Experience with TRT S-Turtle TTL trigger?

[stuartv 34]

I'm debating changing out my UWT TTL trigger for a TRT S-Turtle TTL trigger. (Sony a7rIV in Nauticam housing)

 

This would be an effort to get my new Sea&Sea YS-D3 strobes to work with fiber optic sync cables.

 

I read 3 reviews of the Turtle (all linked from the TRT website). They were all positive. Nobody had anything bad to say about them. But, none of those reviews reflected any long-term experience. Only that the one they received worked for the week or however long they were conducting their tests in prep for writing a review. And, of course TRT is not going to link to any less-than-great reviews.

 

I asked someone at my usual go-to retailer for u/w photo stuff. He said this about the Turtle trigger:

 

"I have done a ton of testing with the Turtles and they are pretty awful. I have a pile of them on the shelf in my office. The guy never really finishes development of them, so they are poorly made, the TTL is pretty lousy and you have to keep recharging it all the time. I kept trying to get them improved, but the guy (one man operation) just wasn't interested, so I gave up. The UWT units are much better made and more reliable in my opinion."

 

That's a pretty bad review and completely at odds with the published reviews I've read. But, I have experience dealing with this person and have found their advice to be spot-on in the past.

 

Meanwhile, I emailed Backscatter about the Turtle, since they seem to be the US importer. Their response was this:

 

"It should work with the YS-D3 strobes.  I like to use the best fiber optic cables that I can get to insure good light transmission  I am unfamiliar with HowShot so I can’t guarantee that they will work well.  I believe that the continuous shooting mode is manual only.  The cable to charge it does not come with it unless they changed something."

What I get out of that is "should", "can't guarantee", "I believe", and "unless they changed something." Not a single definitive statement in any of it. And, according to Backscatter's website, they do not allow returns for a refund, period. I would have 10 days in which I could return the trigger for store credit or an exchange. That does me no good. 

 

I am left feeling like I don't want to try the Turtle because if it doesn't work with the YS-D3 strobes, I am out $450 or so. I don't have other gear I need to buy anytime soon, so store credit does not help me. And I'm not sure I really want to patronize a business that doesn't provide definitive answers to the questions that they are supposed to be expert on, AND who does not offer actual refunds if they sell me something that doesn't work for me. I mean, if you can't tell me for SURE that it works, at least give me the option to try it myself and return it for my money back if what you "think" turns out to be incorrect.

 

All that said, I'm still not definite in what I'm going to do. I would really like to hear from anyone who has long-term experience with a Turtle trigger and has any thoughts on the comments I copied into the beginning of this post.

 

Thanks!

[TimG 62]

Hi Stuart

Seriously frustrating for you. I've also seen your other posts about fibre optics and that you've ordered Howshot cables. Although I'm using various bits and bobs of Howshot, I've never used one of their fibre optic cables.

I too have heard mixed stories of the Turtles.

The UWT units are made by a regular here on Wetpixel, Pavel. He's an excellent guy and I can recommend his creations 100% - or at least the ones I have had from him for Nikon cameras over a  number of years. And his advice and support is first rate. You will see lots of posts from him and you could always PM him for advice. He is advice personified.

If you search around on WP on fibre optics for YS-Dx strobes, I think you will find quite a few posts about needing top quality fibre optic cables to get them to operate reliably. It seems to be one of their (unwelcome) features. I'm not sure Howshot scores against that - possibly not that highly (sorry!). It seems to be multi-fibre cables which work best. If it's any consolation, making fibre optics cables yourself is easy to do - but you just need to make sure you get the right fibre that will activate the YSs. As I say, well worth a good WP search.

I'd be tempted to try and get the necessary fibres first, try them out and then decide whether you need to upgrade/change the trigger. All I have read here about YSs leads me to think it's the cable which is the show stopper.

I hope this is of some help for you.

[stuartv 34]

Thanks, Tim.

 

Yes, I have had the UWT trigger for almost a year now and Pavel has been very helpful. But, UWT have basically said "we don't support the YS-D3 and are not going to." Thus why I am considering a Turtle trigger.

 

I have Howshot cables now, which are (supposedly) the same 613-fiber core cables that other "top" cables use.

 

However, just to be SURE, I have now ordered a pair of actual Sea&Sea cables. Maybe I'll get lucky and that will be all I need to do and I can continue to use my UWT trigger.

