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Knightpics

Do you shoot with Sony a7 or A9 series and if so what wide angle lenses do you use

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I’m selling all my canon kit and moving to Sony but don’t know what wide angle lens I would use.

someone said don’t sell my canon 8-15 fish eye and use it with the mc11 adapter.

what do people think 

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I use the 16-35mm f4 lens from Sony with my A7III, and i'm very happy with it!

Greetings from Switzerland,

Tino

 

2020-11-26_17h-24m-00s.jpg

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Depends on your use-case and whether you want to shoot fisheye or rectilinear. I shoot with the 16-35gm on a7RII and a7SIII (GM because I also use it topside, I used to use the f4 with great results).

Mexico_WhaleSharkMantas_003.jpg

Mexico_WhaleSharksMantas2_003.jpg

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Rectilinear wides need big domes to get the best out of them.  FIsheye lenses are fine in smaller domes.  The general recommendation for good performance of a 16-35 lens is a 230mm dome shooting at f11-16 or adding the S&S correction lens to improve corners further and shoot at wider apertures.  That is a big piece of glass for travel.   

A little bit hard to advise without knowing your preferred subject.  CFWA on tropical reefs a fisheye is king.  Shooting big animals in the blue is different - corners are not so important and for less approachable animals the extra reach of lenses like the 16-35 could be quite useful.  Wrecks again rectilinear is generally the recommended choice if you don't want the straight lines within the wreck distorted in the fisheye.  You can also add a 1.4x to the 8-15 to get some reach and you could use the whole frame zooming from 10-11mm out to 15mm.  Equivalent to a 15 - 21mm fisheye lens.

Another option is wet lenses like the WWL and WACP - they give you the coverage of the 11-24 without the corner problems and can be used at wider apertures.  Depending on the exact model chosen they do introduce barrel distortion.  the Sony 28-60 has just appeared on the port chart for the WWL-1B and has been discussed on the forum just recently.  You can refer to the port charts for these wet lenses from Nauticam for lens combinations.

Also be useful to know what domes you have from your Canon kit, you can save $$$ by re-using them of course, if you had full frame Canon the domes should translate across assuming you had the optimised choice on your canon rig.  I would think the Sony equivalent of whatever Canon lenses you had would work just fine, assuming you were happy enough with them on the Canon rig.

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also moved to Gear and Equipment you may get some more responses there.

 

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I shoot with a Sony A7r4. I use Canon 8-15 with the mc11 adapter.  It´s working great.

I also wanted a rectilinear option, and was looking in to the 16-35mm, but the need of a really big dome with that lens, kept me off.

Instead I ended up with the Nauticam WWL-1 in front of the Sony 28mm f2. It's a very nice option. Small size, compared to the big dome, and very sharp images.

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I think the option with the WWL-1 and the 28mm lens is also not bad, a friend use this setup.

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Thank you everybody for this wonderful information. Considering I don't go underwater as much any more cost and size of what I'm travelling with is important to me. I generally only like to shoot big stuff like sharks, whales, seals and crocs. It sounds like the 28mm and the WWL-1 might be the best option for me based on peoples experience. I was wondering if I should hold on to my canon fish eye and use it with the mc-11 adapter but it seems to be a mixed bag on if it focuses well. Some say it does and some say it doesn't 

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2 hours ago, Knightpics said:

Thank you everybody for this wonderful information. Considering I don't go underwater as much any more cost and size of what I'm travelling with is important to me. I generally only like to shoot big stuff like sharks, whales, seals and crocs. It sounds like the 28mm and the WWL-1 might be the best option for me based on peoples experience. I was wondering if I should hold on to my canon fish eye and use it with the mc-11 adapter but it seems to be a mixed bag on if it focuses well. Some say it does and some say it doesn't 

I think you need to do some more reading research. With a 28mm+WWL-1 you'll be way too wide for sharks. The 16-35 recommended by @tdphoto is great for them (same for crocs i would assume).

The WWL-1 is a great CFWA lense. You may consider the new 28-60 by sony with the WWL-1 but no one has ever tried it yet as the port by Nauticam hsan't been released yet.

 

There is unfortunately not a universal setup for all scenarios. In addition, if you want to go for cost & size, the underwater housing of the A7 + strobes + ports extension + dome (or WWL-1) means that you are not going to travel light (or cheap)!


If you want a Sony system, the RX system is very compact and compatible with the WWL-1which give zoom through options and affordability.

Good luck

PS : literally 3 threads below

 

 

(unrelated but given the multiple questions we had on A7 systems in the recent weeks, a mega thread could be good!)

