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Putting this link up in case you might have missed this. It is very interesting to hear from a guy like Pawel.

 

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I really don't think we lack cameras to take good footage. The issue is how to use them most times

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2 hours ago, Interceptor121 said:

I really don't think we lack cameras to take good footage. The issue is how to use them most times

Totally agree with this.

But still, one HAS to Choose ONE of them. So which one? 

The E2 was of some interest to me but its Chinese and so is totally off the table to me now. Each person makes his own decision on such things, mine is no more Chinese products. Thankfully there are not that many Chinese products in the underwater cine market. So far.....

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Posted (edited)

To me, when someone like Pawel takes an interest in a product I think it makes good sense to sit up and take note. He is very clearly taken by some aspects of the FP. Colour accuracy and sensitivity being the big 2 in his eyes. 

So much so, he went and designed a housing for it (out of titanium no less). One has to see some merit in a camera to go that far with the enthusiasm for it. This is a guy who works with all the industry big guns yet he loves this little camera. 

I want to see some underwater footage first but on the surface of it (excuse the pun) colour accuracy with insane sensitivity coupled to a Nikonos lens......seems a killer combo. Can't help loving small either.

OK so it is only 4K 23.98....but do I really need 4K 60p? Is 4K 60p being overdone to the extent I am now looking for a different "look" Is it better to shoot 4K 60p regardless of how over done it is...thinking stabilizing effect here on the footage? I dont think anyone would argue at this point in time about shooting 1080p Vs 4K. If i had an expensive rig that cost me a bomb and only shot 1080p I would stick with that, but that's not my situation. I am looking to set up a completely new rig from scratch. I was very interested in the nauticam new underwater optic setups that fit onto the BMPCC 6K housing. But the Nikonos blows them all away I think.

I am always interested in other people's opinions......I may just learn something. But I would not go backwards with a GH5 for a new from scratch rig today. Thoughts......??

Edited by John Doe II

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The current outlook for travel is bleach so am not sure this is the time to make investments on fancy stuff but on stock items there are some good deal

I never buy the newest camera I want to see how it works extensively before I spend money on it, even than I find plenty of things that are unknown. During this lock down period I spent some time updating my knowledge on camera technology and I can confidently say cameras are good. It is important to consider a system end to end including how you will edit the footage

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Posted (edited)

Again, agree with your thoughts Interceptor.

I've only just graduated to a Nikon D800 so I am definitely one for using gear one generation back. I feel no need to have the latest and greatest at all. Having said that I do feel that 4K is now the baseline. I liked the idea of shooting 6K and mastering that footage in 4K.

Still, a better quality 4K is worlds better then so so 6K footage mastered down to 4K.

Truth be told the latest crop of cameras are all very good. How to pick one over the other is the thing these days. We are so spoiled for choice - only a good thing for us !

So it comes down to which camera has a housing for it. Then which optic system is available for said housing. Make a list of cameras from there.

I really wanted to go with the BMPCC 6K and Nauticam system with the new optic system for that housing. But the FP makes me take pause and wonder if I am going the right way or not?

I have not been able to find any underwater footage of the FP setup yet though, so still on the fence.

I like the insane sensitivity of the FP. Its colour accuracy cant be ignored either. But we do lose 4K 60p. I am not worried about frame rates above that.

The massive file sizes on the FP dont bother me at all. 12bit 4K RAW in DNG. I will accept the big files if that's what it takes to get that combo. The show stopper to me is the Nikonos on the front of that LITTLE housing. As you say, most of the cameras are very good today.

Its now back to optics being the differentiator. 

Its time for a new desktop PC anyway. I have 5K set aside for a new desktop PC build so editing is not an issue for me in terms of horse power to handle the footage.

Intersting times we live in.

Edited by John Doe II
Typo's

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Don’t get overexcited about 6K there is no benefit going from 6K to 4K through an editor. Only prints perform downsampling video editors don’t they just trash pixels
So unless you have 6K set to watch it or want some special effects there won’t be a benefit for extra pixels for 4K delivery
Also don’t get fooled by DR claims a sensor doesn’t deliver more then the analog to digital converter embedded in it. So there is no difference in performance between the Panasonic GH5s and the BMPCC4K only the workflow is different
DR is massively overrated in cameras look for a combination that has the right ergonomics and the best lenses for what you have to do.
There is no point getting a Super35 sensor and then using it at small apertures currently the WWL-1 zoom wet up on MFT is only matched by the WACP and those are dry ports
What is this sigma going to give you?


