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DanielD

Sea&Sea YS-D2 TTL Problem with new J Version

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It certainly seems like it is related to camera settings - probably unlikely to be an issue with both of the strobes.  It does seem strange that the old flash worked. 

One workaround might be to use the old strobe as your master flash and run a cable from the the master to one of your new strobes as shown on page e-22 of manual?  The new strobe in TTL should mimic the pre-flash and main flash from your old strobe.

Googling around there a few posts on issues with D750 pre-flash such as difficulties in turning off red-eye mode.  The manual says the camera emits multiple pre-flashes in TTL mode which the strobe may be having difficulty with.  After a TTL test does the strobe come back with a ready light very quickly or not?

Which TTL mode are you using?  It appears you can activate D-TTL (as opposed to i-TTL) by switching to spot metering which is a less complicated system .

 

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4 minutes ago, ChrisRoss said:

One workaround might be to use the old strobe as your master flash and run a cable from the the master to one of your new strobes as shown on page e-22 of manual?

Unfortunately I sold the old strobe to finance the two new ones :rolleyes:. Is did test the new ones before.. but not against a mirror.. just tested if they fire :blush:. Not the best decision I ever made I suppose.

9 minutes ago, ChrisRoss said:

After a TTL test does the strobe come back with a ready light very quickly or not? 

Yes it comes back pretty quickly. Shows the green light and about a second later its ready again. I do use pretty good batteries though. However the red eye mode can be turned on and off pretty easily as far as I can see it.

11 minutes ago, ChrisRoss said:

Which TTL mode are you using?  It appears you can activate D-TTL (as opposed to i-TTL) by switching to spot metering which is a less complicated system . 

I usually use the matrix metering. I did however try all the other metering modes (Matrix, Center, Spot and Light). No difference in strobe behavior though.

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One last thing to try -  did you try using Slave TTL mode (mention on page E-25 of manual)?  I noticed that on cameras listed as DS-TTL-II mode impossible they list Slave TTL as possible.  I really can't think of other reasons they won't work.

 

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26 minutes ago, ChrisRoss said:

One last thing to try -  did you try using Slave TTL mode (mention on page E-25 of manual)?  I noticed that on cameras listed as DS-TTL-II mode impossible they list Slave TTL as possible.  I really can't think of other reasons they won't work.

I did try this shortly, but not try out all the possible cases (camera settings etc.) as with the normal TTL mode. I'll try again and more extensive when I come home this evening.

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Do you have a strobe for overwater use? If so, you can test optical ttl also with a "normal" strobe and try to figure out if the problem might be camera setting or the strobe.

Maybe you can inspect the housing that the "window" for the optical cable is clean. I don't think that that will be the problem, but just to be sure.

Also it could be possible you have to use other optical cables. I think I remember some statements that the new version of the D2 has a different sensor, so the optical cables that worked with the old version might not work with the new one.

I have the old version of the Sea&Sea YS D2, so you could test again if the old version would still shoot in ttl-mode, just to make shure nothing else has changed (camera settings), but I live in the south of Germany.

Also, it seems strange, but the Nikon D750 is not listed in the compatibility chart for the D2:

http://www.seaandsea.jp/file_master/misc/files/YS%20Strobe%20Slave%20function%20compatibility%20chart%20%2020191028%281%29.pdf

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3 minutes ago, ChrisH80 said:

Do you have a strobe for overwater use? If so, you can test optical ttl also with a "normal" strobe and try to figure out if the problem might be camera setting or the strobe.

Unfortunately not. I don't like strobe photography really. But alas.. under water we hardly have a chance do we?

6 minutes ago, ChrisH80 said:

Maybe you can inspect the housing that the "window" for the optical cable is clean. I don't think that that will be the problem, but just to be sure.

In all my last tests the camera was out of the housing and I held the cable directly against the pop-up strobe of the camera. Just to be sure ;).