Edited by waterpixel
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Agree the 28mm with WWL is fairly wide, not as wide as the fisheye of course but getting close. 

Firstly presumably you've been using the 8-15 with your Canon kit - the usage with the Sony will be the same with same angles of view so you can still do that if you get the metabones and Sony port adapters assuming you had a full frame Canon kit and you could do the same with any other Canon lenses and ports you had. 

Second, fisheye and rectilinear aren't completely interchangable and to complicate matters the WWL is between the fisheye and a rectilinear as it has some barrel distortion.  It is roughly equivalent to a 10mm lens in rectilinear This table shows angles of view of various options:

image.png.165bc629eecefdcc542b13517a360533.png

Fisheyes have a lot more field of view in the diagonal so comparing horizontal field is a good way to compare the two for fitting a large animal in frame.  The WWL is calculated as a rectilinear which is not strictly correct but gives an approximation.  Considering only the full frame fisheye field of view you get 144° across the frame with the 15mm fisheye.  If you add a 1.4x you get 144 - 102° zoom range for your horizontal field.  If you had the 28-60 plus WWL you can zoom from 122 - 80° field.  A 16-35mm gives 104 - 54° field. 

So the WWL with 28-60 doesn't get the reach of the 16-35, but zooms to about equivalent to just under half way through the zoom range.  This should give you some idea of the reach of the various options.

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Sony mirrorless has about as deep a selection of wide lenses as you could possibly want at a verity of price points. Most of these lenses are supported with gears, dome options and extension choices. For this post I will stick to auto focus lenses since they are the most chosen option.

The Sony system is ever evolving so many new choices have arrived in the past year or so.

I will start by saying that many of these lenses have been reviewed by me and others in the pages of Underwater Photography magazine UWPMAG.com this magazine is a free PDF download and you can search back issues for many of the lenses I will list. Others will be reviewed soon in coming issues.

I will start with Water Contact Optics. Nauticam has three that are all excellent the WWL-1 & 1B, same glass, WACP and WACP-2. Again three different price points. I suggest that you look for Alex Mustard's articles on water contact lenses in uwpmag.com for a full explanation of the strengths and weaknesses of these water contact optics. What is new and most exciting in this area is the recent release of the Sony FE 28-60mm zoom lens this is the only lens on the market that allows use of the excellent least expensive WWL-1/1B water contact optic. With this lens and optic combination you get a very wide range of 130 to 68 degrees of coverage. Thea lens also works with WACP which eliminates the port (and port glass) and mounts direct to Nauticam and other housings with a mount adapter.

Zoom lenses used behind ports that can range in size from 170mm to 230mm with the better corner sharpness coming with the larger domes.

These are some of the zooms supported with gears, port information and port extensions on the Nauticam port charts.

Sony FE 12-24mm F/2.8

Sony FE 12-24mm F/4

Sigma 14-28mm F/2.8

Sony 16-35mm F/4 & F/2.8

Tamron 17-28mm F/2.8 (budget)

Sony 24-70 F/2.8 & F/4, I will assume 24mm is about as narrow as one would want to go. 

I am sure you can find others but these are the ones supported with a zoom gear.

Fixed focal length lenses.

Rokinon/Samyang 14mm F/2.8 (excellent budget lens, now for EOS R as well)

Zeiss Batis 18mm F/2.8

Rokinon 18mm F/2.8 (budget, also quite good)

Sony FE 20mm F/1.8

Tamron 20mm F/2.8 macro 1:2

Tamron 24mm macro 1:2

Rokinon/Samyang 24mm F/2.8 FE 

Again you can find many more if you are willing to test for proper port and extension combo.

What Sony mirrorless lacks as pointed out on this site repeatedly is a native fisheye from Sony or any after market manufactures. 

I have used the Canon 8-15mm circular fisheye for over four years now on sony cameras with both Metabones and Sigma adapters. I have had no issues with auto focus and image quality is as good as you would expect with a DSLR lens. I expect someone will step-up this year with a native fisheye but it is not a large concern for me. Canon and Sigma non zoom fisheyes can also be used with the adapters. 