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Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, Interceptor121 said:


There is no point getting a Super35 sensor and then using it at small apertures currently the WWL-1 zoom wet up on MFT is only matched by the WACP and those are dry ports
What is this sigma going to give you?

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So thats the point then. What does the Sigma give you.........

1/Full frame 35

2/Accurate colour covering full Rec 2020 Gamut

3/Sensitivity. repeat.....sensitivity -The FP is noiseless up to 12800. This is major. 

4/Simple Interface - can only be good at 55 meters down while monitoring gauges esp if tech diving.

4/Nikonos with a Titanium ceramic coated mount. As good as it gets.

5/Small housing - whole subject on its own with factors I dont want to discuss publicly.

Downsides are frame rate at 4K. This is the one area that makes me think hard about going in this direction.

 

Something I am very interested in. Tethering the camera on a tripod at depth and monitoring and triggering record from the surface. I dont know if this is possible but it seems that if any camera can do it, it is the sigma given it is easily used as a web cam. This is interesting to me because I want to record a particular species of fish spawn. This fish is very elusive and is at depth. I have about 4 mins bottom time at 55 meters. What are my chances of sneaking up to this fish and getting the footage I want of them spawning in 4 mins?

I know one of the Canon DSLR's can do Tethering and trigger record from a laptop from the surface but I dont want a Canon DSLR. What options do I have on this? I dont know the FP can do it, but it seems likely.

Its kind of ironic isn't it.  I can afford to change my camera from year to year. But the housing cost and its parts/ports/optics etc are sooooooo expensive that I cant afford to change camera because I am chained to a housing....once I decide which one I sell a kidney for.

Then to put this whole thing into perspective. Look where we are today. Look at the quality of the footage at 4K...in 12 bit RAW no less and the ISO's we can use. Just 10 years ago we couldn't dream of this at today's prices.  So whichever way one goes its hardly the booby prize. As you rightly point out, the cameras are so good today that it comes down to how they are used. Skill of the operator is a bigger issue now then the gear. The only thing I would say is the optics can be a BIG thing to consider, but after that, yes I agree....its now the operator not the camera that holds things back....today. Yesteryear it was the camera that held us back.

I say again, we live in interesting times.

Edited by John Doe II
Typo's. I am a bad typist.

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No camera with a bayer sensor resolves more than 9-9.5 bits of colour.
The claims that this camera resolves rec2020 are probably just theory that will be disproved
You don’t shoot at 12800 underwater colors need artificial lights and with that you are back under 1600 which is the reason for the hobbyists full frame underwater video is not necessary


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So thats the point then. What does the Sigma give you.........
1/Full frame 35
2/Accurate colour covering full Rec 2020 Gamut
3/Sensitivity. repeat.....sensitivity -The FP is noiseless up to 12800. This is major. 
4/Simple Interface - can only be good at 55 meters down while monitoring gauges esp if tech diving.
4/Nikonos with a Titanium ceramic coated mount. As good as it gets.
5/Small housing - whole subject on its own with factors I dont want to discuss publicly.
Downsides are frame rate at 4K. This is the one area that makes me think hard about going in this direction.
 
