AOI UH-EPL10 vs Fantasea FR100iv

[turandot 15]

11 hours ago, Pomacentridae said:

I do hope they launch soon haha i already bought new cameras and lens in anticipation!!

Good news! What camera did you buy? EM5? It's the same camera I have. Isotta plans to launch a new underwater housing for this model.

[Pomacentridae 22]

On 12/11/2020 at 5:17 PM, turandot said:

Good news! What camera did you buy? EM5? It's the same camera I have. Isotta plans to launch a new underwater housing for this model.

Yes I got the EM5III.

Here are some of the latest images from AOI. There are a bunch of other images but I can't seem to figure out how to attach it to this forum. Any best way to do this?

Anyways, they should be shipping soon. I am still asking for details on the specs and lens supported, as well as prices.

Yes I am also waiting on Isotta, but I have not been that successful in getting information from them. 

Edited December 13, 2020 by Pomacentridae

[turandot 15]

Thank you very much for your information.

I've also asked Isotta but I haven't heard from them.

Regarding AOI UH-EM5III.... OM-D Mount system; 60M Depth rating is better than AOI UH-EPL10 only has 45M. I have doubts if the housing will have flash trigger.

I'm thinking about whether to buy an EPL10 camera and AOI UH-EPL10 housing.

Edited December 13, 2020 by turandot

[Pomacentridae 22]

Thank you very much for your information.
I've also asked Isotta but I haven't heard from them.
Regarding AOI UH-EM5III.... OM-D Mount system; 60M Depth rating is better than AOI UH-EPL10 only has 45M. I have doubts if the housing will have flash trigger.
I'm thinking about whether to buy an EPL10 camera and AOI UH-EPL10 housing.

I can confirm there is no built in flash trigger. It’ll be a separate purchase. This is a negative for me too. As it’ll mean more things to buy and bigger bulk.

Vacuum valve is built in with USB-C charging.

The EM5III housing they are saying will carry more lenses. I still want to see which ones, for now they have confirmed the 60mm and 12-40mm pro. I see for the EPL10 they only carry the 60mm, 8mm and 9-18mm, which is limiting for me. Once they make the official announcement and I see the EM5III has significantly more choices i might go with that.

But another thing I am trying to find out is the price of the EM5III housing. If the housing costs 1000 USD. I will be better off getting the EPL10.

As far as I could tell with isotta. It might be the same layout with no built in flash trigger. You’ll still need to get those led flash triggers.




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[Pomacentridae 22]

Here are more pictures of the EM5III Housing.







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[turandot 15]

The housing EM5III have the same OM-D Mount that Olympus Housing PT-EP08/11/14 series. 

For M.Zuiko 8mm PRO lens Backscatter recommended AOI DLP-07 / 08 (8 inch) without extension ring setup for best image corner sharpness and AOI DLP-01 / 02 (4 inch) + AOI 22mm Extension Ring when smallest travel size is primary requirement.

I read the AOI Ports Chart and it's also possible to mount AOI DLP-05 / 06 (4 inch) +  AOI 22mm Extension Ring for M.Zuiko 8mm PRO lens.

 

I love the housing design for EPL10, less volume and more compact. I expected the same idea for AOI and Isotta EM5III, it's a mistake to design the housing with the FL‑LM3 flash unit.

I love this solution..... "flas trigger unit", I love it to keep the design compact.

Edited December 14, 2020 by turandot

[turandot 15]

2 hours ago, Pomacentridae said:

But another thing I am trying to find out is the price of the EM5III housing. If the housing costs 1000 USD. I will be better off getting the EPL10.

I think the same thing.

[turandot 15]

AOI Ports Chart for OLYMPUS Housings. I think is the same port as OM-D Mount we've seen in EM5III housing.
https://www.aoi-uw.com/media/wysiwyg/AOI_Ports_Chart_for_OLYMPUS_Housings.pdf

Edited December 14, 2020 by turandot

[Blenny84 13]

Hi guys,

Very interesting what AOI/Backscatter have come up with the Oly EPL-10.  I am also hunting for a new 'compact' 'travel friendly' mirrorless system and cannot resist the temptation of 'sacrificing' a bit of sensor and AF for the benefit of a much cheaper but still good system.

