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Sea & Sea Internal Correction Lens + Nikkor 10-24 f/3.5-4.5G DX ED

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Has anyone used the Sea & Sea Internal Correction Lens in combination with the DX Nikkor 10-24 on a large dome?

I wonder if it will add any benefit to using a 230mm dome. And if it does, how it is at something as low as F5?

 

Kind regards,

Joss

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The Sea & Sea Internal Correction Lens is a unique optical tool designed to correct image abberration and distortion caused on wide angle lenses shooting behind a dome port. This lens attaches directly to the lens on your camera and is designed for Full Frame cameras behind large dome ports.

When shooting wide angle underwater it is common practice to stop down the aperture to F8 or higher in order to product the best overall photo with sharp corners. It is commonly known that larger (smaller number) aperture causes distortion and blurring at the edges / corners of an underwater photo due to refraction differences in water vs air. This lens has been carefully designed to correct that difference and improve blurring and distortion. Curvature & distortion are improved by approximately 2 F-Stop values when using the Internal Correction Lens.

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Hey Joss

A good description by bill1946.

It's worth doing a search on WP for the S&S lens Correction Lens. The subject has come up a few times and, from the posts I've read, the folks that use it rate it highly for FF WA use.

 

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20 hours ago, TimG said:

Hey Joss

A good description by bill1946.

It's worth doing a search on WP for the S&S lens Correction Lens. The subject has come up a few times and, from the posts I've read, the folks that use it rate it highly for FF WA use.

 

Thanks Tim, yeah I did search on WP but didn’t find anything on the 10-24 or any other DX lens. Maybe it is only useful with a full frame camera / lens.

I think some guys around WP have D500 and D850 cameras and was hoping to hear from them.

 

Kind regards,

Joss

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Yeah, Joss, you could be right - I think it was to use on FF. It's not needed so much on DX.

I've not used the 10-24 but I have used the Tokina 10-17 and that didn't need anything - although, of course, its FE rather than rectilinear. I used the Nikkor 12-24 way back with the Nikon D300 and that was fine without anything too.

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The issue being addressed is related to the field of view and how much closer the dome's virtual image is to the sensor plane than the centre.   The field of view of your lens is the same as a 16mm lens on full frame and it it is dealing with the same size and shape as that lens virtual image on any given dome.  The problem in the corners is due to not having enough depth of field to get the corners sharp.   DX will be better with this as the magnification to achieve a given field of view is less so the depth of field is better by 1.5 stops compared to full frame.   All assuming the lens is positioned properly in the dome and really only talking about the shortest focal length.

A rule of thumb for a rectilinear 16mm lens is  f16 for full frame f11-13 for DX and probably f8 for m43 to get the corners looking acceptable.  The S&S lens is a field flattener it brings the corners into focus and can reportedly do two stops better than a bare lens so for DX it should improve the image so you can use f5.6-6.3 if f11-13 is your limit currently.  

Whether you can or not depends - if you already use a 230mm dome on DX the corners may be really quite good already and you could do better still.  Some lenses may not be so good in the corners on land and adding the native lens abberations to the depth of field issue means the corners can't improve as much.  Some lenses will also have some field curvature natively - on land this is covered up by the depth of field but your starting point is not so good and adding on the issue with the virtual image means the problem is worse on that lens.  You see many wide lenses that need to be stopped down 2 stops or so to be at their best in the corners.  

A good starting point would be to establish the aperture limit that you are happy with on your current setup. 

 

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The Sea&Sea correction lens are lens and dome port specific.

They actually correct the curvature in the virtual image with specific dome ports. Of course, Sea&Sea have designed them to work with their ports. The only way to find out how they work with other domes is to experiment! 

In addition, the problem of soft corners at big apertures is particularly relevant with full frame cameras and their inherently shallow depth of field. 

This may be why there is a dearth of information about using it on DX lenses. 

However, I can report that the performance of the D500, 10-24mm and a 230mm dome is very good without the correction lens. I have certainly not felt the need for it down to f/8 or so. 

I think if you want to go much below this, the option really becomes either converted Nikonos or WACP!

Adam

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I have the lens, but I've only used it with the Nikon 16-35vr behind a 230mm dome and a 90mm extension.

Without the lens, the corners were never good, even at F16.  I pretty much always cropped them away.

With the S&S lens, the difference is astounding.  F5.6 is perfectly usable without cropping.

If the optical characteristics of the 10-24dx are the same (pretty big if), then perhaps the S&S lens will help.    Wonder if someone like Lensrentals rents them?

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Thank you for your comments. Not sure about pulling the trigger on it. At least not just yet

The credit card is still recovering of the purchase of 2 new strobes...

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_flattener_lens

The corrector lens is only based on the dome in this case the sea and sea 240mm the different adapter are just because the lens have different threads and the corrector has nothing to do with the lens itself 

So if you ascertain what is the radius of curvature of the sea and sea dome and the thickness of the glass used and use it on another dome with identical characteristics the performance would be the same or to be clear this is not sea and sea or lens specific

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I've never needed a correction lens on my DX Nikkor 10-24mm. Mine produces high quality images without a correction lens. I'd recommend spending your money on something else.

