The impact of DSLR APSC Phase Out on Underwater Photography

[trimix125 73]

Hi,
actual i have a D750 and a D500, which is my favorite cam.
Last trip i used a Sony A6300 underwater first time.
D500 and Sony A6300 are more or less the same sensor, and age...
But the difference in low light autofocus is a lot...
The Sony is better in video, no question. But fast moving subjects, the D500 wins...
Dont know if you know Mark Smith, he takes great bird pics, and used Nikon D500 and D850, and then changed to Sony A9 and now the new A7 IV, but allways gets back to compare.
Its not so easy, specially if the use is a very small part of the cake, like under water pics...

I like the idea of a leight weighted cam, but the Z6 / 7 are the first evils from Nikon,
the Z50 is nice, but i think i will wait for the second edition before i think about changing....
And i have a lot of "old" lenses, some need a screw driven focus, so changing will need a good reason.

Regards,
Wolfgang

[Interceptor121 765]

I think a lot of people that shoot a D500 want an optical viewfinder
Better or worse than EVF those users will not want to go mirrorless and may go full frame DSLR instead of cropped mirrorless
Eventually DSLR will die and EVF will be a necessity but I believe die hard DSLR users will try to delay switching to the last possible opportunity


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Algwyn 12]

On 3/17/2020 at 6:07 PM, Interceptor121 said:

With Nikon no longer producing APSC DLSR

You may be mistaken on that point. 

While the D500 has indeed been rumored as not being replaced, this is not the case of the whole APSC DSLR.

The D7500 may still be replaced, hopefully in the D780 fashion.

 

[Interceptor121 765]

16 hours ago, Algwyn said:

You may be mistaken on that point. 

While the D500 has indeed been rumored as not being replaced, this is not the case of the whole APSC DSLR.

The D7500 may still be replaced, hopefully in the D780 fashion.

 

Lets see the D7600 lone APSC DSLR survivor was first scheduled for Q1 2019 so it is running one year late possibly a low priority or abandoned project considering Nikon has now the Z50 in the same market segment

[Algwyn 12]

Let's see...

It'll probably depend on the success of the D780 ... and we may get a D7800 instead of a D7600!

[Interceptor121 765]

18 minutes ago, Algwyn said:

Let's see...

It'll probably depend on the success of the D780 ... and we may get a D7800 instead of a D7600!

But D780 is full frame 24MP if that's path RIP APSC

[Seewolf 1]

I use the D500 in an Aquatica housing underwater and a Z7 on land. As much as I like the Z7, the IQ is stellar, I wouldn't like to use it underwater. Although in DX mode the IQ of the Z7 is indistinguishable from that of the D500, for me, the D500 is the nearly perfect UW camera. For action (Rhode Island Blue sharks, Guadalupe Great Whits etc.) I use the Nikon 8-15 with the new Kenko 1.4 TC and dome ports from 4 to 8''. With two Z330 strobes I set it to 4 frames/sec and the results are great, almost all pictures in focus. It never slows down, no matter how long I let it run. The Z7 is much slower with strobes. I tried all kinds of settings, but it is never getting close to the performance of the D500. I guess we will have to wait one or two Z generations to really get the same performance.

[TimG 62]

2 minutes ago, Seewolf said:

I use the D500 in an Aquatica housing underwater and a Z7 on land. As much as I like the Z7, the IQ is stellar, I wouldn't like to use it underwater. Although in DX mode the IQ of the Z7 is indistinguishable from that of the D500, for me, the D500 is the nearly perfect UW camera. For action (Rhode Island Blue sharks, Guadalupe Great Whits etc.) I use the Nikon 8-15 with the new Kenko 1.4 TC and dome ports from 4 to 8''. With two Z330 strobes I set it to 4 frames/sec and the results are great, almost all pictures in focus. It never slows down, no matter how long I let it run. The Z7 is much slower with strobes. I tried all kinds of settings, but it is never getting close to the performance of the D500. I guess we will have to wait one or two Z generations to really get the same performance.

Interesting. Do you use the Nikkor 8-15 with the TC 1.4 in the 4" dome?  Good results?

