WTB: Nikonos RS 13mm and Sea&Sea 12mm

[Martin.Broen 4]

Hi

I'm looking for a Nikonos RS 13mm (RS R-UW AF Fisheye Nikkor 13mm F/2.8) lens, and also for a Sea&Sea 12mm f/ 3.5 Sea&Sea Fisheye lens with Nikonos mount

Let me know if you have any to sell.

Thanks

Martin

[Isaac Szabo 90]

Keh has a copy of the 13mm available. And there are around a half dozen available on eBay, though they're all from out of the country (mainly Japan). The 12mm is harder to find. I have a copy but am not wanting to sell it at the moment.

[ianmarsh 37]

I will give some hard won advice: Only consider 13mm RS lenses that are optically perfect. There is one on eBay right now in Japan that is a pretty good price.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NIKON-NIKONOS-RS-R-UW-AF-Fisheye-Nikkor-13mm-F-2-8-Japan-as-is-100110A/154123513210?hash=item23e27a2d7a:g:NBoAAOSwTmBffHUH

 

Optical system

Lens
Glass is very clear only in a very small dust. (But of course it does not affect the photos.)
It has no tiny fungus.
There is very slight haze inside of the rear lens.(No impact when taking a photo)
There is very slight balsam separation inside on the edge of the rear lens.
Please purchase after checking the photo inside the lens. 

If you are concerned, please maintain it.

I bought one of these years ago, and the "balsam separation" turned out to be a crack in the rear lens element probably from being dropped. Fortunately for me, Rene Auman had the element available for sale, and it was a simple matter of changing it out myself, a 5 minute job.

It cost me 100 euro for the part, but it was worth many times that to me.

If you are requesting pictures of the rear elements, have the vendor remove the rear bayonet filter. If the damage is on the filter, they are easily available, shared in common with the 16mm Nikon fisheye.

Nowadays, there are essentially NO repair parts available, so you will be stuck with what you buy:(

 

Ian

Edited January 26, 2021 by ianmarsh
syntax

[Martin.Broen 4]

On 1/24/2021 at 8:57 PM, Isaac Szabo said:

Keh has a copy of the 13mm available. And there are around a half dozen available on eBay, though they're all from out of the country (mainly Japan). The 12mm is harder to find. I have a copy but am not wanting to sell it at the moment.

Thanks, for the info. Can I ask how you Like the Sea&Sea 12mm?? How sharps is it on the corners?

and how wide is it compare with other lenses? Asking as I tried the Nikonos 15mm and feels more like a 17-18mm

And let me know if you ever change your mind and want to sell it :)

Thanks again

Martin

[Martin.Broen 4]

On 1/26/2021 at 12:29 PM, ianmarsh said:

I will give some hard won advice: Only consider 13mm RS lenses that are optically perfect. There is one on eBay right now in Japan that is a pretty good price.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NIKON-NIKONOS-RS-R-UW-AF-Fisheye-Nikkor-13mm-F-2-8-Japan-as-is-100110A/154123513210?hash=item23e27a2d7a:g:NBoAAOSwTmBffHUH

 

Optical system

Lens
Glass is very clear only in a very small dust. (But of course it does not affect the photos.)
It has no tiny fungus.
There is very slight haze inside of the rear lens.(No impact when taking a photo)
There is very slight balsam separation inside on the edge of the rear lens.
Please purchase after checking the photo inside the lens. 

If you are concerned, please maintain it.

I bought one of these years ago, and the "balsam separation" turned out to be a crack in the rear lens element probably from being dropped. Fortunately for me, Rene Auman had the element available for sale, and it was a simple matter of changing it out myself, a 5 minute job.

It cost me 100 euro for the part, but it was worth many times that to me.

If you are requesting pictures of the rear elements, have the vendor remove the rear bayonet filter. If the damage is on the filter, they are easily available, shared in common with the 16mm Nikon fisheye.

Nowadays, there are essentially NO repair parts available, so you will be stuck with what you buy:(

 

Ian

Thanks Ian! good advice!

saw that one in e-Bay, but that one will not qualify for the "optically perfect"

[Martin.Broen 4]

On 1/24/2021 at 8:57 PM, Isaac Szabo said:

Keh has a copy of the 13mm available. And there are around a half dozen available on eBay, though they're all from out of the country (mainly Japan). The 12mm is harder to find. I have a copy but am not wanting to sell it at the moment.

Just got the KEH one. Thanks for the heads up!!!

Martin

 

[Isaac Szabo 90]

I'm glad you got one. That's a great piece of glass from what I hear. If I were using a Nikon DSLR, that's probably what I would be using too. 

