Sea&Sea YS-D3 doesn't work with UWT TTL trigger?

[ScottAudette 7]

Got to be honest I love my D3's via electric sync. But was thinking of switching to fiber so I can get the strobes off-camera. So, actively following where this goes!

[JustinO 8]

I bought two D3s last year, and got the S&S  fibre cables at the same time.  Pleased to confirm it works well (as claimed by S&S) with the Nauticam Oly trigger, which has white light LEDs.  I do make sure to keep my sensor windows and cables scrupulously clean just in case, and I'm careful about how I pack the cables to avoid wear and tear as they aren't cheap!

[stuartv 34]

Well, I received the official S&S cables, and I could not get the D3 to work with them and the UWT trigger.

 

I do note that the UWT trigger LEDs are red, not white. 

 

What was weird was I set the D3 to Manual (no pre-flash). I tried several shots. It never fired.

 

Then I set the D3 to Pre-Flash and tried several shots. It never fired.

 

Then I set the D3 to TTL and the first test shot, the strobe fired! But then it never fired again, on that strobe setting or either of the others.

 

Meanwhile, my Z240 would fire every time.

 

The S-Turtle trigger is estimated to be delivered on Wed. Hopefully, that one will work to trigger the D3s....

[JustinO 8]

Well, that is weird - am no physicist, but suggests the sensor may not be as sensitive to red light?  Just took a look at the S-Turtle trigger - looks like an interesting bit of kit, .  Maybe test it on Manual rather than TTL first just to ensure you get a bright enough output?  Fingers crossed it works for you!

[stuartv 34]

I've been doing everything on Manual. I only switched the strobe to TTL and that was only to be thorough - i.e. try everything with only the strobe being changed to every one of its options.

I do think that there is a good possibility that it is the color of the LED that is making a difference. I can't remember why, but I have the idea that the S-Turtle is white light. That plus them updating their trigger last year to a brighter LED (than what they used before - 80-90 candela to 150 candela) is giving me hope that I will get these strobes to work.

[Pavel Kolpakov 78]

YS-D3 has an extremely low optical input sensitivity. To control such input, Sea&Sea produces their own optical YS Converter, powered by big size AAA batteries (2 pcs.). Those batteries have only 12 hours of continuous working time, because device eats a giant energy, like a xenon flash. I don't think that such power solution is adequate for  LED control systems at all. YS-D3 needs it for optical control.

    By the way, did you try YS-D3 with an electric sync cord?  Most of TTL Converters on the market also can control TTL strobes by electric sync cord, it can solve the problem.

Edited January 20, 2021 by Pavel Kolpakov

[stuartv 34]

8 hours ago, Pavel Kolpakov said:

YS-D3 has an extremely low optical input sensitivity. To control such input, Sea&Sea produces their own optical YS Converter, powered by big size AAA batteries (2 pcs.). Those batteries have only 12 hours of continuous working time, because device eats a giant energy, like a xenon flash. I don't think that such power solution is adequate for  LED control systems at all. YS-D3 needs it for optical control.

    By the way, did you try YS-D3 with an electric sync cord?  Most of TTL Converters on the market also can control TTL strobes by electric sync cord, it can solve the problem.

 

I have not tried it with electrical sync cord. I don't have the cord or bulkhead for that. I was considering going that route, but since the UWT trigger does not have a profile for the YS-D3 anyway, I decided to try the S-Turtle trigger with fiber optic instead. I would definitely prefer to stick with fiber optic. Also, the the facts that the S-Turtle has a TTL profile for the YS-D3, it is user updateable in its firmware, and I can change what flash unit profile it is set for using a phone app are very appealing as well. Changing the strobe profile on the UWT is always a challenge for me. I have to open the housing, and have a very small screwdriver, and it's hard to see in there to tell what I'm doing when I'm trying to change that selector.

The S-Turtle was a bit more expensive than changing to an electrical sync cord. But, if it works, hopefully I can sell my UWT trigger for enough to cover the difference.

[ScottAudette 7]

I am using electrical sync with my YS-DS Lightning. Flawless.