7 minutes ago, ChrisH80 said:

Also it could be possible you have to use other optical cables. I think I remember some statements that the new version of the D2 has a different sensor, so the optical cables that worked with the old version might not work with the new one.

I've also tried this holding the strobes fiber port directly against the cameras strobe. The effect is the same, so I guess I can pretty much rule out a cable problem.

8 minutes ago, ChrisH80 said:

I have the old version of the Sea&Sea YS D2, so you could test again if the old version would still shoot in ttl-mode, just to make shure nothing else has changed (camera settings), but I live in the south of Germany. 

I do every now and then (about every 1 1/2 month) drive down to Saarland to visit my parents. But that ist more west of germany then really south germany.

9 minutes ago, ChrisH80 said:

Also, it seems strange, but the Nikon D750 is not listed in the compatibility chart for the D2:

I did notice that too. But considering that the old flash was working and that the D750 is quite a popular model, it would be very strange if the new version of the strobe did not support it. I did also write an E-Mail to the neatherlands support team of Sea&Sea (they seem to be responsible for europe) describing my problems, but am still waiting for a reply.

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2 minutes ago, DanielD said:

I do every now and then (about every 1 1/2 month) drive down to Saarland to visit my parents. But that ist more west of germany then really south germany.

I live there :lol: Lets say its south-west ;)

I have also Retra strobes, so it would be possible to test if they work with the D750 in ttl.

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21 minutes ago, ChrisH80 said:

I live there :lol: Lets say its south-west ;)

I have also Retra strobes, so it would be possible to test if they work with the D750 in ttl.

That would be really cool. My parents live pretty much on the northward border of RLP about 30km from Trier. But when I go there, I usually do so by car, so it wouldn't be much of a problem to drive to wherever you live. So if I don't find a solution for this till the next time I'll come down, I'll most definately contact you ^_^.

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10 hours ago, ChrisRoss said:

One last thing to try -  did you try using Slave TTL mode (mention on page E-25 of manual)?  I noticed that on cameras listed as DS-TTL-II mode impossible they list Slave TTL as possible.  I really can't think of other reasons they won't work.

So I tried this and the strobe is behaving the exact same way as in normal TTL mode :(.

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Posted (edited)

This gets more weird by the minute. I just tested the strobes with a camera of a friend (a canon) and it shows the exact same behavior with both strobes :blink:. That would point to broken strobes I guess.. but BOTH at the same time? Seems highly unlikely to me.

Edited by DanielD

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Have you tried sea and sea or nauticam cables?

Sent from my SM-A505FN using Tapatalk

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2 hours ago, Interceptor121 said:

Have you tried sea and sea or nauticam cables?

I have 3 cables, but they are all INON multicore cables. I also tried it without cable (holding the strobe against the internal flash of the camera). All those tests produced the same result.

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Sea and Sea say you need 613 multi core to make it work so you don't have yet a case to complain with them

Get one of their own cables and try

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1 hour ago, Interceptor121 said:

Sea and Sea say you need 613 multi core to make it work so you don't have yet a case to complain with them 

Get one of their own cables and try 

Considering that the strobe also doesn't work when I put the port directly to the flash, this doesn't make any sense whatsoever. The cable that has gain instead of loss has yet to be invented. And I'm certainly not going to buy a 90€ cable just to prove what I already know.

So far Sea&Sea has yet to respond to my mail. If they don't I'm just going to sell the strobes again and buy another model. It's sad relly because I was quite happy with the old version.

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The point is that you cannot prove that your old system worked as you no longer have it and you are not following their requirements so you are on your own. You have spent now over a week on this would it not be better to get a cable so at least you can ask for support?

 

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, Interceptor121 said:

You have spent now over a week on this would it not be better to get a cable so at least you can ask for support?

As I said: Sea&Sea is not even responding to my E-Mail :angry:. ATM They don't even know what my setup is except that I use a YS-D2 and a Nikon D750. There isn't even an offical contact for europe. Only for US buyers and the europe website is completely in dutch :blink:. So I did write to some dutch contact address. So far nothing. Before I even consider buying such a pricy cable, I need some reaction from them. I'm certainly not giving this company any more money just to make them talk to me. If their customer support is so crappy, then I'm better of buying from another company anyways. There are plenty of strobes in the sea :lol:.