Something I am very interested in. Tethering the camera on a tripod at depth and monitoring and triggering record from the surface. I dont know if this is possible but it seems that if any camera can do it, it is the sigma given it is easily used as a web cam. This is interesting to me because I want to record a particular species of fish spawn. This fish is very elusive and is at depth. I have about 4 mins bottom time at 55 meters. What are my chances of sneaking up to this fish and getting the footage I want of them spawning in 4 mins?
I know one of the Canon DSLR's can do Tethering and trigger record from a laptop from the surface but I dont want a Canon DSLR. What options do I have on this? I dont know the FP can do it, but it seems likely.
Its kind of ironic isn't it.  I can afford to change my camera from year to year. But the housing cost and its parts/ports/optics etc are sooooooo expensive that I cant afford to change camera because I am chained to a housing....once I decide which one I sell a kidney for.
Then to put this whole thing into perspective. Look where we are today. Look at the quality of the footage at 4K...in 12 bit RAW no less and the ISO's we can use. Just 10 years ago we couldn't dream of this at today's prices.  So whichever way one goes its hardly the booby prize. As you rightly point out, the cameras are so good today that it comes down to how they are used. Skill of the operator is a bigger issue now then the gear. The only thing I would say is the optics can be a BIG thing to consider, but after that, yes I agree....its now the operator not the camera that holds things back....today. Yesteryear it was the camera that held us back.
I say again, we live in interesting times.

John have done a bit of research for you
This camera has the same sensor that is in the Panasonic S1H
This sensor cannot read the full frame of the camera at more than 40 fps
With 4K super35 crop goes to higher frame rate but sigma doesn’t have this mode
I would think the S1H is a ready product now and is likely to be a better option especially in super35 mode
I don’t shoot high frame rates underwater but I would expect the option to be there
Also I would think ProRes RAW on the S1H is easier to manage than CinemaDNG
Probably you don’t even need the S1H just the S1 and an external record will be the same


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Another point rolling shutter on full frame consumer sensor is a real problem that’s why people buy red arri etc


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Posted (edited)

Full frame sensor (not the best option for shooting video underwater at the consumer or prosumer level), no IBIS, small size, small monitor, limited options in terms of button customization, battery life, limited lens, ports, housing options, ergonomics. 

Trade all these for what?  24K DNG raw and Rec 2020? (which you ll have to invest time and money to be able to fully exploit)

Not a good option IMHO or might be an option but for very specific things.

If you have money and time to spend wait for Canon R5 (if the specs come true), or go for a cinema camera (Canon, Panasonic) or the DX mk III.

 

My 2 dirhams

 

 

 

 

Edited by Lionfi2s
typo
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What is the exchange rate of your dirhams to the USD ? (so I know how much you are spending on your opinion)

All of the above are valid. Not suggesting we shoot at 12800. Point is at the ISO we do shoot at, its as clean as a whistle. Amazing how we take this for granted these days. Also, not every scene is lit. Really depends on what you are doing and what sort of project one is constructing. Niche for sure but if thats your thing were else are you finding this?

Rec 2020 while not a big issue today IS going to be in the future. Having RAW footage that conforms to this can only be a good thing. Agree that today most delivery would be in rec 709. Still the footage captured has a wider gamut then rec 709 if its ever needed. Who knows which way this may go as we move forward.

The only downside I can see to full frame is depth of field issues. Harder to manually focus at full frame then B4 for sure.

I am not sure what Pawel has done on the battery life side of things but willing to bet is been dealt with (larger external battery in the housing?) So thats not really an issue for most cameras in a housing.

The only lenses I want to use underwater are Nikonos. Pawels housing has this covered very well. I trust Pawels engineering (He did win an Academy Award for his engineering of a camera after all) on his version of a Nikonos mount to his housing.

Ergonomics....double edged sword here. The best housing for stability will be big. No question about it. Best housing to fly under the radar will be tiny. No doubt about it. This last point depends on where in the world you are operating. I dont want to go any further on that topic. We all have our own needs and this camera being tiny and its housing not much bigger is ideal for me....maybe for you not so much?? But being a tiny housing its definitely going to have its issues in terms of handling and technique to get a good result. No doubt about it. The world is not fair but thats the way it is. In MY particular scenario small gets me in there and shooting whereas a big housing only raises attention that I dont want (or can afford). How that all pans out and the issues that stem from small and difficult to use remain to be seen.

Trade all these for DNG RAW and rec 2020.....

An open standard digital negative is the gold standard. Compute needs are easily overcome today. Storage is getting cheaper all the time. I dont want my RAW capture footage in a proprietary format. I'll take the DNG thanks.

Now having said ALL of that, I am not by any means sold on this FP setup yet. I am not drinking the cool aid here. I need to see footage and hear from people who have used the system. I cant afford to be the guinea pig. But if it shapes as well as its potential says it can then we might have a winner here.

