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MarineMegafauna

Help with my new YS-D2 strobes, from a desperate researcher in Mozambique

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Hey,  wondered if anyone had had a similar issue or could help me trouble shoot.

Just had someone bring me 2 new strobes for my camera. I shoot with a Canon 5D Mark IV in a Nauticam housing. Both are YS-D2s but one is a YS-D2J and the other is not (just a YS-D2).

I have been using the YS-D1s for ages. Never had an issue.

First time I set up my camera with my new YS-D2 strobes one worked and one did not (the J one worked).

I tried the strobe not working on 2 other camera systems, a compact Sony RX100 Mark V and my old Nikon D800 both in Nauticam housings and it strangely worked on both of these systems.

It is not the sync cord. I have changed out for several new cables. Strobe wont even work on my system set up as a slave.

It is blowing my mind as it works without any issues at all on the other two camera systems I described above.

Am I loosing my mind? What could it be?

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How are you triggering the strobes with the 5D Mark IV?

What settings are you using (on camera and strobe?)

Adam

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If you are using a TTL optical trigger board, they have two different settings for those strobes.

The only way to fire them as a dual setup will be in manual. You need to set the board and the camera to manual strobe firing settings.

Both require high-quality multifiber cords to fire consistently.

Jack

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Thanks guys. I always shoot in manual. Camera and strobes, my whole life. I have been a semi professional photographer for 20 years. I have really checked everything obvious. Jumped on here because I had exhausted all other possibilities. Was just wondering if anyone else had encountered this issue with this specific camera or strobe before. It is super bizarre to me that the strobe works with two other systems. If I put my old US-D1s back on my my system they both fire fine. The D2s are almost the same strobe so I have no idea what is going on or what the problem would be. I would think the one new strobe was faulty except it works on other camera systems. Blowing my mind...

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You're using electrical sync, right? Not fibre optic??

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The devil is in the details with flash trouble shooting - optical triggering and electrical triggering have their own issues to deal with. I assume optical as the RX100 doesn't have a hot shoe?   Neither the Nikon D800 or 5DIV have built in flashes from memory, so are you using the same trigger for both cameras?

S&S is known for having a slave sensor that is not all that sensitive - normally it will work with an onboard flash even at minimum power with no problem but with LED triggers it needs every thing to line up perfectly, with good placement of LED under the fibre and the very best multi fibre cables.  I don't know if if the D2 is any different to the D2J in that regard but it is possible it is less sensitive.  If you are using different LED triggers it's not a test of your 5DIV setup.

Which triggering method are you using and which type of trigger for each test?  What type of optic fibre cables are you using?  Have you checked the connector on the YS-D2 for any obvious problems?

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Yes I am using fiber optic for all of the systems. The fiber optic cables work on all of my camera systems with the Sea and Sea D1s and they work with the D2s on all systems except my Canon 5D Mark IV (Nauticam housing). So it cant be the cables.

The fiber optic cables trigger the D2J strobe on my 5D Mark IV Nauticam housing fine just not the D2 (normal one). As I said I would have thus concluded it was the strobe but the D2 strobe fires with my cables on two other systems just fine.

So the only thing left would be the Nauticam housing itself, except everything works fine with the D1 and the D2J strobes just not the D2 strobe.

I really cant understand it. I am pretty good at trouble shooting and fixing camera related gear. I have a PhD for goodness sake but this I really cant seem to get my head around. Sadly I live in the bush in Mozambique. I cant take it to anyone or ship it to anyone.

I am a marine biologist and am dependent on my camera system working. It is Corona times. I have not been able to leave for a year. If someone on this group cant help me I officially give up.

Thanks so much to those that have replied already. I appreciate you taking the time to think about it. I assume *hoped it would be an obvious problem or that it was a manufacturing issue that comes up with this strobe and camera all of the time. Anyone out there successfully using the normal D2s with a Canon 5DMarkIV Nauticam housing?

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So...the issue is likely with the output of the flash trigger. The YS-D2Js are fussy about both the amount of light and it’s color.

Amount is easy to gauge...connect everything except the strobes, look at the strobe end of the cable and you should see a flash. How bright is this? While we are at it, what color is it?

Given that the the 5D does not have a flash, how are you generating an optical signal? It is (probably) either via a circuit in the housing, or a flash unit that you attach to the camera’s hot shoe. A picture would help here!

The YS-D2s are notoriously fussy about this. It is a relatively “well known” issue.

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Hi Megafauna

For hat I read, the S&S do not have the most sensitive optical sensor.