As for the Sea&Sea 12mm, I haven't fully tested it yet (just a few test shots in a tub at home), so I'll have to get back to you on that. But I can say that with a FOV of 167°, it is much wider than the Nikonos 15mm, which has a FOV of only 94° and as you noticed is really the equivalent of a 20mm. The Nikon R-UW 13mm that you just ordered has a FOV of 170° (essentially the same as the Sea&Sea 12mm).

Edited January 29, 2021 by Isaac Szabo

[Martin.Broen 4]

9 minutes ago, Isaac Szabo said:

I'm glad you got one. That's a great piece of glass from what I hear. If I were using a Nikon DSLR, that's probably what I would be using too. 

As for the Sea&Sea 12mm, I haven't fully tested it yet (just a few test shots in a tub at home), so I'll have to get back to you on that. But I can say that with a FOV of 167°, it is much wider than the Nikonos 15mm, which has a FOV of only 94° and as you noticed is really the equivalent of a 20mm. The Nikon R-UW that you just ordered has a FOV of 170° (essentially the same as the Sea&Sea 12mm).

Thanks for that data! is super useful. where you got those specs?? is there any data on the corner sharpness between those 2 lenses?

So you got the Sea&sea recently, or you had it from the past and never tried it on a new system? Can I assume you got the Nauticam adapter for the Sony mirrorless?

Thanks again!

[Isaac Szabo 90]

No problem! Wikipedia has a few tables with useful information on the Nikonos/RS lenses: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikonos#Lenses. 

I don't know of any data on the corner sharpness of those 2 lenses, but I know there are numerous reports of the RS 13mm having very good sharpness. On the other hand, I haven't found much information on the performance of the Sea&Sea 12mm. 

I picked up the Sea&Sea 12mm around a year ago but hadn't gotten around to putting together a full frame setup to utilize it until now. As for the adapter, I actually made my own with my 3D printer.

Edited January 29, 2021 by Isaac Szabo

[Tom_Kline 137]

Pawel Achtel has been posting MTF analyses of the RS 13mm on FB.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/260603000686027/user/1048959671

 

 

Edited January 29, 2021 by Tom_Kline

[Martin.Broen 4]

8 hours ago, Isaac Szabo said:

No problem! Wikipedia has a few tables with useful information on the Nikonos/RS lenses: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikonos#Lenses. 

I don't know of any data on the corner sharpness of those 2 lenses, but I know there are numerous reports of the RS 13mm having very good sharpness. On the other hand, I haven't found much information on the performance of the Sea&Sea 12mm. 

I picked up the Sea&Sea 12mm around a year ago but hadn't gotten around to putting together a full frame setup to utilize it until now. As for the adapter, I actually made my own with my 3D printer.

Curious on which 3D printer you use and if you do any treatment to the surface to guarantee is watertight over time?

I personally use a Markforged with the Onyx material (micro carbon fiber filled nylon) for my underwater adaptations, as while nylon is not ideal for underwater the added carbon makes it very resistant, but I'm not doing parts that compromise the seal of the camera either

[Lewis88 12]

7 hours ago, Martin.Broen said:

Curious on which 3D printer you use and if you do any treatment to the surface to guarantee is watertight over time?

I personally use a Markforged with the Onyx material (micro carbon fiber filled nylon) for my underwater adaptations, as while nylon is not ideal for underwater the added carbon makes it very resistant, but I'm not doing parts that compromise the seal of the camera either

I am interested in this as well. I print parts for mounts, lighting parts, clips, etc. but I'm not comfortable printing anything pressure bearing from any of my printers at home or work (Ender 3, Form 3, Makerbot Method X). I just worry about them catastrophically failing and me losing my rig. 

I have access to a beefy mill, but lack the milling expertise to make my own aluminum adapters.

Edited January 29, 2021 by Lewis88

[Isaac Szabo 90]

7 hours ago, Martin.Broen said:

Curious on which 3D printer you use and if you do any treatment to the surface to guarantee is watertight over time?

I personally use a Markforged with the Onyx material (micro carbon fiber filled nylon) for my underwater adaptations, as while nylon is not ideal for underwater the added carbon makes it very resistant, but I'm not doing parts that compromise the seal of the camera either

I am using a Prusa i3 MK3 and have printed watertight parts out of ABS, PETG, and PC. As I'm sure you know, FDM prints are not watertight using stock settings. However, they can be made watertight by adjusting the slicer settings so that you end up with a completely solid print. The three main things I do to accomplish that are: print at a small layer height (0.10mm), increase the number of perimeters until there is no infill, and over-extrude enough to fill in the tiny gaps that are normally present between lines/layers of deposited filament (i.e. increase the extrusion multiplier by around 10-20%).