What other cameras are there right now or coming soon? The S1. BMPCC 4K/6K. R5. Is there anything else ? (will not even remotely consider anything Chinese now after what has been done to us by the CCP)

I'd be really interested to hear the details on why you like your chosen camera system.

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What is the exchange rate of your dirhams to the USD ? (so I know how much you are spending on your opinion)
All of the above are valid. Not suggesting we shoot at 12800. Point is at the ISO we do shoot at, its as clean as a whistle. Amazing how we take this for granted these days. Also, not every scene is lit. Really depends on what you are doing and what sort of project one is constructing. Niche for sure but if thats your thing were else are you finding this?
Rec 2020 while not a big issue today IS going to be in the future. Having RAW footage that conforms to this can only be a good thing. Agree that today most delivery would be in rec 709. Still the footage captured has a wider gamut then rec 709 if its ever needed. Who knows which way this may go as we move forward.
The only downside I can see to full frame is depth of field issues. Harder to manually focus at full frame then B4 for sure.
I am not sure what Pawel has done on the battery life side of things but willing to bet is been dealt with (larger external battery in the housing?) So thats not really an issue for most cameras in a housing.
The only lenses I want to use underwater are Nikonos. Pawels housing has this covered very well. I trust Pawels engineering (He did win an Academy Award for his engineering of a camera after all) on his version of a Nikonos mount to his housing.
Ergonomics....double edged sword here. The best housing for stability will be big. No question about it. Best housing to fly under the radar will be tiny. No doubt about it. This last point depends on where in the world you are operating. I dont want to go any further on that topic. We all have our own needs and this camera being tiny and its housing not much bigger is ideal for me....maybe for you not so much?? But being a tiny housing its definitely going to have its issues in terms of handling and technique to get a good result. No doubt about it. The world is not fair but thats the way it is. In MY particular scenario small gets me in there and shooting whereas a big housing only raises attention that I dont want (or can afford). How that all pans out and the issues that stem from small and difficult to use remain to be seen.
Trade all these for DNG RAW and rec 2020.....
An open standard digital negative is the gold standard. Compute needs are easily overcome today. Storage is getting cheaper all the time. I dont want my RAW capture footage in a proprietary format. I'll take the DNG thanks.
Now having said ALL of that, I am not by any means sold on this FP setup yet. I am not drinking the cool aid here. I need to see footage and hear from people who have used the system. I cant afford to be the guinea pig. But if it shapes as well as its potential says it can then we might have a winner here.
What other cameras are there right now or coming soon? The S1. BMPCC 4K/6K. R5. Is there anything else ? (will not even remotely consider anything Chinese now after what has been done to us by the CCP)
I'd be really interested to hear the details on why you like your chosen camera system.

John don’t know how I have to write it
This camera has the same sensor of Panasonic S1H/S1 that have ProRes RAW and are mainstream
CinemaDNG is an old concept is just that Sigma like Blackmagic don’t have a good DSP so they have to dump everything on disk
Ok for the clip but things like stabilisation autofocus and availability of parts are important and this camera housing offers nothing more than what is already out there


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On 5/16/2020 at 8:50 AM, John Doe II said:

Something I am very interested in. Tethering the camera on a tripod at depth and monitoring and triggering record from the surface. I dont know if this is possible but it seems that if any camera can do it, it is the sigma given it is easily used as a web cam. This is interesting to me because I want to record a particular species of fish spawn. This fish is very elusive and is at depth. I have about 4 mins bottom time at 55 meters. What are my chances of sneaking up to this fish and getting the footage I want of them spawning in 4 mins?

I know one of the Canon DSLR's can do Tethering and trigger record from a laptop from the surface but I dont want a Canon DSLR. What options do I have on this? I dont know the FP can do it, but it seems likely.

Its kind of ironic isn't it.  I can afford to change my camera from year to year. But the housing cost and its parts/ports/optics etc are sooooooo expensive that I cant afford to change camera because I am chained to a housing....once I decide which one I sell a kidney for.

 

John, no offense at all, but it's clear from what you write that you have little or no experience of underwater filming.