But would love to switch to optical. I need to light my pool like a studio for the underwater maternity portraiture I do. 

 

[Lewis88 13]

22 hours ago, stuartv said:

Also, the the facts that the S-Turtle has a TTL profile for the YS-D3, it is user updateable in its firmware, and I can change what flash unit profile it is set for using a phone app are very appealing as well.

I also am using a S-turtle, but can you tell me more about the mobile app? I've only seen ability to control it via usb and windows

[stuartv 34]

1 hour ago, Lewis88 said:

I also am using a S-turtle, but can you tell me more about the mobile app? I've only seen ability to control it via usb and windows

 

My mistake. I should have said PC app.

[stuartv 34]

On 1/20/2021 at 1:58 AM, Pavel Kolpakov said:

YS-D3 has an extremely low optical input sensitivity. To control such input, Sea&Sea produces their own optical YS Converter, powered by big size AAA batteries (2 pcs.). Those batteries have only 12 hours of continuous working time, because device eats a giant energy, like a xenon flash. I don't think that such power solution is adequate for  LED control systems at all. YS-D3 needs it for optical control.

    By the way, did you try YS-D3 with an electric sync cord?  Most of TTL Converters on the market also can control TTL strobes by electric sync cord, it can solve the problem.

 

Hi Pavel, I am back to considering to change my UWT over to using electrical sync.

If I have Sony a7rIV -> UWT TTL trigger -> electrical sync -> YS-D3 strobes:

Will it work for TTL?

What about HSS?

[ScottAudette 7]

2 hours ago, stuartv said:

 

Hi Pavel, I am back to considering to change my UWT over to using electrical sync.

If I have Sony a7rIV -> UWT TTL trigger -> electrical sync -> YS-D3 strobes:

Will it work for TTL?

What about HSS?

Did the S-Turtle not work?

[stuartv 34]

5 minutes ago, ScottAudette said:

Did the S-Turtle not work?

 

Sorry. I posted about that in my other thread. I don't know if it works. Bluewater sent me the wrong S-Turtle and now they've said they do not have the correct one, so I'm returning the one they sent and they are issuing a refund.

I don't know of anywhere to get one that offers a refund option for their return policy (BackScatter does not) and I am not willing to buy one to try it, only to find out it doesn't work for me, and be stuck with it.

[ScottAudette 7]

20 minutes ago, stuartv said:

 

Sorry. I posted about that in my other thread. I don't know if it works. Bluewater sent me the wrong S-Turtle and now they've said they do not have the correct one, so I'm returning the one they sent and they are issuing a refund.

I don't know of anywhere to get one that offers a refund option for their return policy (BackScatter does not) and I am not willing to buy one to try it, only to find out it doesn't work for me, and be stuck with it.

Ahhhhh...

The problem you'll find next though it electrical sync is manual only with the converters. No TTL. And in that case you might as well just put in an electrical bulkhead for a lot less money. 

[Pavel Kolpakov 78]

7 hours ago, ScottAudette said:

......
The problem you'll find next though it electrical sync is manual only with the converters. 

No, it is not manual. UWTechnics TTL-Converters have electric TTL for sync cord, the same as optical TTL for fiber cable.  Both connections work TTL.

Of course for sync cord usage, user has to install an electric bulkhead on the housing. This is popular option.

[Pavel Kolpakov 78]

11 hours ago, stuartv said:

Hi Pavel, I am back to considering to change my UWT over to using electrical sync.

If I have Sony a7rIV -> UWT TTL trigger -> electrical sync -> YS-D3 strobes:

Will it work for TTL?

What about HSS?

I guess YS-D3 must work TTL by wires normally. I don't see any problem for that.  Officially, we did not test YS-D3 TTL by the sync cord yet, but plan to do it.  If you can wait about a week, until we get YS-D3 for tests, we can supply you with the confirmed information.  Let's be in contact by e-mail.

 YS-D3 does not have HSS. Only Retra strobes have HSS functionality. If you want HSS, you need "Retra Pro" strobes and UWTechnics TTL-Converter marked "HSS", those new boards have HSS updated firmware and hardware (available since August-2020).

