Oly C-8080 Advice

[jamesdavies83 0]

Hi

 

Not posted here before, but recently been reading this forum and getting quite interested in UW photography - so want to get myself a camera + housing set up.

 

I already have a film SLR that i've used for some motorsport photography, so i'm looking to replace this with a set up that I can use for sports as well as UW. Reading this and other forums I see the Olympus C-5060/PT-020 is an excellent UW set up, but i'm not sure how suitable it is for sports photography, so I started looking at the C-8080/PT-023 - Does anyone have any experience with this camera and housing, Ive heard different reviews of it - some excellent, and some not so good. In particular have heard its not so good at focusing in low light, and that it has a noisy CCD (although magazine and website reviews ive seen seem to say the opposite). Are these true, and how would they affect its use underwater - I would initially just be shooting using the internal flash only as I have a budget of about £700UKP for camera and housing (the 8080/PT-023 package comes in just under this), so a strobe would have to wait a year or so until I get used to the camera. I know its a bulky set up comared to the C-5060 but i'm not too bothered by that as I dont travel much

 

Not really relevant to these forums and a bit of a long shot, but does anyone have experience of the C-8080 with sports photography? I've heard that its not the best, as it can be slow focusing on AF (which would be a major disadvantage for motorsport if true), and doesnt have the longest zooms, although I would get a teleconverter to increase this, and the 8MP instread of 5 would allow me to crop images slightly to further increase zoom. I've ruled out other cameras that would probably be better for sports photography such as the Konica-Minolta A2, Nikon Coolpix 8700 and Canon Pro1 as it seems only ikelite housings are available for them, and my budget doesnt stretch to £500+UKP for housing only! If anyone knows if I can get a housing for one of these, or similar camera, for closer to the price of the PT-023 then please let me know! Would consider second-hand.

 

Also, I'm not in a rush to buy before christmas and would probably wait until around February so does anyone know of any new cameras rumoured to be released in the next few months that would be suitable and within my budget? Such as a new olympus as it seems its only them that make affordable housings for their prosumer type cameras.

 

Thanks,

James

[james 0]

Hi James and welcome to Wetpixel.

 

What sounded off alarms in my head was the word "sports." Consumer digicams just aren't made for shooting sporting events or any other fast action. After the shutter is pressed, the camera takes a while to switch over from "video mode" where it is sending information to the video screen on the back of the camera to "picture taking mode" where it will snap a shot. This is called Shutter Lag and it can be very frustrating for shooting fast action.

 

I would suggest you look at the Canon 300D and Nikon D70 as these are two cameras that are very close in price to the ones you have listed (Konica-Minolta A2, Nikon Coolpix 8700 and Canon Pro1). They are digital SLR's and take photos wit no shutter lag.

 

I think for your needs this might be a better choice. If you don't want to spend the little extra money, then I'd suggest getting an inexpensive digicam and housing (like Oly or Canon) and keeping the film SLR for sports shooting.

 

HTH

James

[jamesdavies83 0]

Thanks for the advice - its what I thought to be honest. Looks like I cant get the best of both worlds with a consumer camera.

 

I have looked at the 300D and the D70 and am really tempted. The only problem would be the cost of the housing, the only ones I have seen are ikelite and others which cost £500+, an amount I just cant justify spending on the housing alone as this would be my first attempt at UW photography. Also the price of lenses that i'd need for shooting sports would be pretty high! I have also noticed that the ikelite housings block the internal flash, so unless I shoot with ambient light only would I need a a strobe? Because I dont want to spend more on a strobe until i am confident with the camera and am used to UW photography.

 

So, looks like I should stick with the film SLR and just get a dedicated UW setup. What housing/camera would you recommend for this? My budget of £700 would be for both camera and housing so I would assume that this would rule out most ikelite housings. At the moment I'm looking at the Oly C-5060 and Pt-020 or the C-8080 with Pt-023. Would the 8080 package be worth the extra £150 over the 5060? Also the Canon G6 has just been released, is there a housing available for this?

 

Thanks

James

[richorn 0]

I think the Fuji 810 would fall into your price range, and is AFAIK available in your region. It has an affordable housing solution, very wide dynamic range, and seems to have much less shutter lag than most of the competition.

 

Everyone I have heard shooting it is raving about it.

[derway 2]

Alas, Oly, Canon, and Nikon have all put out crippled digicams, in terms of autofocus speed, (especially low light), and final shutter lag. The oly 8080 has a final shutter lag of 0.167 seconds, while the 5060 is 0.254 seconds! Yes, many folks love them, and get lots of good photos. But having used a canon G2 for a couple years, I know I have missed some of the most heart breakingly good shots, that I had framed just right, but it wouldn't focus, and I've still got it, but it wouldn't focus, and the fish is now out of position, and it goes off...

 

However, the only answer is not DSLRs.

 

All the latest sony digicams, including 828, V1, V3, T1, T3, P150, all have very good, autofocus systems, and truly fast final shutter lags in the 0.010 range - much faster than any DSLR! The high end ones all take CF cards now too.

