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Perhaps predictably, Nikon has announced their flagship Z series camera:

https://www.nikon.com/news/2021/0310_z_01.htm

The press release is short on details, so my opinion may well change, but based on the listed specs, I don't see any real advantage over the Z7 II for underwater use?

I would be much more excited about Sigma announcing a Z Mount 15mm fisheye or the Nikon Z 105mm/50mm macro lenses that are on their roadmaps.

Or am I missing something?
 

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45 minutes ago, adamhanlon said:

Perhaps predictably, Nikon has announced their flagship Z series camera:

https://www.nikon.com/news/2021/0310_z_01.htm

The press release is short on details, so my opinion may well change, but based on the listed specs, I don't see any real advantage over the Z7 II for underwater use?

I would be much more excited about Sigma announcing a Z Mount 15mm fisheye or the Nikon Z 105mm/50mm macro lenses that are on their roadmaps.

Or am I missing something?
 

It does not say much the shape is professional format instead of small footprint

This year after Sony, Nikon and Panasonic will come with new to range I think while Canon has already done with it with the R5

If the Olympics go ahead we will see product releases in April and May

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The press release just says this is happening. With nothing on still photo specs. So I’d wait and see what the sensor actually is and for the advances in frame rate and autofocus before forming a still photography opinion. 

If they are announcing later in the year, you would have to expect it to match/exceed the cameras from rivals that are already out there. Or maybe it does not, which is why they are not saying anything on specs!

Alex

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https://www.dpreview.com/interviews/9636338352/interview-nikon-a-flagship-nikon-z-series-mirrorless-camera-can-be-expected-within-the-year

8K video

I bet Nikon and Panasonic will use the same sensor in the latest Sony A1

1. Sony obviously

2. Panasonic before the Olympics. Panasonic does not rely on sensor technology for autofocus only need to design ASICs

3. Nikon as they have less experience with video and have their own quirks to lay upon the chip

Although I like video I really do not see a point in 8K video right now. The masses are on HD and Instagram is 1080x608

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Until I see some real specs on Nikon’s new Z9, everything about it is purely speculative. 

 

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Until I see some real specs on Nikon’s new Z9, everything about it is purely speculative. 

 


For sure but to be frank I don’t think anybody is thrilled by Nikon Z series here


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Outside of maybe video work, I have not seen anything that would move me from Nikon’s D850 to a mirrorless camera from Nikon, Canon or even Sony.

 

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15 minutes ago, Walt Stearns said:

 

Outside of maybe video work, I have not seen anything that would move me from Nikon’s D850 to a mirrorless camera from Nikon, Canon or even Sony.

 

Yes that is why I said nobody is thrilled on this forum. I do not see video creators embracing nikon either

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From the Video P.OV.

Quote

 

Another day, another $6K camera! I am sure the Nikon Z9 is going to be a very nice one, but Nikon appears to be playing follow my leader, as a company that simply rehouses Sony’s cameras.

Yes Nikon’s hands are in the parts bin again! Let’s see what they come up with this time. Pick a sensor (from Sony). Pick an image processor (from Sony). Put it together in Thailand. Stamp a Nikon logo on the front and call it done. As with the Nikon Z6 and Sony A7 III so it follows the Z9 looks to be a Sony A1 with a Nikon badge.

 

https://www.eoshd.com/news/nikon-z9-thoughts-and-what-to-expect-on-the-video-side-following-my-leader-sony-a1/#more-26701

6K$ the market is really a small pond by now.

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From the Video P.OV.
 
Another day, another $6K camera! I am sure the Nikon Z9 is going to be a very nice one, but Nikon appears to be playing follow my leader, as a company that simply rehouses Sony’s cameras.
Yes Nikon’s hands are in the parts bin again! Let’s see what they come up with this time. Pick a sensor (from Sony). Pick an image processor (from Sony). Put it together in Thailand. Stamp a Nikon logo on the front and call it done. As with the Nikon Z6 and Sony A7 III so it follows the Z9 looks to be a Sony A1 with a Nikon badge.
 
https://www.eoshd.com/news/nikon-z9-thoughts-and-what-to-expect-on-the-video-side-following-my-leader-sony-a1/#more-26701
6K$ the market is really a small pond by now.