As @Interceptor121 and @Lionfi2sare trying to tell you, it's not all gold that glitters. The data on the paper doesn't necessarily reflect real advantages in the field. Besides, I stopped giving too much importance to VIP reviews on the web years ago. Many people have a strong incentive to push one product over another. Read: biased opinions.

Full frame is by no means the best format to shoot underwater. Even a RED (except the MONSTRO 8K) has a smaller sensor than the FF. On this forum you can find hundreds of posts explaining the pros and cons of having an FF camera. And no, photography is not video. In addition, all these hypothetical advantages will be put to the test by the operator's skills (read my signature).

Since you're talking about costs (and selling a kidney), things are pretty simple: we all know that selling used equipment means losing a lot of money anyway so:

#1 you're a professional. So you can spend a lot of money on the right tool for the job you just took. Surely with the revenue from your work you can easily make up the initial investment in a short/medium period of time.

#2 you are an amateur like many of us here (me first). Then it's important to stay mainstream. Because when you'll sell your used equipment, just having something very common/appealing can make up part of the investment. I have a nice collection of camera housing on the shelf.

It's clear that this camera is very niche. Only one manufacturer of niche underwater enclosures has claimed to make one. Do you think when you decide to sell it, it'll be easy?

That's why they pointed out to you that there is the Panasonic S1/S1H that has the same sensor and an electronics that has a history behind it. And yet, I'm convinced that it would be very difficult to sell a used SH1 housing.

Of course if you are a billionaire who has fallen in love with this camera, then the two options mentioned above do not apply.

Bye

On 5/15/2020 at 9:32 AM, Interceptor121 said:

Don’t get overexcited about 6K there is no benefit going from 6K to 4K through an editor. Only prints perform downsampling video editors don’t they just trash pixels
 

It's not true. My Edius have Lanczos 3 downsampling method among the other and difference is quite noticeable ;)

lanczos3.png

 

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Posted (edited)

No offense taken at all.

I am doing what I should be doing...asking questions, investigating options, doing due diligence. I said I have not drunk the cool aid - I want to see footage before I would go any further.

One thing I dont get though is if this is the same sensor as the S1, then why do any of you prefer the S1? I am interested in your insights on this because as you rightly point out some of you here have a lot more experience then I do (although I have been tagging along here on this forum since 2002)

But I do get my particular circumstance is not yours and we have different needs. At the end of the day we all want the same thing. Quality footage that is as good as it can be. How we get there is the thing.

I am simply putting it out there - the things that I like about this camera. I am by no means sold on it. The other camera that interests me a great deal is the BMPCC 6K.

Things I feel are non negotiable - 4K-6K 12 bit RAW, good to excellent sensitivity, Nikonos lens compatibility 

I keep asking but no one is saying much ...which camera do you think is the current winner and why? If you were putting together a new rig today what would you select and why. I am sure many readers who find this thread in the months to next year or two ahead will find it interesting....because as you allude to you are very experienced at this. I cant talk for others but I respect that and look up to you for more understanding of the topic.

Edited by John Doe II
added 6K to non negotiable list

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@Davide DB

Curious ......you highlight part of my narrative that says I would like to record from the surface. What from that suggests I have little experience?

This has been done before with a Canon DSLR. There is a company making the USB cable for it and they have software to do it with.

You do agree that at 55m you have little bottom time (on open circuit air - no tech diving mixes or equipment, no rebreather).

Given this fact what do you find so strange about setting up a camera on a tripod and running a cable to the surface to record to a laptop HDD ? The fish I want to record are easily spooked and somewhat timid. They come up out of the depths to spawn in late August at a certain location. After the spawning season they disappear again into the depths for another year and we hardly ever see them till next spawning season. Thats a hard fish to get footage of. During the spawning season I need to get footage of them and I dont have a rebreather......4 mins bottom time approx....how do I get that footage? I guess I can be lucky and catch them spawning as I arrive on site ...I could also win the euro millions.

This is in tropical waters in freshwater. Its gloomy down there but one doesn't need a torch to get around and/or to observe things down there. Some fill light to bring back the colours will do nicely. I am looking to Keldans for that.

