Dive Suit: Semi-Dry or Dry

[Lost-Oost 1]

Hi

I know this is a photography forum but hope you guys can help.

I've been diving since the age of 12 and have done plenty and bit of diving. The problem is that I've been fortunate my whole life diving in temperate to warm waters where the water temperature rarely goes below 18C.

Now living in Cape Town, South Africa, the water temp ranges from 8C to about 16C max from a few discussions I've had with divers in the area.

I've always dived in 3mm to max 5mm wetsuits and have to invest in some warmer gear. I have zero experience in these cold conditions and have been looking at semi-dry suits to neoprene dry and tri-lam suits. Tri-lam suits is out of my budget range as I'm currently saving to start building a new camera rig.

A lot of diving in Cape Town are shore entries and boat launches so the suit need to be tough to withstand a bit of work.

Are there any of you cold water experts on here that can provide some sound advice on decent suits, what to look for and what to avoid?

 

[TimG 62]

Brrrr, I feel your pain!

In that sort of temperature there is no substitute for a fully dry suit (rather then semi-dry). Apart from anything else, they make a huge difference to how you feel post-dive. In a full dry suit you soon warm up again once out of the water.

As to a neoprene or trilaminate suit, I've always felt trilaminate was tougher and more harder-wearing that neoprene which, like any like wetsuit, gets scuffed and scrapped. But, yes, trilaminate costs more. I guess, if you can, you should try both and reach a view on feel and which let's you move best for photography. If it finally comes down to cost, just bear in mind the wear factor.

One other thought is that, unless you really are a bog standard, average shape (whatever that might be!), then made-to-measure dry suits are great! I've had my DUI one for more than 20 years and, it's still in great shape: trilaminate. Happily I've not put on any kilos!

 

[GeorgeH 1]

There are great drysuits made out of both Trilaminate and neoprene. There is a difference between standard neoprene and crushed/compressed neoprene drysuits. You should be able to find a quality crushed neoprene suit for a bit less than a quality trilaminate.

Generally a quality crushed neoprene drysuit will be tougher than a trilaminate. There will be exceptions but I feel differently than TimG. Puget Sound has similar temperatures. I just ordered a new customized Bare Sentry Tech Dry, made out of high density Yamamoto neoprene with high stretch and high resistance to compression,  I had a Bare SB and while out of the water the last 5 years, a mouse chewed a hole in it and with the seams delaminating, Bare offered a trade-in. I loved the SB, a unique stretch trilaminate that Bare could never control from delaminating. I had considered the Bare X-MISSION EVOLUTION but decided on the  Sentry.

There are pros and cons to both. The crushed, high density neoprene suits can add a little insulation but not much. Trilaminate adds none and you rely exclusively on undergarments. Crushed neoprene won't change buoyancy, either does Trilaminate, are stretchy and don't tend to be as baggy as trilaminate and trilaminate doesn't stretch at all.

If you travel a lot, the trilaminate is much lighter and drys much faster than neoprene.

[Lost-Oost 1]

Thank you to both TimG and GeorgeH for the valuable info shared.

I tend to support GeorgeH more in my case as the South African coast is fairly rugged, I was looking at one of the shore entry spots the other day where the guys had to climb over boulders lined with sharp mussels just to get to the water and a Trilam will mos definately get damaged easily in our conditions.

I just had a look at the Bare Sentry Tech Dry, wow......if only we had a Bare dealer in South Africa, import taxes for us pushes the price up about 40%, again it becomes super expensive. But I have a good idea what to look out for now and will focus on similar but more towards local available brands like the Scubapro ExoDry 4.

Once again, thank you. 

 

[ChrisRoss 150]

conditions sound like what we get in Sydney Australia, getting in over wave washed rocks.  Both neoprene and trilam suits are popular here.  I just bought a Seatec custom made neoprene suit - they are made in Sydney and it has features like kevlar knee pads and the suit itself is quite tough while also providing a reasonable amount of insulation without undergarments - I dive mine with a pair of thermal leggings long sleeve thermal Tee shirt and a polar fleece on top in water as cold as 14°C.  Doesn't get quite as cold as Cape Town but people dive with these in Tasmania where it's 10°C in winter.  Prices are quite reasonable too. 