-Tinman

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I've never needed a correction lens on my DX Nikkor 10-24mm. Mine produces high quality images without a correction lens. I'd recommend spending your money on something else.
-Tinman

What dome do you use?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I use an 8" dome and Precision 5" Dome with my DX Nikkor 10-24mm. The DX 10-24mm was the lens I used for most of the underwater photographs that are in my recently published book, Dancing with Sea Lions. There were no issues with the resolution of images captured for the book with this lens. Over the past year, I've started using a DX Nikkor 16-85mm more than the DX 10-24mm, but this is a reach issue rather than issues with image resolution.

I've got a couple of 'student' camera housings for Nikon D300 cameras. One has an 8" dome and the other has a larger dome. Neither has presented major issues with distortion when using  DX 10-24mm lenses.

You can do what you want, but I think using a 230mm dome with a DX 10-24mm lens is probably over doing it a bit.

When I house my D850 later this year, I'll use a Sea & Sea Correction Lens. Everything I've read indicates that the lens is really designed for full frame cameras like Nikon's FX series.

-Tinman

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Thank you Tinman this confirms what I thought. For MFT 2x crop factor a radius of 11 cm is sufficient and this is what the 8" has and I think sufficient for DX too. 5" I would not really go there

No comment on full frame as that is not really my cup of tea

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23 minutes ago, Tinman said:

You can do what you want, but I think using a 230mm dome with a DX 10-24mm lens is probably over doing it a bit.

Thank you for your comments. I do appreciate them

I understand that a 230mm dome on a DX body might seem a bit weird, but I already own one. And I like to use it while free diving.

I want to take a reef shot with dolphins early in the morning with  low light. I want to limit the speed to no lower than 160, and ISO not higher than 1000. I have done some testing and it looks like f5 might works well in terms of exposure.

Regards,

Joss

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4 minutes ago, Joss said:

Thank you for your comments. I do appreciate them

I understand that a 230mm dome on a DX body might seem a bit weird, but I already own one. And I like to use it while free diving.

I want to take a reef shot with dolphins early in the morning with  low light. I want to limit the speed to no lower than 160, and ISO not higher than 1000. I have done some testing and it looks like f5 might works well in terms of exposure.

Regards,

Joss

Unless is very dark at the surface ISO is around 200 400 max with those aperture and speed. Would rack up speed to 1/250

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230mm is absolutely the right sized dome with the 10-24mm. Bear in mind it is a rectilinear lens, so corner sharpness is a significant issue with anything smaller...

The issue is not resolution with a smaller dome!

I would agree that 160s is quite slow for dolphins. Your D500 will cope with higher ISO, and you can do things to deal with noise in post. Better a bit of noise than a blurry image...

 

 

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3 hours ago, adamhanlon said:

230mm is absolutely the right sized dome with the 10-24mm. Bear in mind it is a rectilinear lens, so corner sharpness is a significant issue with anything smaller...

The issue is not resolution with a smaller dome!

I would agree that 160s is quite slow for dolphins. Your D500 will cope with higher ISO, and you can do things to deal with noise in post. Better a bit of noise than a blurry image...

 

 

My point was that sometimes manufacturer specifications are lacking

I am sure that not many people know that the 180mm glass dome and the 8.5" dome have the same curvature radius os 11 cm so although the 180mm is only 7" diameter for a 16-35 lens the sharpness is the same.

The 230mm dome is 12 cm radius which is only 1cm wider than the 180mm so if you have a 16mm equivalent lens on cropped sensor the difference is minimal however if you have a wider lens the smaller dome will vignette you will need to push the lens in and this will create more issue than corner sharpness alone

I have had long discussions with Nauticam to get the real specs of their domes and I am pretty confident I know exactly what is needed for what and this is not always related to the nominal size of the port

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FYI... for those not familiar with Precision domes. My 5" Precision is specifically designed for use with the Nikkor 10-24mm; this particular dome will not work with any other lens than my Nikkor 10-24mm.

I've used the 5" Precision dome/ Nikkor 10-24mm combo for early morning spinner dolphins off the coast of Hawaii (the Big Island) in blue water. The combo produced great images. 

-Tinman

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1 hour ago, Tinman said:

FYI... for those not familiar with Precision domes. My 5" Precision is specifically designed for use with the Nikkor 10-24mm; this particular dome will not work with any other lens than my Nikkor 10-24mm.

I've used the 5" Precision dome/ Nikkor 10-24mm combo for early morning spinner dolphins off the coast of Hawaii (the Big Island) in blue water. The combo produced great images. 

-Tinman

I think in blue water almost any dome works well because the water background does not show field of curvature issues.

The field of curvature problem decreases with the radius of curvature, so as long as the hemisphere is large enough to contain the lens field of view, larger dome always performs better than smaller domes. This is more noticeable on reef and especially wreck interior scenes than it is with blue water

The op has a 230mm dome with a 12cm radius this is the best optic for full frame on Nauticam right now and with DX will be definitely adequate even at f/5.6 in bluewater

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At the risk of beating a dead horse, a dome that's specifically designed for a specific lens tends to work well with that lens. The combo of my Precision dome and Nikkor 10-24mm works well regardless of where I'm capturing images. It works nicely in blue water as well as reef environments.

My larger domes work well with the Nikkor 10-24mm too.

-Tinman

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Sorry but marketing labels do not defeat physics a larger dome is better than a smaller one once they are correctly positioned or we would all be shooting tiny rigs


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