[String 17]

I actually bought a 90D and its a good little camera.  Not high end for sure but a big upgrade over my 70D (I just wish there was a nauticam housing....).

Maybe im different but i do above and below water photography and for ease of accessories, travel weight, spares and so on really want the same gear to use in both for some commonality.

On the surface at least, mirrorless AF still lags behind a dedicated sensor.  There's also the issue that most (all?) mount adaptors tend to drastically affect the AF speed and accuracy the more you get into longer focal lengths.  So for me at least, sport and wildlife wise where most of it is through L glass at longer lengths, mirrorless simply isnt going to be useful for me yet.

I like APS-C for the above (combined with the resolution of the 90D) for the reach it gives me.

Admittedly i haven't tried an A9 or A74 but i absolutely hate the EVF for tracking sport or wildlife.  The A72 was unusable completely, the A73 still feels laggy to me and isn't a pleasant usage experience.  Again i can see an upside to EVF but also downsides.  Underwater probably more pros than cons, surface not so much.

If i was doing underwater *only* they im fairly sure id go full frame mirrorless but as i need a setup to both, that isnt a useful option for me currently.  At least not yet.

My setup is a compromise, not absolutely perfect for underwater but good enough.  The other way around would significantly hamper my above-water ability.

 

[Interceptor121 765]

2 hours ago, String said:

I actually bought a 90D and its a good little camera.  Not high end for sure but a big upgrade over my 70D (I just wish there was a nauticam housing....).

 

The Canon 90D is a very interesting camera in fact am not sure if a housing will be developed it is a bit different to the 80D so not sure it will fit old housing.

DSRL will disappear is just a matter of time and OVF will no longer exist. How long will it take is unclear. As a video shooter having used OVF and EVF I prefer EVF as I can predict how the image will come out (if I do not use strobes) that together with all the exposure and focus aids makes checking your images in the LCD less of a necessity. I always thought there was no point looking what my could see and then realising the camera could not cope with it so I was never a fan of OVF and their little dots

The 90D has also an hybrid viewfinder or am I mistaken?

[Seewolf 1]

Tim, here is one with the 8-15 + TC and 4'' dome: f=11 and 1/250 sec. The center is quite sharp, the corners are OK to me. The 8'' is of course better in the corners.

[Seewolf 1]

Sorry, mixed it up. The last picture was with the Tokina. This one is with the Nikon 8-15 + TC, f =9, 1/250 sec, 18 mm.

[TimG 62]

6 hours ago, Seewolf said:

Sorry, mixed it up. The last picture was with the Tokina. This one is with the Nikon 8-15 + TC, f =9, 1/250 sec, 18 mm.

Many thanks. Those corners look pretty good. 

[Architeuthis 155]

8 hours ago, Seewolf said:

Sorry, mixed it up. The last picture was with the Tokina. This one is with the Nikon 8-15 + TC, f =9, 1/250 sec, 18 mm.

Thank you for showing a real life example...

Is this image cropped, or can one judge how good the corners are (they are very good)?

I am curious whether you dried the 2x teleconverter and what you think about using it (would be the equivalent for use of the 8-15mm fisheye on FF, compared to the 1.4x converter on DX and 1x adapter on MFT sensors)?

 

Wolfgang

[String 17]

On 4/10/2020 at 3:01 PM, Interceptor121 said:

The Canon 90D is a very interesting camera in fact am not sure if a housing will be developed it is a bit different to the 80D so not sure it will fit old housing.

DSRL will disappear is just a matter of time and OVF will no longer exist. How long will it take is unclear. As a video shooter having used OVF and EVF I prefer EVF as I can predict how the image will come out (if I do not use strobes) that together with all the exposure and focus aids makes checking your images in the LCD less of a necessity. I always thought there was no point looking what my could see and then realising the camera could not cope with it so I was never a fan of OVF and their little dots

The 90D has also an hybrid viewfinder or am I mistaken?

Its totally different from the 80D sadly (joystick etc).  I bought it in the hope that a housing would be made.  I know Ikelite and some have them but i dont want to go there.  I may have made an expensive gamble.