 

 

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Thank you for your detailed information. I don't get the chance to do much underwater work any more due to lack of money and covid. I am selling all my canon set up as it will soon be outdated and i can't bear having things of reasonable value sat in my cupboard collecting dust. I have decided to sell all my kit and just buy what will make me money and get used regularly. I am going to invest in the new Sony A1 but i couldn't decide if i should hold on to my 8-15 fish eye or not. Size and weight and price of my UW is very important to me. I would like to have a 1 lens set up as small and cost effective as possible. I only enjoy shooting big animals like sharks wales and crocs and not too worried about anything else. It sounds like the Sony 28mm with the WWL1 might be my best in between option. Im considering buying an ikelite housing for my A1 as it will be cheaper which is good considering i won't use it all that much and don't make much money from my underwater images. Part of me almost thinks i should go back to an RX100 set up due to the small size to travel with and it being a much cheaper option however if i have an A1 i should probably put it to good use. I was wondering if i should buy the 12-24 as it gives me a bit of zoom option but it seems like the 28mm with the WWL1 would be a good in the middle option between a fish eye and a rectilinear wide angle. Quite cost effective, sharp and small set up to travel with 

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The only way the WWL-1 works on full frame is with the new SonyFE  28-60mm "kit" lens that was first introduced with the Sony A7C and will be available on its own soon. This to me is a better option than 12-24 because it is wider at 130 degrees. Just to be clear WWL-1 will not work with the older Sony FE 28-70mm which was also a kit lens.

Edited by Phil Rudin

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Phil, I value your wealth of valuable information. However, I will note that the WWL-1 does indeed work for full frame with the Sony 28mm f/2. I have that setup myself and know a number of people who also use it.

Edited by Isaac Szabo

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You are absolutely correct IsaacI, I recently did a review on that very combination, my bad. My intension was to point out that the 28-60 is the only zoom lens that works with the WWL-1 for full frame. I revised the above and thanks for pointing out the error.

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Ah, that makes sense. The WWL-1 with the new 28-60mm is an intriguing option. I look forward to your review. 

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4 hours ago, Knightpics said:

Thank you for your detailed information. I don't get the chance to do much underwater work any more due to lack of money and covid. I am selling all my canon set up as it will soon be outdated and i can't bear having things of reasonable value sat in my cupboard collecting dust. I have decided to sell all my kit and just buy what will make me money and get used regularly. I am going to invest in the new Sony A1 but i couldn't decide if i should hold on to my 8-15 fish eye or not. Size and weight and price of my UW is very important to me. I would like to have a 1 lens set up as small and cost effective as possible. I only enjoy shooting big animals like sharks wales and crocs and not too worried about anything else. It sounds like the Sony 28mm with the WWL1 might be my best in between option. Im considering buying an ikelite housing for my A1 as it will be cheaper which is good considering i won't use it all that much and don't make much money from my underwater images. Part of me almost thinks i should go back to an RX100 set up due to the small size to travel with and it being a much cheaper option however if i have an A1 i should probably put it to good use. I was wondering if i should buy the 12-24 as it gives me a bit of zoom option but it seems like the 28mm with the WWL1 would be a good in the middle option between a fish eye and a rectilinear wide angle. Quite cost effective, sharp and small set up to travel with 

Ikelite housings certainly work however are built to a price and there are compromises that are made to do this. 

The first is around compactness - if you look at the A7RIV housing you'll see lots of space around the camera, the housing is a lot bigger than it could be.   The recommended domes for the fisheye lens are the 8" dome which is not that compact and no mini dome is offered. 

Secondly If you look at the port chart for macro lenses to see what if offered in the way of flat ports - there is only one DL flat port listed the 75301 which fits the 130mm long 90mm macro.  If you put the 28mm f2 or 28-60 behind that port, the 28-60 is only 45mm long so you will have 85mm gap to the port glass.  This means you will have to zoom in to avoid vignetting and lose some of the wide end available with the WWL.   For water contact optics it is important to have a flat port that fits well.

Strobes are electric sync only there is no provision for optical triggering.

I always recommend looking at UW cameras from a total system perspective, rather than starting with a camera you use on land.  I understand from what you've said you are wanting to use the A1 on land and the secondary use is taking it underwater, however I still don't get spending $6500 on a camera body and buying the cheapest underwater housing for it.  You could potentially save some money, by keeping some of the ports from your old Canon system and buying a housing from the same manufacturer -the housing would be more but you wouldn't be buying the ports.

 

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12 hours ago, Phil Rudin said:

The only way the WWL-1 works on full frame is with the new SonyFE  28-60mm "kit" lens that was first introduced with the Sony A7C and will be available on its own soon. This to me is a better option than 12-24 because it is wider at 130 degrees. Just to be clear WWL-1 will not work with the older Sony FE 28-70mm which was also a kit lens.