[TimG 62]

Fingers crossed, Stuart. Let us know how you get on eh?

[waterpixel 66]

I use both the Nauticam trigger for Sony & the S-TTL trigger made by Pavel (Disclaimer : i paid for it and am not affiliated with Turtle). With YSD2J strobes

I never had any issue with the S-TTL and its battery lasts longer than I've ever needed (I charge it every 2 day of diving just in case but never ran out so far). I can't complain on that front. The trigger has worked great for me.

As per fiber optics, I have built my own fiber optic cables to my Sea & Sea strobes. I 3D printed the Sea&Sea connector and plugged the optic fiber (3mm core/4mm diameter total) and this works flawlessly. Much more robust than the Nauticam ones

Edited January 13, 2021 by waterpixel

[stuartv 34]

22 minutes ago, waterpixel said:

I use both the Nauticam trigger for Sony & the S-TTL trigger made by Pavel (Disclaimer : i paid for it and am not affiliated with Turtle).

Pavel is UW Technics. The S-Turtle trigger it from Trt-Electronics.

 

So, which trigger are you talking about?

[waterpixel 66]

misread Tim's post on the guy's name

I have the S TTL, no issues at all - works great. Just email Balazs, he's on the forum as well and was responsive when i had a question

@Balage_diver

Edited January 13, 2021 by waterpixel

[stuartv 34]

I've been emailing with Balazs and he is indeed responsive and helpful.

 

One thing I think is interesting is that he told me to use Nauticam cables and NOT Sea&Sea cables.

 

I already ordered S&S ones, to try with the UWT trigger, so we'll see how that goes. I can return them if they don't work.

[Lewis88 13]

I am using an S-turtle with my A6100, and using $40 613 core cables from amazon. Fires my Ys-110's great. I don't have D3's to try. 

[stuartv 34]

I have gone into full-blown research mode. I have ordered new Sea&Sea cables and I ordered an S-Turtle trigger.

 

I ordered the trigger from Bluewater Photo Store after I found that they do offer a refund option if the trigger doesn't work out for me. Backscatter only offers store credit or exchange.

 

Once I have received everything, I will test the various combinations and report my results.

[bvanant 191]

I will be sending Stuart some home made cables from 613 and 1000 core fibers as well as some 3 mm fibers that have good transmission as well.

Bill

[TimG 62]

33 minutes ago, bvanant said:

I will be sending Stuart some home made cables from 613 and 1000 core fibers as well as some 3 mm fibers that have good transmission as well.

Bill

Nice one, Bill!

[stuartv 34]

Well... this is really not working out like I hoped.

I received the S-Turtle trigger yesterday, from Bluewater Photostore, and they sent the wrong one. Emailing today, they sent me a return label (so that's good), but they said they don't have the correct one, so they are issuing me a refund.

Backscatter sells the S-Turtle, but they don't give refunds for any reason (according to the Returns Policy on their website), so I'm not buying it from them.

Any other options? Either, a place to get the S-Turtle (with an option for a refund if it won't trigger the YS-D3s), or some other trigger I can try that will work with the YS-D3s and give me TTL?

[ScottAudette 7]

Was it an older version? I

[Barmaglot 251]

6 hours ago, stuartv said:

Any other options? Either, a place to get the S-Turtle (with an option for a refund if it won't trigger the YS-D3s), or some other trigger I can try that will work with the YS-D3s and give me TTL?

With the amount of trouble and expense you're going into to get the YS-D3s working, have you considered just selling them and getting something else? I have a pair of Retra Pros and they work flawlessly with the UWT trigger.

[ChrisRoss 150]

15 minutes ago, Barmaglot said:

With the amount of trouble and expense you're going into to get the YS-D3s working, have you considered just selling them and getting something else? I have a pair of Retra Pros and they work flawlessly with the UWT trigger.

I would think so - they seem quite troublesome!

[TimG 62]

6 hours ago, ChrisRoss said:

I would think so - they seem quite troublesome!

Agreed!

If the Retra Pro seems too pricey, check out the Retra Prime. I've been using those for the last few months. Slightly less powerful (not that it has been a problem at all) and slightly cheaper than the Pros. Has HSS (as I set out in another post), TTL etc. They are truly pieces of design art - the Jony Ive of the underwater business.  And Retra make snoots, various other macro light shapers.... all of which click beautifully into place. 