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3 hours ago, John Doe II said:

What is the exchange rate of your dirhams to the USD ? (so I know how much you are spending on your opinion)

All of the above are valid. Not suggesting we shoot at 12800. Point is at the ISO we do shoot at, its as clean as a whistle. Amazing how we take this for granted these days. Also, not every scene is lit. Really depends on what you are doing and what sort of project one is constructing. Niche for sure but if thats your thing were else are you finding this?

Rec 2020 while not a big issue today IS going to be in the future. Having RAW footage that conforms to this can only be a good thing. Agree that today most delivery would be in rec 709. Still the footage captured has a wider gamut then rec 709 if its ever needed. Who knows which way this may go as we move forward.

The only downside I can see to full frame is depth of field issues. Harder to manually focus at full frame then B4 for sure.

I am not sure what Pawel has done on the battery life side of things but willing to bet is been dealt with (larger external battery in the housing?) So thats not really an issue for most cameras in a housing.

The only lenses I want to use underwater are Nikonos. Pawels housing has this covered very well. I trust Pawels engineering (He did win an Academy Award for his engineering of a camera after all) on his version of a Nikonos mount to his housing.

Ergonomics....double edged sword here. The best housing for stability will be big. No question about it. Best housing to fly under the radar will be tiny. No doubt about it. This last point depends on where in the world you are operating. I dont want to go any further on that topic. We all have our own needs and this camera being tiny and its housing not much bigger is ideal for me....maybe for you not so much?? But being a tiny housing its definitely going to have its issues in terms of handling and technique to get a good result. No doubt about it. The world is not fair but thats the way it is. In MY particular scenario small gets me in there and shooting whereas a big housing only raises attention that I dont want (or can afford). How that all pans out and the issues that stem from small and difficult to use remain to be seen.

Trade all these for DNG RAW and rec 2020.....

An open standard digital negative is the gold standard. Compute needs are easily overcome today. Storage is getting cheaper all the time. I dont want my RAW capture footage in a proprietary format. I'll take the DNG thanks.

Now having said ALL of that, I am not by any means sold on this FP setup yet. I am not drinking the cool aid here. I need to see footage and hear from people who have used the system. I cant afford to be the guinea pig. But if it shapes as well as its potential says it can then we might have a winner here.

What other cameras are there right now or coming soon? The S1. BMPCC 4K/6K. R5. Is there anything else ? (will not even remotely consider anything Chinese now after what has been done to us by the CCP)

I'd be really interested to hear the details on why you like your chosen camera system.

John

I really cant understand your priorities here. You are looking for a camera that does very well in low light conditions and its really small? That is my understanding so far. If that is what you are interested in and nothing else matters  because for some reason you cant go around with a camera bag, then get a gopro and a very good noise reduction software. The image will be bad anyway if you are shooting dark/deep with no lights. I travel with my complete GH5 rig including lights and WWL1 lens in the case that Nauticam use to ship their housing. Only the float arms go to checked luggage.

Anyway for the shake of discussion,

ISO 12800, many cameras get clean image at this ISO these days. The Fp sensor is the same one used on the S1/H as Interceptor has already said. I dont know what kind of scenes you shoot but in dark underwater environments if you dont use lights you are pretty much done. Where dark you can also consider deep. I shoot in deep water, inside wrecks, inside caves and I dont think I would have any kind of usable image without lights no matter how good the camera sensor would be. 

REC 2020, agreed it is coming quicker and quicker and if you want to be future proof then for sure you want something that covers more than REC709. Now enter log format and you got a wider color space. You dont have to have RAW to have a wide gamut color space. RAW advantage is mostly in color manipulation and WB and to a less extent (compared to stills) to highlight recovery. 

Depth of field, no matter how good the lens is if the subject is not focused then... you get the idea. I dont know how easy it will be to completely manually focus on the small screen of the camera. Does the Fp have focus peaking? How well it is implemented?   

Nothing to say about Pawel, his work speaks of himself. But do not compare professional film productions with amateur productions. 

We are putting ergonomics in completely different end of the scale. Stability is key. You can have the best image quality in the world if the shot is shaky its rejected. For me ergonomics are very important, diving deep where every minute counts is not the place to have a camera with no good ergonomics or gives you limited options to configure it in a way that works for you and your shooting workflow.