 

The latest nikon digi - 8400 MAY have a much improved AF system, and has a decently fast final shutter lag, but the Af system depends on an external IR ranging sensor, which almost surely will not work through even a clear housing. Remains to be seen how fast the AF will be, without the external ranging... The wide angle is certainly helpful for underwater.

 

The other major difference, between DSLRs and digs, is that digis allow you, or force you, to frame with the LCD underwater. With DSLRs, you must use the optical finder, and whatever optics come with the housing, to try to make it useable through a mask, water, housing, etc. Many, perhaps most, prefer the live optical view. But I love the large "viewfinder" of the whole LCD, on a digicam, giving me a nice large screen to compose on.

 

Don

[derway 2]

Hey Richard, which fuji are you taling about? The f810? Can't find a housing for it...

[richorn 0]

AFAIK, it is not going to be imported into the US, but there are supposed to be some reliable suppliers of the camera and the Fuji housing in Japan. It is also available in Canada, if that helps.

[jamesdavies83 0]

All the latest sony digicams, including 828, V1, V3,  T1, T3, P150, all have very good, autofocus systems, and truly fast final shutter lags in the 0.010 range - much faster than any DSLR!  The high end ones all take CF cards now too.

 

The latest nikon digi - 8400 MAY have a much improved AF system, and has a decently fast  final shutter lag, but the Af system depends on an external IR ranging sensor, which almost surely will not work through even a clear housing.  Remains to be seen how fast the AF will be, without the external ranging...  The wide angle is certainly helpful for underwater.

 

Don

 

Ive seen the Sony V3 and Nikon 8400, as well as the Canon G6, and they seem like pretty good cameras. Are there housings available for them yet?

 

Does anyone know how the G6 performs and would it be suitable for shooting UW?

 

James

[derway 2]

I have not handeled a G6, but from reviews and reports, it is somewhat better, AF wise, than earlier G series, but still does not do AF well in low light.

 

See: http://www.imaging-resource.com/ for reviews that have all the timing data.

 

I've decided that it is not in the running for me.

 

Yes, Ikelite already has a housing for it.

 

They have a housing for the sony V1, and likely will for the V3. And very likely will have one for the 8400 as well.

 

Don

[octopulse 1]

Hi James

 

I own a c8080, pt023, underwater wideangle housing and lens and a sea&sea YS60TTL. I went through similar process to yourself trading of expense against features when I decided to get an underwater set-up. I also read a number of reviews of the c8080 some for and some against. I have no used the set up a number of times whilst diving and I can tell you the following: as with it's land based use the camera is very capable with excellent optics. The olympus housing is excellent and not as cumbersome underwater as it's size initially suggests! The shutter lag is virtually non-existant although focusing can be slow. The supermacro mode is very good. I have little doubt that the ikelite housing would have been even better as they make a dome port which is a really disadvantage for the oly. That said if you are a serious amateur I believe the set-up is a good choice. The only other comment I have is that pt-023 can only be used with the oly flash FL20 as standard which is another disadvantage HOWEVER www.mike-dive.de makes an adapter which allows you to attach other strobes and use TTL. You will need this eventually as the built in flash is only useful over a couple of meters. All up I am happy with my decision; especially because unlikle a dSLR I can use the LCD for composition which is a massive plus and the camera allows you to shoot in movie mode. OK it's not pro quality but sometimes thats a real bonus if you want to capture the behaviour of an animal etc.

 

I hope this helps

 

Roger

[Rin 0]

I've been using the PT-023 but now I threw it away and go for ike's as it has a smaller port size, more rigid and durable and it allow TTL with DS-125 and DS-50 which u'll find it simply out-perform the FL20 with PFL-01.

The connect for the housing body to the lens port of PT-023 is very flimsy and I found it is very unsecure.

[Dmanh 0]

Hi James;

I have just joined up here looking for information/to share information as well. I recently purchased the C-8080 and a PT-023. Camera purchase decision was based on all the reviews as having the "best picture quality". This camera replaced a D-550 with a PT-009 housing (my training camera). So far have done 1 dive photo shoot. You can view the pictures at:

http://timmers.bc.ca/~derekh/gallery/200411Drummond

These were done using the internal flash with the diffuser plate. So far I have learned that there is only a very very small sweet spot for taking macro pictures. It is with the camera back about a foot and the lens zoomed in to make up the distance. This way the shadow of the lens housing is pretty well avoided.

Currently I am researching a strobe solution and have yet to come to a conclusion.

Maybe I will start with the PFL-01 housing for the FL-20 flash. As least it will be an inexpensive start.

Regarding sports photography with a flash - you will have a hard time due to the lag. However, I have done some shots of whales using the multi shot mode and this helps quite a bit.

That is it for now. I will post again when I have made a strobe decision.

regards

Derek

[bobf 0]

The only other comment I have is that pt-023 can only be used with the oly flash FL20 as standard which is another disadvantage HOWEVER www.mike-dive.de makes an adapter which allows you to attach other strobes and use TTL.

