus lens. it's very nice lens no vignetting at 12mm and focuses very close and I use it in lower vis for fish portraits and the like around Sydney mostly - I use it in a 170mm Zen dome.  I took it to Indonesia, but did only one dive with it.  I was using the 8mm panasonic fisheye mostly, though some of the reefs I would have liked to come back and dive with a longer focal length to shoot fish portraits - anemone fish etc which is where the 12-40 tends to shine.    The 12-40 focuses much closer achieving 0.3x magnification compared to 0.17x on the Pany 12-35 thats a 105mm object filling the frame on the 12-35 and 60mm filling the frame on the 12-40.  This increases the versatility of the Olympus lens.

The dome should not impact the vignetting if you have the right extension - which dome/housing are you using?

 

I’m using the na-36133 Nauticam N85 6 inch' Wide Angle Dome Port. It’s the standard plastic dome without manual focus knob. Housing is the standard Nauticam NA-GH5SV.

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This is the feedback I got from Backscatter on the MWL-1 with a 30 on m43:

“If you wanted to use the 30mm macro with the MWL-1, I’d recommend using the CMC-2. Otherwise, the minimum focus distance is too close with the CMC-1. You’d basically have to be touching the subject to achieve focus. This is a pretty cool setup, but a little limited. The MWL-1 doesn’t provide the best image quality unless you shoot at really small apertures.”

So not much of an endorsement for the combination. Seems like the Pana14-42 with WWL-1 and SCS make a better if larger and more expensive combo.

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This is the feedback I got from Backscatter on the MWL-1 with a 30 on m43:

“If you wanted to use the 30mm macro with the MWL-1, I’d recommend using the CMC-2. Otherwise, the minimum focus distance is too close with the CMC-1. You’d basically have to be touching the subject to achieve focus. This is a pretty cool setup, but a little limited. The MWL-1 doesn’t provide the best image quality unless you shoot at really small apertures.”

So not much of an endorsement for the combination. Seems like the Pana14-42 with WWL-1 and SCS make a better if larger and more expensive combo.

the 30mm has already a closer working distance than the CMC1 and CMC2 and any money spent would be a waste
My macro set up for video has the 14-42 the CMC-2 and subsee +5 that can be stacked



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the 30mm has already a closer working distance than the CMC1 and CMC2 and any money spent would be a waste
My macro set up for video has the 14-42 the CMC-2 and subsee +5 that can be stacked



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Sounds like the 14-42 with WWL and CMC is the way to go for both WA and Macro on a m43 camera. For now I think I’m going to have my dive buddy carry and use a TG6 for Macro and use my GH5 for everything else. But at some point I’ll probably make the switch. By then we may have more options available.

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If this thread is still ongoing, more primarily for macro stills... the 60mm and cmc2 a good choice, I know the cmc1 I'll have to be really close and there's a learning curve... I also have the pz14-42 with wwl1... the cmc2 I can use with either setup? I'm just wondering though then if I'd have to change the mounting system for the diff lens... example 60mm port I would screw in, and for my 14-42... would it also snap into my bayonet mount?  Also is anyone using subsee lenses? I'm trying to get 1 macro for both setups  and I'm   beginner. Thank you 

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60mm and cmc-2 not a good choice the benefit is near zero

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