For any reason with the the 5D/Nauticam it is not arriving enought light tithe sensor of the strobe.

as it is working with other cameras, assuming that the test was made with the same cable, that means that the trigger (if different from the other system that is working) and alignment with the housing window has more light loss than on the other system.

are you sure the optical cable is a multifiber one? S&S strobes need good quality optical fiber cables. if the cable is not “extra” quality, due to the bigger loss in the trigger/alignment on the Nauticam, the light reaching the strobe is not enough, although it is enough in the other system (although it might be on the limit)

Just to give you an exemple, I have INON Z240 strobes and cheap Chinese FO cables, and time to time I have problems underwater due to the air bubble that get stuck in the socket where the cables are connected (some time on the housing, other times on the strobe). I need to take out the cable underwater, free any air inside the sockets and connect the cable again and problem solved. But in my case they work fine out-of-water. This does not seams the problem you have, but it is a representation of how easy is to have the link “broken”.

at the beginning, when I started using a led trigger, I had problems getting the led of the trigger properly aligned inside the housing socket. that was resulting in not getting enough light into the cable (proper alignment of the led and the cable is quite important, as it can be responsible for a big loss of light)

 

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3 hours ago, MarineMegafauna said:

Yes I am using fiber optic for all of the systems. The fiber optic cables work on all of my camera systems with the Sea and Sea D1s and they work with the D2s on all systems except my Canon 5D Mark IV (Nauticam housing). So it cant be the cables.

The fiber optic cables trigger the D2J strobe on my 5D Mark IV Nauticam housing fine just not the D2 (normal one). As I said I would have thus concluded it was the strobe but the D2 strobe fires with my cables on two other systems just fine.

So the only thing left would be the Nauticam housing itself, except everything works fine with the D1 and the D2J strobes just not the D2 strobe.

I really cant understand it. I am pretty good at trouble shooting and fixing camera related gear. I have a PhD for goodness sake but this I really cant seem to get my head around. Sadly I live in the bush in Mozambique. I cant take it to anyone or ship it to anyone.

I am a marine biologist and am dependent on my camera system working. It is Corona times. I have not been able to leave for a year. If someone on this group cant help me I officially give up.

Thanks so much to those that have replied already. I appreciate you taking the time to think about it. I assume *hoped it would be an obvious problem or that it was a manufacturing issue that comes up with this strobe and camera all of the time. Anyone out there successfully using the normal D2s with a Canon 5DMarkIV Nauticam housing?

There is still the issue of what you are using to trigger the strobes.   Only the RX-100 II has a hotshoe if you are using an onboard flash to trigger the strobe it puts out way more light then any LED trigger and doesn't tell you anything.  Likewise the D800 also has a pop-up flash so if it is in use to trigger again that test tells you nothing.  I would also guess if you were using LED triggers on the others it is a different dedicated LED trigger which may put out more light than the trigger for the 5DIV.

Likewise for the cables the fact they trigger the YS-D2 on other trigger/cable combos does not necessarily mean your cable is fine.   Fine in this case means transmit enough light to keep the YS-D2 happy.  Again different cables have more or less attenuation.

You could daisy-chain your strobes- there is an outlet next to the fibre optic input that can relay the flash output from D2J strobe to the slave input of D2 strobe this should certainly work at the cost of having a cable running between the two strobes - hopefully your cables are long enough. 

You may be able to find a TOS-link cable locally-  the plugs on them (at least one I purchased) will fit well  in the S&S fibre optic plug with a little trimming, you would look in AV stores for them, they might transmit more light and may be a good solution if your cable is not long enough to do the daisy chain thing.  Because it is transmitting the output of the strobe any cable should be fine as there is way more light.

 

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This thread describes the problem with the YS-D2s and fiber optic triggering...

 

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6 hours ago, adamhanlon said:

This thread describes the problem with the YS-D2s and fiber optic triggering...

 

Thanks Adam, you will note in that thread Jack Connick suggests that the YS-D2 is less sensitive than the D2J, which fits, also the discussion on fibre optic cables and the variation in transmission.  If you can obtain 3mm end glow fibre optic cable that may be worth trying.  A quick google found this:  https://madagascar.desertcart.com/search/3mm PMMA end

Appears it is available to ship to Madagascar through this vendor, might be worth googling to find a local vendor.

Also add the daisy chaining is included in the manual on page 22:

http://www.seaandsea.jp/products/strobe/ysd2/manual_GPGM.pdf

 

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One other point to consider: I was talking to one of the guys at Reef Photo and they said that the D2, D2J, and D3 are not just not very sensitive, they said that it varies from one individual strobe to the next. So, any specific D2 could be more or less sensitive than the D2J you're comparing it to.

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Hey all. Thanks so much to everyone that tried to help me problem solve. The problem is not going away and I cant seem to figure it out. It must be something with this particular model strobe and my canon camera which uses a flash trigger *see attached. Thanks for letting me know that the D2s are ultra sensitive. This is all that it could be. There is a strong white light being produced by the flash trigger on both sides of the trigger. The flash trigger works with the D1s. Also weird that the D2Js work and not the normal D2s. I wish I had known this before buying and shipping one of them all the way out to Mozambique during Corona times. They should come with a warning and hopefully stores can start letting people know that this might be a problem so that it doesnt happen to others. For now I will have to return to the D1s. Thanks everyone.

Flash trigger.jpg

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Really frustrating MarineMegafauna!

As you'll see from various recent posts on other threads, this is, sadly, not an uncommon problem. It's an issue of the strobes low sensitivity and the need for high light-transmitting fibre optic cables.

 

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