 

The FL 20 may be only flash that will connect to the Oly bulkhead. But considering the pt 023 housing is clear, there are closer to 30 strobes that will function with that rig. Some will offer TTL, some manual, some auto, and many will offer a combination of strobe control choices.

 

If you do have circumstances such as pre-existing strobes or long term plans that require special adaptations, then mike-dive's aftermarket bulkhead or Matthias Heinrichs' DA and Oly TTL IR units expand the possibilities even further.

[Rin 0]

I would recommend a more decent strobe instead of the oly FL-20. Once u have it, u will consider buying another one with higher intensity and angle of coverage. For the sake of your own bank account, don't waste money on FL-20!!

[Davidhol 0]

Hi Roger

Have you used a mikedive product to attach your sea&sea YS 60 to the PT023 or some other? Does it now work as TTL or is it optic fibre? Our local sea&sea agent have no idea how to make it work.

David

[Don 0]

I just got back from Bonaire and the first use of the Oly c8080 with the PT-023. I got some reasonable shots for a newbie

 

http://homepage.mac.com/donmayer/PhotoAlbum13.html

 

 

It is clear to me that the internal flash is not going to cut it for me so I am looking for recommendations. I was considering the Fl-20 and housing but I am thinking that for the few hundred it costs, I am not gaining much.

 

What would you guys recommend for a set-up? I am going to Jamaica in February and would like to get it before I go...

 

thanks

 

Don

[underexposed 0]

I use Ikelite strobes and like them. The DS-50 works well and the DS-125 even better. It also has a aiming light to help focus and doubles as a dive light.

[underexposed 0]

The pics look good. Did you do any editing? I am learning that most underwater pics need to be played with in some sort of editing software. I am still learning myself but some of these people can work magic. I did a one click ajustment on the pics of yours below.

 

I hope it's OK I played with your pictures...

 

Were the big tarpins hanging out on the HH?

[Ding 0]

I use Ikelite strobes and like them. The DS-50 works well and the DS-125 even better. It also has a aiming light to help focus and doubles as a dive light.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yep the DS50 is good but the 125 is better and the 200 is great it dependes

how much cash u r prepared to spend PS TTL is the future B)

[Osprey 0]

digs, is that digis allow you, or force you, to frame with the LCD underwater.  With DSLRs, you must use the optical finder,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The latest Olympus E330 does provide an LCD view screen ... so you don't need to use the viewfinder.

[Osprey 0]

Hi

Not posted here before, but recently been reading this forum and getting quite interested in UW photography - so want to get myself a camera + housing set up.

I already have a film SLR that i've used for some motorsport photography, so i'm looking to replace this with a set up that I can use for sports as well as UW.  Reading this and other forums I see the Olympus C-5060/PT-020 is an excellent UW set up, but i'm not sure how suitable it is for sports photography, so I started looking at the C-8080/PT-023

Thanks,

James

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

James ... if you do decide you want the Olympus C-8080 .... I have a C-8080 and Ikelite Housing (+ CRPro Filter) both camera & housing are MINT and both under warranty.

 

Rick

[ce4jesus 1]

"All the latest sony digicams, including 828, V1, V3, T1, T3, P150, all have very good, autofocus systems, and truly fast final shutter lags in the 0.010 range - much faster than any DSLR! The high end ones all take CF cards now too."

 

Faster than a digital SLR as well...hmmmmm. I think I'd wager on that!

 

Autofocus time in low light conditions is the real issue. Many cameras perform well topside and have negligible shutter lag; however, once submersed on a cloudy day they take forever to lock the focus.

 

BTW...how does one measure "true shutter lag"? It seems to me any test you ran would be rather subjective. Anything below .25 of a second would "subjectively" be considered negligible. I have older digicams where its measured in seconds and is noticable. In the newer ones, I've not noticed a real difference topside. Most of them that I've tested manually have a tendency to focus slower in low light. So, if you dive with a good focus light, you eliminate the issue altogether. My wife and I serve as each other's "focus light" while the other is enjoying the camera. Some other factors you should consider:

RAW capability and RAW write times. I have found adjusting the white balance post dive has been invaluable to saving a few photos. Write times of Super Fine, SHQ JPEGs is also a concern.

Complete manual mode - My SP-350 will allow me to do everything manually including the focus and strobe. BTW...by presetting everything including the subject distance in manual mode there is no shutter lag whatsoever.

Battery life - seems inconsequential but if you can shoot all day on one card and one set of batteries....that means no opening the camera on the boat between dives.

Housing availability - I agree with the Ike asessment stated on here.

Flash recharge time - again seems inconsequential but I're read that some cameras take as long as 6-10 seconds between shots just to recharge the internal strobe.

 

At the end of the day, there's a workaround for almost everything and your skill with any camera will trump almost everything else. When I need a good dose of humility, I simply look at some of Alex M's shots with a consumer digicam + internal strobe.