Since @ChrisH80 has the old version and is living close to my parents I guess before I toss it, I'll get in touch with him and test the old setup with my camera.

Edited by DanielD

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If it is indeed a problem with the strobes (as it seems) maybe the firmware change might solve it. 

Bill

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It is increasingly looking like it is something with the strobes - firmware issues seem most likely as having a common defect between two strobes seems unlikely.  Unfortunately firmware upgrades require factory service to install.

I know we discounted an LED trigger previously on the basis of the onboard strobe giving better light output - however if it is indeed an issue with strobe firmware with this body the trigger is programmed to only transmit to the strobe signals it can deal with - it may be worth posting a question on the strobes and lighting board about compatibility of triggers with the D750/YS-D2J combination, hopefully Pavel will respond with advice on that possibility.

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4 hours ago, ChrisRoss said:

It is increasingly looking like it is something with the strobes - firmware issues seem most likely as having a common defect between two strobes seems unlikely.  Unfortunately firmware upgrades require factory service to install.

I agree. Unfortunately Sea&Sea is not answering me on any of the channels that I've been writing to. I'll be trying the US support. I know I'm not supposed to, but its their fault if they don't react on other channels.

4 hours ago, ChrisRoss said:

I know we discounted an LED trigger previously on the basis of the onboard strobe giving better light output - however if it is indeed an issue with strobe firmware with this body the trigger is programmed to only transmit to the strobe signals it can deal with - it may be worth posting a question on the strobes and lighting board about compatibility of triggers with the D750/YS-D2J combination, hopefully Pavel will respond with advice on that possibility.

Was thinking about that too. A TTL Trigger might be able to act as a filter / converter if it is programmed accordingly. It would be REALLY interesting to know whether anyone else is using this combo of camera and strobe. After all, neither the strobe nor the camera are of a rare model really. Problems like that should have been noticed in testing or someone else should have this trouble. I'll ask on the Strobes and Lighting board as you suggested.

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Tonight I went to the pool with two D2J and my 14 years old fiber optic cables

I never use DS-TTL but I thought of trying it and it worked flawlessly! Definitely is not the cable I would think but the strobes

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Guess at one point I have to find another person with a YS-D2 to see whether any other strobe of that model works on my camera. It's all still very fuzzy :(.

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Water was a bit murky with suspended particles anyway it gives an idea!

PANA3561_DxO_100.jpg

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Yea one can clearly see the shadows of both strobes. Unfortunately there is still no reply from Sea&Sea. Maybe there europe office is closed down at the moment. I'll just have to wait and see then. My usual diving spot / base is currently closed anyway, so there is no testing in water and no diving until further notice for me :(.

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Hi Daniel,

I can comment on the European Sea&Sea representation in Netherlands: Approx. half a year ago I had (another) defective YS-D2 to repair and tried to contact them. No response at all. No matte rwhether there is a virus, they do not want to deal with customers service...

Instead I sent the strobe in to a UK repair workshop:

Aquaphot
40 D'Arcy Way
Tolleshunt D'Arcy
Essex
CM9 8UD
United Kingdom

Decent work and fast!

At a cost of 250 Euro for the repair, however, I am not sure I will invest again in a broken Sea&Sea strobe. Probably I will invest in another new Z330 instead...

 

Wolfgang

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On 3/19/2020 at 9:56 PM, Architeuthis said:

half a year ago I had (another) defective YS-D2 to repair and tried to contact them. No response at all. No matte rwhether there is a virus, they do not want to deal with customers service...

A company that has no working customer service (especially with such fragile hardware) soon does not need it anyway, because they'll have no customers anymore. Especially in such a small community as UW photography that is a damned stupid approach on saving money.

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