In mirrorless world there are basically 3 sensors Sony, canon and Fuji.
Fuji only does APSC and medium format so it is not in full frame
Canon doesn’t license their sensors
So Nikon, Panasonic, OMD all use Sony technology
While Panasonic has focus on video and OMD is on MFT cameras Nikon is exactly on the same platform of Sony with no real added value proposition. Their cameras are bulkier than sony and don’t achieve almost anything Sony can’t do and they are always late on the market
Canon invested in their own technology and this is now paying back
I am afraid Nikon mirrorless future is very dim


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7 minutes ago, scuba_d said:

This may not be the case for Nikon: Who Will Make Nikon's Next Sensor?

The article says Nikon funded most of the development of Sony stacked BI full frame sensor

But whatever the case. What is the value add that Nikon provides over Sony for their mirrorless cameras made with the same chip?

I cannot see any

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8 minutes ago, Interceptor121 said:

But whatever the case. What is the value add that Nikon provides over Sony for their mirrorless cameras made with the same chip?

You probably did not read the article, which elaborates that the new sensor may be built by Tower semiconductor. So your suggestion that the new sensor will be Sony may be wrong - not the same chip.

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Posted (edited)

According to Thom Hogan, the Sony stacked sensors are two smaller sized bonded together and they are not 65nm, whereas the new Nikon sensor is likely to be 65nm. Nikon's 1" research project was fabbed at Tower Semiconductor, which began a 65nm image sensor program in Japan back in 2014. Therefore, there may be another possible large sensor producer that now has stacked capabilities - Tower Semiconductor, which is local to the Nikon research team.

Edited by scuba_d

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Posted (edited)

Many of the older photographers on this form were around for the Post-Film era when we transitioned into DSLR's. This pre-pre anouncement for the Nikon Z9 points towards the Post-DSLR era or at least post D5/6 era.

I think several conclusions about the camera can be drawn based on the scant information provided. Obviously from the photos the camera will have a built-in vertical grip rather than a removable one. I would expect the build quality to be robust with excellent weather sealing and excellent ergonomics. For sure the best build quality of any of the mirrorless cameras they have released and perhaps better than any of the DSLR's. Nikon has a stellar reputation for build quality so I think this is a given. 

The sensor regardless of who it comes from will be of the "Stacked" architecture, with my limited understand of how the sensors are produced let me expand on what this will provide to underwater photographers. The key is speed not yet seen in other sensors without the expense of high heat, loss of high resolution, or loss of dynamic range. I have the Sony A1 in hand and the specs are possible because of this now third generation stacked sensor used in the camera. The camera has 8K video and because of the sensor design it can be run for close to two hours pretty much until the care fills up without over heating like the Canon R5 because of the sensor design. the speed with which the information moves from the sensor to the card (Sony has also introduced new high speed cards) is remarkable. It allows you to shoot with the mechanical shutter and sync your flash up to 1/400th sec. full frame or 1/500th sec. if you switch into APS-C mode, often used by sports photographers. In electronic shutter you can sync the flash up to 1/200th sec. These are things that no other camera can do and it is a result of the stacked sensor. Regardless of which sensor Nikon chooses for the Z9 I would expect to see similar or better results. In mirrorless cameras auto focus is off the sensor and with the Sony A1 the camera can refocus like 120 times a second. The electronic shutter can shoot 30 FPS, so fast that not all of the Sony lenses can keep up with the AF speed. For those shooting sports like the Olympics the A1 and Z9 will surly add value because they both will have sophisticated wireless data transfer and unlimited shooting in Jpeg. The Associated Press has already adopted Sony as their camera provider for its speed and ability to shoot silent in electronic shutter among other things. I am sure that the Nikon Z9 will also grab a large piece of that market. For all the Nikon faithful I would hope to see Nikon continue with the base ISO of 64 like in the Z7 II rather than the ISO 100 like Sony cameras. I find the slight increase in dynamic range at 64 much more useful than ISO-one billion. 