My thoughts

What I want? I want the EM1-MkII in a Nauticam housing + ports and relevant lenses but that costs too much $$$ for me.

Then I thought - maybe AOI come up with a housing for the EM5-MkIII and I can get something in between? Well yes...but no. Unfortunately the retail price for the EM5MK3 housing its too high in my opinion - see here https://www.uwcamerastore.com/aoi-uh-em5iii-underwater-housing-for-olympus-o-md-e-m5iii - also the fact it uses OM-D ports has killed it for me as I own the WWL-1 and CMC wet lenses which work really well for MFT cameras. 

What I love from the AOI Oly EPL-10 housing. 

The vacuum (although I am not sure if you can take this underwater as it is or needs to be removed prior to diving unlike the Nauticam or like the SaltedWater one) and the LED trigger!!! This is insane for this price. This LED trigger will allow you to shoot continuously at the speed of your strobe recycling times and it wont cost you any battery life on the camera. Not sure what the max sync speed is but I guess it can do 1/250 or more? 

Final thoughts. 

As Alex Mustard puts it in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtuNwnsabfA you are better off with a smaller sensors/body + good lenses for underwater and ports than a bigger sensor without any attachments. Obviously this is all about how much money you have to spend here. 

I also found the lenses Oly/Pana offer are better value for money for UW photography than the Sony range (in case you are looking at the Sony a6400 on a Saltedline housing)

Cheers

[ChrisRoss 150]

9 hours ago, Blenny84 said:

Then I thought - maybe AOI come up with a housing for the EM5-MkIII and I can get something in between? Well yes...but no. Unfortunately the retail price for the EM5MK3 housing its too high in my opinion - see here https://www.uwcamerastore.com/aoi-uh-em5iii-underwater-housing-for-olympus-o-md-e-m5iii - also the fact it uses OM-D ports has killed it for me as I own the WWL-1 and CMC wet lenses which work really well for MFT cameras. 

The vacuum (although I am not sure if you can take this underwater as it is or needs to be removed prior to diving unlike the Nauticam or like the SaltedWater one) and the LED trigger!!! This is insane for this price. This LED trigger will allow you to shoot continuously at the speed of your strobe recycling times and it wont cost you any battery life on the camera. Not sure what the max sync speed is but I guess it can do 1/250 or more?

Why would the OM-D ports not allow you to use WWL/CMC?  all you need is an M67 thread to mount them or a bayonet to the port and the port to be the right length so your lens does not vignette.   The AOI FLP-07 looks like it should do the job, but you can't tell for certain till you see the lens mounted in it.

The vacuum valve looks similar to the original Nauticam one with an o-ring sealed cover to keep the valve dry and the electronics are incorporated into the back cover of the housing.  A vacuum system that needs to be removed to dive is pointless and this one looks very much like it can dive.

Sync speed does not change with LED triggers it's a mechanical feature of the shutter.  Olympus cameras lock out shutter speeds above 1/250 when they detect a flash(at least the models I have do) .  Some triggers get around this by by not reporting to the system they are there but they are generally manual triggers as if the TTL system is running the camera knows about the flash.    You can get higher than advertised sync speed with some systems as you only get a small band across top or bottom of frame that doesn't receive flash and you can often live with that if there is no subject there.

On the subject of LED triggers the little accessory flash works fine for triggering (at the cost of making the housing bigger) and if you are using manual flash you can set it at 1/64 power and it will flash and recycle every bit as fast as your external strobes and use very little battery.  It also gives out a lot of light so can trigger any UW strobe such as S&S strobes which can be finicky if the LED is not bright enough.

[TimG 62]

2 hours ago, ChrisRoss said:

Sync speed does not change with LED triggers it's a mechanical feature of the shutter.

Just for the sake off completeness, I'd make one comment on what Chris says: the new Retra Strobes (the Prime and the Pro), will allow High Speed Syncing when combined with an LED trigger designed to manage that. As an example I'm using a D500 which normally has a 1/250 speed sync but with the Retras and an HSS-enabled trigger, I can shoot as fast as the shutter will go: certainly 1/2000. Terrific for back light shots.

[caolino 7]

Hi,

sometime passed after I published this post and I wonder if anyone manage to compare the 2 set up especially considering only the flat port in both system. 