Bear in mind that seals at the wrist and neck are consumables - so check that they are either user replaceable (in case of tri-lam) or there is somewhere that can do those repairs locally - I suspect there should be.  The neoprene suit I have uses smoothskin foam seals which require lube to get over your wrists and the neck slips over your head easily as you fold the seal over at the neck to make the seal.  These seals are warmer than latex/silicon seals and probably a bit more durable but if you damage them you need a repair shop to make them good again.  

Other features - mine you could get boots or socks - you can turn socks inside out to wash the interior and dry them boots you can't.  They get manky if you sweat in them and you will particularly on hot spring days when the water is still cold.  If you have big feet check you can get big enough overboots.

Assume you know about suit squeeze and adding air to compensate and the potential for air bubbles in the legs leaving you hanging head down - most likely with tri-lam suits.   Also there is a bit of maintenance involved - a wetsuit you can soak in a tub, a dry suit you can also but you need to dry out both sides - I hang mine up and hose the outside and periodically clean more thoroughly.  The valves need checking they are safety devices.  And you have to be careful with the seals.  The dryzip is also something requiring care and attention.  You need to careful not to fold it or catch undergarments in it - it requires waxing to keep it moving freely.

Also buy a roll up changing mat - standing on small stones in drysuit socks is asking for trouble.

 

[TimG 62]

Good point on the socks v boots.

My first dry suit had built in boots. My second (the DUI one) had socks and then a "rock boot" that you wore over the sock. I found the latter much tougher and better for walking. You just have to make sure the foot in your fins is large enough to take the boot.

One thing we've not mentioned yet is gloves. Dry gloves are, I think, great. You wear a thinnish wool glove - or similar underneath for warmth. If you go with dry gloves, many of them have a twist-lock mechanism to secure them to the suit. I found these much better than those are semi-permanently mounted which are a bit of a faff to remove.

Or you can go with neoprene gloves which can be thicker, don't keep your hands dry (of course!). They can be a bit more cumbersome, I found, taking pics.

Chris' changing mat is a good idea.

Also check out where the dry zip is placed and how easy it is to open on your own. Classic across the rear shoulder ones can be tricky to open solo!  My DUI has one that zips from the top of one shoulder down the front to just below waist length. I found that easy to open and climb out of - much easier than the shoulder arrangement.

[Architeuthis 140]

15 hours ago, Lost-Oost said:

Hi

I know this is a photography forum but hope you guys can help.

I've been diving since the age of 12 and have done plenty and bit of diving. The problem is that I've been fortunate my whole life diving in temperate to warm waters where the water temperature rarely goes below 18C.

Now living in Cape Town, South Africa, the water temp ranges from 8C to about 16C max from a few discussions I've had with divers in the area.

I've always dived in 3mm to max 5mm wetsuits and have to invest in some warmer gear. I have zero experience in these cold conditions and have been looking at semi-dry suits to neoprene dry and tri-lam suits. Tri-lam suits is out of my budget range as I'm currently saving to start building a new camera rig.

A lot of diving in Cape Town are shore entries and boat launches so the suit need to be tough to withstand a bit of work.

Are there any of you cold water experts on here that can provide some sound advice on decent suits, what to look for and what to avoid?

 

Hi Oost,

I dive since 1981 and for decades had exclusively neoprene suits. In 2013I decided to go for a trilaminate suit and I never regret. Especially as a photographer you do not move much and are prone to freezing. Now I take the trilaminate with thin underwear at water temperatures > 22 °C. Of course neoprene wetsuits are more comfortable to wear. Semi-dry is a bit warmer than wet, but it is no comparison to a drysuit, that is much, much, warmer...