Edited by Knightpics

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I think selling the Canon because you don't have enough opportunity for diving because of financial reasons and at the same time buying a Sony A1 for 6500$ makes very little financial sense. I think you should really evaluate why you are upgrading, if you can actually afford it and if it makes sense in terms of how much you're going to be using it. I agree with @ChrisRoss that paying that much money for a camera body and then buying an Ikelite housing to save money is saving money in the wrong place. You'd be much better off buying one of the bodies in the 3-4k price range and spending the money saved on a nicer housing. 

If you want the A1 for topside it might make sense to get a compact or mft system just for underwater, but you'd have to do the maths on that.

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8 hours ago, ChrisRoss said:

Ikelite housings certainly work however are built to a price and there are compromises that are made to do this. 

The first is around compactness - if you look at the A7RIV housing you'll see lots of space around the camera, the housing is a lot bigger than it could be.   The recommended domes for the fisheye lens are the 8" dome which is not that compact and no mini dome is offered. 

Secondly If you look at the port chart for macro lenses to see what if offered in the way of flat ports - there is only one DL flat port listed the 75301 which fits the 130mm long 90mm macro.  If you put the 28mm f2 or 28-60 behind that port, the 28-60 is only 45mm long so you will have 85mm gap to the port glass.  This means you will have to zoom in to avoid vignetting and lose some of the wide end available with the WWL.   For water contact optics it is important to have a flat port that fits well.

Strobes are electric sync only there is no provision for optical triggering.

I always recommend looking at UW cameras from a total system perspective, rather than starting with a camera you use on land.  I understand from what you've said you are wanting to use the A1 on land and the secondary use is taking it underwater, however I still don't get spending $6500 on a camera body and buying the cheapest underwater housing for it.  You could potentially save some money, by keeping some of the ports from your old Canon system and buying a housing from the same manufacturer -the housing would be more but you wouldn't be buying the ports.

 

 

8 hours ago, ChrisRoss said:

Ikelite housings certainly work however are built to a price and there are compromises that are made to do this. 

The first is around compactness - if you look at the A7RIV housing you'll see lots of space around the camera, the housing is a lot bigger than it could be.   The recommended domes for the fisheye lens are the 8" dome which is not that compact and no mini dome is offered. 

Secondly If you look at the port chart for macro lenses to see what if offered in the way of flat ports - there is only one DL flat port listed the 75301 which fits the 130mm long 90mm macro.  If you put the 28mm f2 or 28-60 behind that port, the 28-60 is only 45mm long so you will have 85mm gap to the port glass.  This means you will have to zoom in to avoid vignetting and lose some of the wide end available with the WWL.   For water contact optics it is important to have a flat port that fits well.

Strobes are electric sync only there is no provision for optical triggering.

I always recommend looking at UW cameras from a total system perspective, rather than starting with a camera you use on land.  I understand from what you've said you are wanting to use the A1 on land and the secondary use is taking it underwater, however I still don't get spending $6500 on a camera body and buying the cheapest underwater housing for it.  You could potentially save some money, by keeping some of the ports from your old Canon system and buying a housing from the same manufacturer -the housing would be more but you wouldn't be buying the ports.

 

I totally agree with you on this and thank you for your information 

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I am shooting an a7rIV. I have been shooting it with the Sony 28mm f/2 and WWL-1. I just got a Sony 28-60. I'm just waiting for the port and zoom gear for that and then I'll be shooting that with the WWL-1.

I completely disagree with a post above that says the WWL-1 with a 28mm is too wide for shooting sharks. That is actually my main thing (shooting sharks) and the 130 degree FOV you get with the WWL-1 is awesome for that. Of course, that is based on the sharks that I typically shoot, which I am able to get quite close to. If you're shooting sharks somewhere where you can't get very close to them, then you might want a narrower FOV.

But, that is where the new Sony 28-60 lens comes in. The WWL-1 supports full zoom-through with that lens. Meaning, you can have the WWL-1 mounted and zoom your lens from 28-60 or anywhere in between and the WWL-1 still works and allows you to focus through it. So, if a shark IS too far away for a 130 degree FOV, you can crank up the zoom to roughly a 65 degree FOV. That ought to be tight enough for most sharks.

Anyway, from what you (the OP) said, it sounds like a 28-60 lens and the WWL-1 would be your best option. It's the most compact setup I know of for a Sony full-frame, for shooting WA. And you can add a Nauticam CMC-1 or CMC-2 or Inon UCL-65 or UCL-90 to your kit and also be able to shoot macro using the same lens and port. Those are also pretty compact wet lenses.

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On 1/31/2021 at 12:55 AM, ChrisRoss said:

Ikelite housings certainly work however are built to a price and there are compromises that are made to do this. 