Are we going to see any substantial improvement if we move to the AOI EPL10 setup when using the kit zoom and the flat port starting from a similar setup with the sonyrx100IV and Fantasea housing?

Thanks for sharing

[ChrisRoss 150]

I think the value for these housings lies elsewhere than improved image quality, you will get about 1 stop more on noise, dynamic range quite similar.  DXO comparison here of EM-5 II and a couple of RX-100 models (closest to the sensor in EPL-10):  https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Olympus-OM-D-E-M5-Mark-II-versus-Sony-Cyber-shot-DSC-RX100-V-versus-Sony-Cyber-shot-DSC-RX100-VII___1006_1128_1336

It's a small and worthwhile improvement, however the real value of the EPL-10 or EM-5 MkIII (which is about one 2/3 stop better again in noise) is the ability to use the dedicated 60mm macro - more magnification and ease of use goes up as it focuses continuously from infinity to 1:1 plus a true fisheye lens.  You can also use the WWL (which you can on the RX-100 also).  The 14-42 and RX-100 24-70 models have similar fields of view and as a result similar field of view  with a WWL . 

If you already have an RX-100 the case for the EPL-10 is less compelling, however the EM-5 III assuming same performance as the the EM-1 MkII sensor is another step up again in noise and about half stop better in dynamic range as well so starts to get into quite a reasonable upgrade from a 1"sensor. 

If you are starting from scratch or a small  compact of course the upgrade is more significant so buying an EPL-10 instead of an RX-100 makes perfect sense.

[turandot 15]

EPL10 + AOI UH-EPL10 is a good combo for the new underwater users and an ideal upgrade from TG Cameras.

Cheap combo, small size, compact for travel, medium size sensor (4/3) and interchangeable lenses.

https://www.backscatter.com/reviews/post/Olympus-E-PL10-Underwater-Camera-Housing-Review

[Dann-Oh 40]

7 hours ago, caolino said:

Hi,

sometime passed after I published this post and I wonder if anyone manage to compare the 2 set up especially considering only the flat port in both system. 

Are we going to see any substantial improvement if we move to the AOI EPL10 setup when using the kit zoom and the flat port starting from a similar setup with the sonyrx100IV and Fantasea housing?

Thanks for sharing

@caolino I think it depends on what else you photograph.  I upgraded from the RX100VA in a fantasea housing to the EPL10 in the AOI housing.  I chose the EPL10 because I like the idea of focusing on one type of photograph per day of diving, I can se up my 8mm fisheye and 4" dome port so I can focus on CFWA images all day long and then tomorrow I can set up my 60mm macro and port to focus on macro for the day. I can also toss the 14-42 kit lens or any other lens in to my bag for documenting my outing while on surface intervals.

 

The biggest thing I noticed was battery performance when upgrading to the EPL10.  The battery will last me a full 3 dive day as well as some topside images (selfies with friends, Dolphins playing in the bow wake, birds hangout near us). When I was using the RX100Va I had to use a new battery for each dive and then a the battery for topside fun, I had a plastic case labels for each dive so I didn't mix them up. The RX100 needs to use the built in flash (which drains battery quickly) to trigger external strobes, the EPL10 can use the flash trigger which uses a different battery.

 

Honestly the size of the EPL10 with the 14-42 kit lens is about he same size as the RX100Va when both are in their housings.  I am able to take the EPL10 with the 14-42 in my BCD pocket when I am working as an assistant DM  (or as a DM is the instructor approves me to bring the camera).  This allows me to photograph students first dives after certification with minimum bulk, I leave the tray and lights at home but just bring camera in housing.

Edited March 4, 2022 by Dann-Oh

[caolino 7]

@dann-oh I started my journey with super small Sony compact camera without red filter and then I moved to TG2 +red filter and then to the sonyrx100iv with single strobe. I mainly do CFWA and I like big things but time to time a like some macro but not super macro.
In the change between Olympus and the last Sony, I lost the macro part but I got very good dynamic range, resolution to crop, raw to manage correction and colours mainly thanks to the strobe while still compact.
What I miss is battery duration, speed because of internal flash (mainly) and sometime ability to stay closer to the subject. macro with full zoom is a challenge.