I case you are very careful with your suit (nothing for me) and the temparature is not too low, there exist also drysuits made of regular neoprene. A few years ago I saw people in Italy (Elba) diving with such suits, I had the impression diving with them was as comfortable as diving with a 5mm wetsuit, but much, much warmer...

My recommendation (and what I have) is trilaminate with the expensive, but excellent, Fourth Element underwear (Arctic when it is cold and Xerotherm when warmer, you can combine them also (e.g. for 14°C I will take the Xerotherm leggings and the Arctic top)). Silicone seals at the arms and the neck for quick and easy exchange. I have an integrated neoprene hood that gives best thermal insulination. Also a protection zipper above the dry-zipper can be recommended. As drygloves I have the Si-tech QPS system.

 

Wolfgang

Edited December 20, 2020 by Architeuthis

[SwiftFF5 134]

Lots of good advice above.  I dive a vulcanized rubber drysuit, mostly because it is much easier to decontaminate after getting in mucky water, but they are generally more expensive than the trilam or neoprene drysuits discussed above, and also tend to be a bit stiffer and impede your swimming to a small degree.  Although I always wear dry gloves with that drysuit, I generally don't bother with the glove liners, since my hands don't tend to get too cold if my core is warm.  Very good advice above on maintenance, and seal replacement.  If you are using latex seals, they require care and still need periodic replacement. 

[Lost-Oost 1]

Thank you to all for the excellent advice and inputs above, much appreciated!!

I found a local local dry suit manufacturer based in Cape Town, "Cape Gear" (blueuflash.co.za), that I want to visit when back home during my rotational leave. Better peace of mind to have the manufacturer in your same town, should something go wrong or need repairs. They also do repairs to all brands and types of dry suits with a reputable history, even better peace of mind....

From the above responses, I made a pro/con list and the tri-lam suit does have more pro's than cons for my requirements. Relatively more expensive on the initial investment but more cost effective over time for sure.

Once again, thank you for this platform and to everyone for their valuable input.

[IrishMike 0]

If you have a look at othree drysuits in the UK, I found them fantastic. Although on the more expensive side, I found a big difference when diving in temperate water (Ireland - 12 / 13 degrees in Summer) when compared with my old semi dry suit. I went with a crushed neoprene model they have.

[stuartv 32]

I have 2 drysuits from Seaskin. One trilam and one compressed neoprene. They are awesome suits. Top quality.

All of Seaskin's suits are made to measure, so both of mine fit me perfectly. And they are so inexpensive that many people react with a comment like "there's no way they can be any good for that cheap." But they ARE that good. My neoprene suit cost me just under USD$900, with shipping. My trilam has more options, including Kubi dry glove rings and a Si Tech Quick Neck system to allow user-changeable neck seals. It was about USD$1100, with shipping (from the UK).

The basic compressed neoprene suit, with no extra options is only 474 British Pounds (with VAT)! And that is still made to measure. For someone in the US, with no VAT and converted to USD, that is a custom made to measure compressed neoprene drysuit for a little over USD$500! The trilam with no options is 549 Pounds. So, roughly USD$600 (w/no VAT).

I really cannot recommend them highly enough.

https://www.seaskin.co.uk/

[bvanant 189]

I second the vote for Seaskin. Great suits, very inexpensive, I have the SiTech neck and wrist seals.  I have about 800 dives on mine and it has behaved perfectly. I will be ordering a second one for backup (I have the plastic zipper and if they fail it is quite sudden). 

Bill

[TimG 62]

54 minutes ago, bvanant said:

 (I have the plastic zipper and if they fail it is quite sudden). 

Bill

That sounds kinda chilly, Bill! Brrrrr 

[Architeuthis 140]

I can add something regarding the zippers: my wife and me have Seaskin trilaminate since 8 years now. I have sent them back to the factory, the first time since purchase, for general maintenance, pressure-check and we want additional bags on the legs (we now have wingsuits, no more space to store anythings). The company contacted me and wrote that after the pressure test they think the zippers (they are made from metal), need to be exchanged...