Ultimately my underwater setup currently is a dated 70D so no 4k video and other things so in bad need of an upgrade but as of yet there isnt really anything on the market i can use for underwater AND surface sensibly.

The 90D hybrid isnt really that - it superimposes a lot of data but the view itself is still optical.  You need liveview for video and other features.  Id *love* a camera i could take video by looking through the viewfinder which mirrorless does as holding a DSLR steady and having to look at the back LCD screen is difficult.

I still cant accept the lag in an EVF for sport/wildlife shooting on land.  As i said, i havent tried an A9 or A7m4 but the others i have tried still to me had distracting and noticeable latency.

[TimG 62]

55 minutes ago, String said:

 

I still cant accept the lag in an EVF for sport/wildlife shooting on land.  As i said, i havent tried an A9 or A7m4 but the others i have tried still to me had distracting and noticeable latency.

You see a lag in something like the Nikon Z6/Z7?

[String 17]

3 minutes ago, TimG said:

You see a lag in something like the Nikon Z6/Z7?

Ive never used those (or seen them in the wild in fact).  Experience the above-mentioned Sony models and the Eos R.

The AF issues with adapted lenses are another issue for me - combine that with EVF lag and above water sport and wildlife is tricky.

[TimG 62]

29 minutes ago, String said:

Ive never used those (or seen them in the wild in fact).  Experience the above-mentioned Sony models and the Eos R.

The AF issues with adapted lenses are another issue for me - combine that with EVF lag and above water sport and wildlife is tricky.

OK, I've been using a Z6 for about 18 months now and I can't see any lag nor with the adaptor to use the F-mount lenses. It's very good. But I still like my D500 for u/w use! I do find the OVF somehow crisper than the EVF.

[Interceptor121 765]

There is no lag on Panasonic EVF top range. There is a 120 fps setting but I don’t use it even foe birds


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[String 17]

Actually should clarify i mean for non uw use.  Adapted lenses generally all seem to suffer in terms of AF speed and accuracy the longer the focal length.

On all the ones ive tried (sony and canon systems) at 400m the AF performance is fairly dire compared to native without an adaptor.

I know its not an issue underwater but like i said, for me i ideally need one system to cover both.

[Interceptor121 765]

I use MFT 50-200mm with teleconverter 1.4x equivalent 560mm it focusses instantaneously
But for birds I use prediction as my reflex are not quick enough


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Seewolf 1]

10 hours ago, Architeuthis said:

Thank you for showing a real life example...

Is this image cropped, or can one judge how good the corners are (they are very good)?

I am curious whether you dried the 2x teleconverter and what you think about using it (would be the equivalent for use of the 8-15mm fisheye on FF, compared to the 1.4x converter on DX and 1x adapter on MFT sensors)?

 

Wolfgang

Hi Wolfgang,

the picture is not cropped, I just verified in Lightroom.

Here are some test shots in the pool. All with the D500, Aquatica housing, Aquatica 4'' mini dome, Nikon 8-15 fisheye + Kenko (new version) 1.4 TC, ISO=200, 1/160sec:

11mm, f=6.3; 11mm, f=10; 21mm, f=6.3, 21mm, f=6.3

At f=6.3 you see problems in the corners at 11mm and better at 21mm. At f=11 for me acceptable, especially at 21mm already what I call good. Overall, my impression is that this combo performs pretty well. For most trips I don't care to take the 8'' dome, although the corners are clearly better. But in blue water you don't see it anyway. My impression is that the 8+15 + TC performs better than the Tokina 10-17 without TC.

Cheers, Wolfram

[TimG 62]

Hey Wolfram

Thanks for posting those.

What EXR length are you using?

[Seewolf 1]

2 hours ago, TimG said:

Hey Wolfram

Thanks for posting those.

What EXR length are you using?

Its the Aquatica 18462 (39.5 mm) which fits very well, and the zoom gear custom made by Aquatica. They print it, its much lighter and works better than the old aluminum zoom gears.

[TimG 62]

7 hours ago, Seewolf said:

Its the Aquatica 18462 (39.5 mm) which fits very well, and the zoom gear custom made by Aquatica. They print it, its much lighter and works better than the old aluminum zoom gears.

Many thanks