Another issue is the o-ring grooves, which will not be perfectly smooth due to the layer lines. So for those I print them slightly over-sized and then coat them in a layer of epoxy.

I have no experience using a composite filament like carbon fiber filled nylon and don't know whether or not the tiny fibers inside the plastic would make it more difficult to achieve watertight parts.

Back when I was trying to figure out how to do this, I had considered printing the parts normally and then coating the outer surface in a waterproof layer of epoxy. However, as you allude to, one of my concerns was that the surface could get worn/scratched over time and develop leaks. So I settled on making the whole structure watertight, not just the surface.

And as a disclaimer, I should note that so far I have only tested these parts at home with a vacuum pump and in a tub of water. All indications are that they are sufficient for my needs, but I haven't yet used them in the field. Also, I'm only doing shallow water stream snorkeling, and nearly all of my photography is done in water less than 6ft deep. Obviously, parts designed for diving depths would probably need to be designed more robustly and would definitely need to go through more extreme pressure testing.

[Isaac Szabo 90]

27 minutes ago, Lewis88 said:

I am interested in this as well. I print parts for mounts, lighting parts, clips, etc. but I'm not comfortable printing anything pressure bearing from any of my printers at home or work (Ender 3, Form 3, Makerbot Method X). I just worry about them catastrophically failing and me losing my rig. 

I have access to a beefy mill, but lack the milling expertise to make my own aluminum adapters.

As mentioned in my previous reply, I’m only doing shallow stream snorkeling (less than 6ft), so I’m not dealing with extreme pressure. I have tested my parts to a pressure equivalent to around 25ft using a vacuum pump, so I feel that I have a pretty good safety margin for my needs. If you were to try to make 3D printed pressure bearing parts for diving depths, obviously you would have to do the appropriate tests with a vacuum pump/chamber or by bringing the parts down to diving depths without anything valuable inside.

[Lewis88 12]

Thanks Issac, 

The shallow water was the part I missed.

[Isaac Szabo 90]

1 hour ago, Lewis88 said:

Thanks Issac, 

The shallow water was the part I missed.

No worries, Lewis! You didn't didn't miss anything. I hadn't posted that information until after your post.

[Martin.Broen 4]

6 hours ago, Isaac Szabo said:

I am using a Prusa i3 MK3 and have printed watertight parts out of ABS, PETG, and PC. As I'm sure you know, FDM prints are not watertight using stock settings. However, they can be made watertight by adjusting the slicer settings so that you end up with a completely solid print. The three main things I do to accomplish that are: print at a small layer height (0.10mm), increase the number of perimeters until there is no infill, and over-extrude enough to fill in the tiny gaps that are normally present between lines/layers of deposited filament (i.e. increase the extrusion multiplier by around 10-20%).

Another issue is the o-ring grooves, which will not be perfectly smooth due to the layer lines. So for those I print them slightly over-sized and then coat them in a layer of epoxy.

I have no experience using a composite filament like carbon fiber filled nylon and don't know whether or not the tiny fibers inside the plastic would make it more difficult to achieve watertight parts.

Back when I was trying to figure out how to do this, I had considered printing the parts normally and then coating the outer surface in a waterproof layer of epoxy. However, as you allude to, one of my concerns was that the surface could get worn/scratched over time and develop leaks. So I settled on making the whole structure watertight, not just the surface.

And as a disclaimer, I should note that so far I have only tested these parts at home with a vacuum pump and in a tub of water. All indications are that they are sufficient for my needs, but I haven't yet used them in the field. Also, I'm only doing shallow water stream snorkeling, and nearly all of my photography is done in water less than 6ft deep. Obviously, parts designed for diving depths would probably need to be designed more robustly and would definitely need to go through more extreme pressure testing.

That's great, and while I was already managing the layer density and border thinness I havn't tried the epoxy on the "O" ring groves. I like that one!

At work I do have x12 3D Printers (5 different types, mostly FDM) and I really love the Markforge for these type of camera/lights accessories. the resolution is great and the addition of the pre-chopped carbon or added continuous filament of carbon fiber or Kevlar is great for structural parts

Thanks again for the info

[Isaac Szabo 90]

No problem!

[Martin.Broen 4]

Hi all

I'm still looking for a copy of the Sea&Sea 12mm f/ 3.5 Sea&Sea Fisheye lens for Nikonos

Let me know if you have one to sell. Or even if you are in the US and I can borrow it for a test trip

Thanks!

Martin