=> I think this is o.k. for a span of 8 years and hope we will dive with the suits for many more years. Like Bvanant and Stuart I can recommend Seaskin as really good value drysuits, although one may get more comfortable suits (softer and lighter fabric, but still durable) in the very high price segment...

 

Wolfgang

[stuartv 32]

5 hours ago, Architeuthis said:

I can add something regarding the zippers: my wife and me have Seaskin trilaminate since 8 years now. I have sent them back to the factory, the first time since purchase, for general maintenance, pressure-check and we want additional bags on the legs (we now have wingsuits, no more space to store anythings). The company contacted me and wrote that after the pressure test they think the zippers (they are made from metal), need to be exchanged...

=> I think this is o.k. for a span of 8 years and hope we will dive with the suits for many more years. Like Bvanant and Stuart I can recommend Seaskin as really good value drysuits, although one may get more comfortable suits (softer and lighter fabric, but still durable) in the very high price segment...

 

Wolfgang

 

I have various friends with just about every kind of drysuit. I myself have also had Bare and Waterproof suits. I have friends with Santi, Fourth Element, DUI, Otter, O'three, Bare, Waterproof, Hollis, Aqualung/Whites, ScubaPro, Deep6 Gear, Ursuit, ScubaForce, and probably some that I can't remember right now. I used to be an instructor for a shop that sold most of those brands.

I cannot name another suit that I think is softer and lighter fabric than the Seaskin trilaminate that I think is also as durable as the Seaskin. Maybe there is one out there and I just haven't seen it. But, considering you can buy 3 Seaskin drysuits for the cost of one custom fit Santi or Fourth Element (just for example) I'll be sticking with Seaskin...

[bvanant 189]

On 2/6/2021 at 11:16 AM, TimG said:

That sounds kinda chilly, Bill! Brrrrr 

It's worse. Once your drysuit fills up with water it is really difficult to climb  back up the ladder onto the boat. Lots of handing gear up to the deck then getting out of the suit while in the water.

Happened to me only once but I will remember it.

BVA

[TimG 62]

46 minutes ago, bvanant said:

It's worse. Once your drysuit fills up with water it is really difficult to climb  back up the ladder onto the boat. Lots of handing gear up to the deck then getting out of the suit while in the water.

Happened to me only once but I will remember it.

BVA

Woah - I'd never thought of that one! Sounds fabulous. Not.

[JohnLiddiard 29]

One trick for getting back into the boat with a fully flooded drysuit is to get your friends in the boat to pull you out with the source of the leak downmost. As this is most likely to be a torn seal or zip, then being pulled out feet first is typical. That way the water runs out as you are lifted and they are only lifting your weight, not your weight plus all the water. You will probably want a regulator in your mouth while they are doing this. 

[TimG 62]

4 hours ago, JohnLiddiard said:

One trick for getting back into the boat with a fully flooded drysuit is to get your friends in the boat to pull you out with the source of the leak downmost. As this is most likely to be a torn seal or zip, then being pulled out feet first is typical. That way the water runs out as you are lifted and they are only lifting your weight, not your weight plus all the water. You will probably want a regulator in your mouth while they are doing this. 

 I would LOVE to see photos posted of this!

[bvanant 189]

Well we didn't do it that way. I handed up my camera and BC while standing on the lowest rung of the ladder. Then I took the damn thing off while standing in the water. It was only 11C (52F) so it wasn't as bad as say Alaska, but no more dives that day.

 

Bill

 

[davephdv 0]

I have several of both.

 

below 60 degrees you want a dry suit. A semi dry is only a mildly warmer wetsuit. I like them, but not below 60.

 

I had a commercial suit that was skin in, 3/8 inch farmer John and a skin in pull over jacket where the offset zipper only went half way up and the hood was attached. It was as warm as a dry suit.