[stuartv 34]

16 hours ago, ScottAudette said:

Was it an older version? I

 

It was the Mobie version. AND I think it was older, as well. Balazs told me they started including a USB charging cable last July. The one I received did not have that. I suspect the LEDs are the older, less bright ones as well.

 

13 hours ago, Barmaglot said:

With the amount of trouble and expense you're going into to get the YS-D3s working, have you considered just selling them and getting something else? I have a pair of Retra Pros and they work flawlessly with the UWT trigger.

 

I bought a Turtle and some S&S cables. They are all going back for refunds. So, really only out the money for the strobes themselves, so far.

If I am really lucky, the f/o cables that @bvanant has so generously sent me will make the strobes work with the UWT trigger. In which case, I'll be done and gone out shooting.

If those f/o cables don't work, then I'll probably go ahead and ante up to changing over to electronic. Which will actually be less expensive than what the Turtle trigger cost.

 

6 hours ago, TimG said:

Agreed!

If the Retra Pro seems too pricey, check out the Retra Prime. I've been using those for the last few months. Slightly less powerful (not that it has been a problem at all) and slightly cheaper than the Pros. Has HSS (as I set out in another post), TTL etc. They are truly pieces of design art - the Jony Ive of the underwater business.  And Retra make snoots, various other macro light shapers.... all of which click beautifully into place. 

 

The thing is, I don't really NEED new strobes at all. My Z240s still work just fine. I only got the YS-D3s because my shop is a Sea&Sea dealer and I was able to get them at cost. If it weren't for that, I wouldn't have bought anything.  I have been really wanting to try out new strobes that would cycle a lot faster than my current setup. At dealer cost for the strobes, it was/is worth it to me to try them out.

I have a buddy that has been shooting a pair of old YS-250s. When we're shooting sharks he'll shoot on continuous drive with the strobes firing 4 or 5 frames per second or something like that. It's a really nice advantage considering that the best scenes with the sharks can come and go very quickly. And also considering that AF performance underwater is not what it is on land, so getting 2 or 3 frames of the desired composition increases the chances that one will have sharp focus on the eye of the shark (for example).

But, the cost for a set of Retras, at full price, is not in my budget right now. If I bought the Retras, I would get the Pros, and want to get the battery pack extender thingies. I would be in for over $2700 by the time I got the strobes, battery compartments, and a couple of necessary accessories. WAY more than double the money I will have in the S&S - even if I change over to electronic sync.

[Lewis88 13]

On 1/22/2021 at 11:33 AM, stuartv said:

If those f/o cables don't work, then I'll probably go ahead and ante up to changing over to electronic. Which will actually be less expensive than what the Turtle trigger cost.

Which wired TTL converter would you use? The UW Technics TTL converter supports wired, but if it doesn't support the D3's via fiber, will it support via wired?

 

Edited January 24, 2021 by Lewis88

[atus 20]

What's the sense of getting the turtle trigger if you don't care about TTL and you don't have a pair of Retra Pro and can benefit of the HSS ?

 

[TmxDiver 41]

40 minutes ago, atus said:

What's the sense of getting the turtle trigger if you don't care about TTL and you don't have a pair of Retra Pro and can benefit of the HSS ?

 

Save battery life?

- brett

[atus 20]

5 minutes ago, TmxDiver said:

Save battery life?

- brett

You don't need the turtle for that, there are quiet a lot of models to trigger the flash. 

[TmxDiver 41]

1 minute ago, atus said:

You don't need the turtle for that, there are quiet a lot of models to trigger the flash. 

Okay, you meant the Turtle trigger specifically. I hadn't read that into your post.

- brett

[ChrisRoss 150]

9 hours ago, Lewis88 said:

Which wired TTL converter would you use? The UW Technics TTL converter supports wired, but if it doesn't support the D3's via fiber, will it support via wired?

 

The issue with the D3s is that the slave sensor is not sensitive enough to pickup the LED signal from the trigger.  The Turtle came into the picture because it claimed it would be bright enough to trigger the D3s.  Electronic triggering for the D3s is being tested for the D3s as we speak.  Some of this is being discussed in a parallel thread about why the d3s don't work optically with the UWT trigger.

[ChrisRoss 150]

2 hours ago, atus said:

You don't need the turtle for that, there are quiet a lot of models to trigger the flash. 

In this case no - the whole issue is other triggers are not bright enough to trigger YS-D3.  There is a parallel thread discussing why the D3s are not being triggered by the UWT trigger.