 

Edited January 22, 2021 by Pavel Kolpakov

[ChrisRoss 150]

Thanks Pavel, be good if you post the results here fir future reference.

[TimG 62]

36 minutes ago, Pavel Kolpakov said:

 

 YS-D3 does not have HSS. Only Retra strobes have HSS functionality. If you want HSS, you need "Retra Pro" strobes and UWTechnics TTL-Converter marked "HSS", those new boards have HSS updated firmware and hardware (available since August-2020).

 

Just to add to Pavel's comment, HSS also works on the Retra Prime as well as the Retra Pro Pavel refers to.

I'm using HSS on the Retra Prime (its a slightly less powerful - and slightly cheaper - version of the Pro). It's a tremendous option to be able to use. I really like it for being able to fill flash a backlight piece of reef or coral whilst shooting into the sun. Sync shutter speeds of 1/1000 no problem with a DSLR - in my case a Nikon D500.

[Pavel Kolpakov 78]

30 minutes ago, ChrisRoss said:

Thanks Pavel, be good if you post the results here fir future reference.

Hi Chris,

I will post the results here. I will receive YS-D3 after a week or so.

[stuartv 34]

The verdict is in.

There is no way to get the UWT trigger (for Sony FF mirrorless) to work with the YS-D3 strobes using fiber optic sync cables.

@bvanant was very kind and sent me 3 cables to try. (Thank you again, Bill!) I believe they are a 613 strand, a 1000 strand, and a big, fat solid core.

I tried them all with both strobes. Nothing.

Then I thought, "what if the batteries in my trigger are just old and weak?" So, I put new batteries in the trigger and repeated my tests. Both strobes. All 3 cables. None work.

I had the second LED port uncovered, so I could see it flashing. I looked at the strobe end of the cable and verified I could see a flash coming through there as well.

I held the strobe right over the LED port on the housing and then it would fire. Just not when the light is coming through a f/o cable.

I changed which LED port on the housing I had the cable hooked to. No difference.

I guess it's time to order an electronic sync cable and bulkhead...

[Kraken de Mabini 176]

For me the problem was the Sea&Sea YS series strobes themselves, as sometimes they flashed, other times not, if aimed downwards they would flash erratically; all told they were unreliable. Whenever I read about strobe problems in Wetpixel, they often were and are about Sea&Sea strobes.  So a few years ago I switched to Inon strobes, first to Z240 and D2000's, and now to Inon Z330 strobes, with no more problems as the Inons have worked perfectly.

[stuartv 34]

4 minutes ago, Kraken de Mabini said:

For me the problem was the Sea&Sea YS series strobes themselves, as sometimes they flashed, other times not, if aimed downwards they would flash erratically; all told they were unreliable. 

 

Was that always with fiber optic sync cables? If so, I wonder if it was down to the cable ends getting pulled to be not perfectly lined up with the sensor, when you would, for example, aim them downwards.

Like you, I have seen lots of posts about S&S poor reliability. That is why I bought Inon Z240 for my first strobes. I was hoping that the reliability will be better since they moved production back to Japan and now have come out with an even newer strobe (the YS-D3). But, now you have me second-guessing myself. I could just return these strobes and go back to using my Z240s. Hmmm...

Edited January 23, 2021 by stuartv

[TimG 62]

Stuart

Is it feasible that the cables are overly-long, or there is a bend in them between the strobe and bulkhead that may disrupt the light transmission sufficiently to lower the light volume?

Maybe just time to send them back and revert to the Z240s. (There'd be plenty of buyers for them too)

[stuartv 34]

Tim,

The solid core cable that Bill sent me is not very long, is very fat, and has no bends in it. Neither strobe worked with that, so I'm calling this research project "done". LOL

I have a buddy here that is actually going to buy these D3s. He's been happy with his D2s, so the D3s should be a good upgrade for him. I hope.

I think I AM going to punt and stick to my trusty Z240s for now.

[TimG 62]

Yeah, you have most certainly done due diligence with those D3s!

The Z240s are trusty for sure. Get some great pics with those 

Big plaudits to Bill for sending those cables. Really kind, Bill.