Sorry DNG is not the gold standard by any means, it is just an adobe attempt to have something that works well with their software. I am not saying it is bad (though it has its flaws) but it is not the gold standard. 

Not easy to reply to your question on what else is out there, because your required specifications (4k,6k small form factor, 12bit raw, Nikonos) seem to paint the specific camera. So I guess this is your best option. 

I chose my camera based on which system fitted my requirements best at the budget I had.

I am afraid I am missing something on what China has done to us.

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1 hour ago, Davide DB said:

John, no offense at all, but it's clear from what you write that you have little or no experience of underwater filming.

As @Interceptor121 and @Lionfi2sare trying to tell you, it's not all gold that glitters. The data on the paper doesn't necessarily reflect real advantages in the field. Besides, I stopped giving too much importance to VIP reviews on the web years ago. Many people have a strong incentive to push one product over another. Read: biased opinions.

Full frame is by no means the best format to shoot underwater. Even a RED (except the MONSTRO 8K) has a smaller sensor than the FF. On this forum you can find hundreds of posts explaining the pros and cons of having an FF camera. And no, photography is not video. In addition, all these hypothetical advantages will be put to the test by the operator's skills (read my signature).

Since you're talking about costs (and selling a kidney), things are pretty simple: we all know that selling used equipment means losing a lot of money anyway so:

#1 you're a professional. So you can spend a lot of money on the right tool for the job you just took. Surely with the revenue from your work you can easily make up the initial investment in a short/medium period of time.

#2 you are an amateur like many of us here (me first). Then it's important to stay mainstream. Because when you'll sell your used equipment, just having something very common/appealing can make up part of the investment. I have a nice collection of camera housing on the shelf.

It's clear that this camera is very niche. Only one manufacturer of niche underwater enclosures has claimed to make one. Do you think when you decide to sell it, it'll be easy?

That's why they pointed out to you that there is the Panasonic S1/S1H that has the same sensor and an electronics that has a history behind it. And yet, I'm convinced that it would be very difficult to sell a used SH1 housing.

Of course if you are a billionaire who has fallen in love with this camera, then the two options mentioned above do not apply.

Bye

It's not true. My Edius have Lanczos 3 downsampling method among the other and difference is quite noticeable ;)

lanczos3.png

 

Davide resampling is for upscaling it does nothing to downscaling. The calculations to average pixels are complex and typically take minutes for a single frame. So when you go downwards it just skips

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2 hours ago, Interceptor121 said:

Davide resampling is for upscaling it does nothing to downscaling. The calculations to average pixels are complex and typically take minutes for a single frame. So when you go downwards it just skips

Nope. On Edius it works on video downsampling:

https://www.ediusworld.com/old_pdfs/en/support/faq/EDIUS_ResamplingMethod.pdf

https://www.videoproductions.com.au/html/edius-downscale.html

 

 

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We need to make a distinction
Pixel binning in camera averages pixels at source before any process takes place this process increases SNR
This can also work for static images that are not demosaiced
Video however is different (if already demosaiced and all formats are actually at least to an extent demosaiced)
The pixels have already gone chroma subsampling so the scaling operation decreases SNR. Lanczos is a good algorithm because it selects the best pixel of a group however that group of pixels is already debayered and sub sampled so the outcome is worse and not compared with averaging pixels at source
This misconception is common amongst all people that think shooting at higher resolution and then scaling down improves things, it doesn’t as you also see from the document there are always side effects


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1 hour ago, Interceptor121 said:


We need to make a distinction
Pixel binning in camera averages pixels at source before any process takes place this process increases SNR
This can also work for static images that are not demosaiced
Video however is different (if already demosaiced and all formats are actually at least to an extent demosaiced)
The pixels have already gone chroma subsampling so the scaling operation decreases SNR. Lanczos is a good algorithm because it selects the best pixel of a group however that group of pixels is already debayered and sub sampled so the outcome is worse and not compared with averaging pixels at source
This misconception is common amongst all people that think shooting at higher resolution and then scaling down improves things, it doesn’t as you also see from the document there are always side effects


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Why don't you just say I didn't know it! 

it's much simpler. Isn't it? :)

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