The first is around compactness - if you look at the A7RIV housing you'll see lots of space around the camera, the housing is a lot bigger than it could be.   The recommended domes for the fisheye lens are the 8" dome which is not that compact and no mini dome is offered. 

Secondly If you look at the port chart for macro lenses to see what if offered in the way of flat ports - there is only one DL flat port listed the 75301 which fits the 130mm long 90mm macro.  If you put the 28mm f2 or 28-60 behind that port, the 28-60 is only 45mm long so you will have 85mm gap to the port glass.  This means you will have to zoom in to avoid vignetting and lose some of the wide end available with the WWL.   For water contact optics it is important to have a flat port that fits well.

Strobes are electric sync only there is no provision for optical triggering.

I always recommend looking at UW cameras from a total system perspective, rather than starting with a camera you use on land.  I understand from what you've said you are wanting to use the A1 on land and the secondary use is taking it underwater, however I still don't get spending $6500 on a camera body and buying the cheapest underwater housing for it.  You could potentially save some money, by keeping some of the ports from your old Canon system and buying a housing from the same manufacturer -the housing would be more but you wouldn't be buying the ports.

 

 

On 1/31/2021 at 12:55 AM, ChrisRoss said:

Ikelite housings certainly work however are built to a price and there are compromises that are made to do this. 

The first is around compactness - if you look at the A7RIV housing you'll see lots of space around the camera, the housing is a lot bigger than it could be.   The recommended domes for the fisheye lens are the 8" dome which is not that compact and no mini dome is offered. 

Secondly If you look at the port chart for macro lenses to see what if offered in the way of flat ports - there is only one DL flat port listed the 75301 which fits the 130mm long 90mm macro.  If you put the 28mm f2 or 28-60 behind that port, the 28-60 is only 45mm long so you will have 85mm gap to the port glass.  This means you will have to zoom in to avoid vignetting and lose some of the wide end available with the WWL.   For water contact optics it is important to have a flat port that fits well.

Strobes are electric sync only there is no provision for optical triggering.

I always recommend looking at UW cameras from a total system perspective, rather than starting with a camera you use on land.  I understand from what you've said you are wanting to use the A1 on land and the secondary use is taking it underwater, however I still don't get spending $6500 on a camera body and buying the cheapest underwater housing for it.  You could potentially save some money, by keeping some of the ports from your old Canon system and buying a housing from the same manufacturer -the housing would be more but you wouldn't be buying the ports.

 

I totally agree with you on this and thank you for your information 

 

3 minutes ago, stuartv said:

I am shooting an a7rIV. I have been shooting it with the Sony 28mm f/2 and WWL-1. I just got a Sony 28-60. I'm just waiting for the port and zoom gear for that and then I'll be shooting that with the WWL-1.

I completely disagree with a post above that says the WWL-1 with a 28mm is too wide for shooting sharks. That is actually my main thing (shooting sharks) and the 130 degree FOV you get with the WWL-1 is awesome for that. Of course, that is based on the sharks that I typically shoot, which I am able to get quite close to. If you're shooting sharks somewhere where you can't get very close to them, then you might want a narrower FOV.

But, that is where the new Sony 28-60 lens comes in. The WWL-1 supports full zoom-through with that lens. Meaning, you can have the WWL-1 mounted and zoom your lens from 28-60 or anywhere in between and the WWL-1 still works and allows you to focus through it. So, if a shark IS too far away for a 130 degree FOV, you can crank up the zoom to roughly a 65 degree FOV. That ought to be tight enough for most sharks.

Anyway, from what you (the OP) said, it sounds like a 28-60 lens and the WWL-1 would be your best option. It's the most compact setup I know of for a Sony full-frame, for shooting WA. And you can add a Nauticam CMC-1 or CMC-2 or Inon UCL-65 or UCL-90 to your kit and also be able to shoot macro using the same lens and port. Those are also pretty compact wet lenses.

thank you. I agree with you. I also had a chat with Alex tattersall and we agreed that this set up will best suit me due to cost and travelling size 

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On 1/30/2021 at 3:54 PM, Phil Rudin said:

The only way the WWL-1 works on full frame is with the new SonyFE  28-60mm "kit" lens that was first introduced with the Sony A7C and will be available on its own soon. This to me is a better option than 12-24 because it is wider at 130 degrees. Just to be clear WWL-1 will not work with the older Sony FE 28-70mm which was also a kit lens.

The WWL-1 also works with the Sony 28mm prime. But in terms of quality I will use the Canon 8-15mm instead (Fixed at 15mm)

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