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[caolino 7]

If you already have an RX-100 the case for the EPL-10 is less compelling, however the EM-5 III assuming same performance as the the EM-1 MkII sensor is another step up again in noise and about half stop better in dynamic range as well so starts to get into quite a reasonable upgrade from a 1"sensor. 
If you are starting from scratch or a small  compact of course the upgrade is more significant so buying an EPL-10 instead of an RX-100 makes perfect sense.

Thanks, very clear. My only concern is that moving to em5 or em1 will increase the overall setup (weight and size) and loosing the compact setup. I have not seen an housing comparison between the 2 of them but it seems considerably bigger. What do you think?


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[ChrisRoss 150]

26 minutes ago, caolino said:

 

Thanks, very clear. My only concern is that moving to em5 or em1 will increase the overall setup (weight and size) and loosing the compact setup. I have not seen an housing comparison between the 2 of them but it seems considerably bigger. What do you think?


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Every thing's a compromise, certainly the housing is a little bigger but for me the better image quality and better AF would sway me in that direction.  Your acceptable compromises may well be different to mine.  The downside to me of the AOI EM-5III housing is it doesn't include a pickup eyepiece for the EVF, so you would be working off the back screen.

[Dann-Oh 40]

On 3/5/2022 at 11:21 PM, caolino said:

 

Thanks, very clear. My only concern is that moving to em5 or em1 will increase the overall setup (weight and size) and loosing the compact setup. I have not seen an housing comparison between the 2 of them but it seems considerably bigger. What do you think?


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Don't forget that the EM5 and the Em1 housings both use the OMD size port and not the PEN sized port therefore increasing the cost of the ports and the overall size of the system.   It might be worth it to price out the systems on backscatter to see which way your budget will allow you to go.  Also I wouldn't want to use the 14-42 on the em5 or em1.

[Phil Rudin 485]

On 7/31/2020 at 6:33 AM, caolino said:

Hi,

despite the covid situation the gear syndrome is there and I'm now thinking if the new setup release by AOI with the Pen10 can be a valid upgrade of my compact setup with fantasea and sony rx100iv.

My key drivers for improvement are:

1) stay compact

2) improve battery life

3) improve flash recycle time and keep TTL (I use an external strobe)

4) decrease the focus distance without additional wet lens to allow CFWD and/or simil macro

I'd like to have more resolution for cropping as well but I know already that this will be a step back.

Thanks

The answer for Caolino, the original poster is YES the EPL-10 is a valid upgrade from a compact. In fact the target buyer for this system is someone entering into underwater photography, moving up from a cell phone or compact and more. It is without doubt the best value in an interchangeable lens package you can find in the market. The system is targeted at recreational divers just like the old Olympus systems so a 45m depth rating is more than adequate. #1 yes the system is compact, #2 yes battery power is improved because it does not use flash powered by the camera. #3 Yes the recycle times are very fast, the included flash trigger is rechargeable using a mini USB and when I tested this system I never had the battery fail. NO the flash trigger is not TTL, most TTL flash triggers start at around $450.00USD just for the trigger. #4 The housing package from Backscatter with the custom Octo trim ships with the housing, flat port with 67mm threads, EPL-10 camera with "kit" 14-42mm lens, lens gear, vacuum system, manual flash trigger and more for $1298.00USD complete. For wide angle and CFWA you can add a verity of wide wet lenses, I tested the AOI UWL-09 wide conversion lens. For macro you can add a verity of C/U lenses, I tested the AOI UCL-09 +12.5 C/U lens. You can also use the Olympus 60mm macro in a custom port or the 8mm fisheye in a custom port.

I don't see a huge downside to the 16MP sensor V 20MP for the OM-line because the buyers for this system will not be looking to make large prints in most cases and if they are they should know to pass on this system and go to a larger sensor. 

The comparison to the AOI EM-5 III housing is just not apples to apples because that housing plus the flash trigger alone cost over $1000.00USD. 

If the AOI housings and the compatibility of Olympus PT housing ports seem like Deja vu it's because AOI has built the Olympus housings for years.

You can read my review of the AOI/EPL-10 system in back issue #122 at uwpmag.com, this is a free PDF download.