I agree with Adam that a native auto focus fisheye would be well received by all underwater shooters moving to mirrorless and I sincerely hope that Nikon provides one. The only company that has been consistent in this regard was Olympus now OM. My first DSLR was the  5MP Olympus E-1 an excellent camera for its time. This was Olympus first entry back into the camera market after film and Olympus introduced an 8mm fisheye as one of the first six lenses. 

Regarding Canon's sensor business the same rumor mills that brought use the Nikon Z9 are now speculating that Canon will release a new ESO R1 flagship camera to compete with Nikon Z9 and Sony A1. This camera is rumored to introduce a high MP global shutter of Canon's design. If this is true the restraints of shutter sync speeds could pretty much be removed because the "global" sensor collects all of the light at the same time rather than from top to bottom like most current DSLR and mirrorless full frame cameras.

Final word is that you are dreaming if you  think the Nikon Z9 will come in at $6000.00. To hit that target price they would need to take shortcuts like a lower res EVF in the 5.7M dot range rather than the 9.44m dot range of the Sony A1. It would be a pity if Nikon goes this route like they did with the 3.6m dot EVF in the Z7 II rather than the 5.7m dot EVF's used in cameras at smilier price points.      

Edited by Phil Rudin

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According to Thom Hogan, the Sony stacked sensors are two smaller sized bonded together and they are not 65nm, whereas the new Nikon sensor is likely to be 65nm. Nikon's 1" research project was fabbed at Tower Semiconductor, which began a 65nm image sensor program in Japan back in 2014. Therefore, there may be another possible large sensor producer that now has stacked capabilities - Tower Semiconductor, which is local to the Nikon research team.

My point is what does Nikon bring to the mix
Autofocus not really
Better video not really
Maybe better build and ergonomics??
When you are late in the game is always hard
Nikon does most of their business in cameras the end of DSLR will no doubt impact them if they keep not having anything special in their cameras
None of the z6/7 I or II are better than their competitors on any count


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Posted (edited)
On 3/13/2021 at 5:36 AM, Interceptor121 said:


My point is what does Nikon bring to the mix
Autofocus not really
Better video not really
Maybe better build and ergonomics??
When you are late in the game is always hard
Nikon does most of their business in cameras the end of DSLR will no doubt impact them if they keep not having anything special in their cameras
None of the z6/7 I or II are better than their competitors on any count


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My understanding: stacked sensors yield higher data bandwidth, and these mirrorless cameras manufacturers  may choose to use these extra/faster data in a number of ways.

One is for the autofocus to "see" the scene more often/with more details and react quicker/smarter in terms of driving focus. 

We're understanding that Nikon won't be using exactly the same design as the Sony A1 + it's totally up to them to decide how they use the faster data.

So there is opportunity for Nikon to differentiate themselves. 

My personal hope is that they put a focus (haha) on the autofocus - I mean Nikon are leading autofocus performance in DSLR land. Yes the architecture is different on a mirorless camera (no more dedicated AF sensor), but surely they can re-use some of their knowledge, algorythms, etc. 

Being late doesn't mean you cannot catchup in the race and take the lead. Up until 2007 Nikon was using CCD sensors whereas Canon was on CMOS. Nikon was lagging in image quality because the signal-to-noise ratio is harder to manage on CCD (so quicker image degradation/more loss as ISO increased). End 2007 Nikon launched their first CMOS DSLRs (D3 and D300) and overtook Canon in noise management / High ISOs.

Exciting anyways!! 

Edited by Nicool
forgot a point

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My understanding: stacked sensors yield higher data bandwidth, and these mirrorless cameras manufacturers  may choose to use these extra/faster data in a number of ways.
One is for the autofocus to "see" the scene more often/with more details and react quicker/smarter in terms of driving focus. 
We're understanding that Nikon won't be using exactly the same design as the Sony A1 + it's totally up to them to decide how they use the faster data.
So there is opportunity for Nikon to differentiate themselves. 
My personal hope is that they put a focus (haha) on the autofocus - I mean Nikon are leading autofocus performance in DSLR land. Yes the architecture is different on a mirorless camera (no more dedicated AF sensor), but surely they can re-use some of their knowledge, algorythms, etc. 
Being late doesn't mean you cannot catchup in the race and take the lead. Up until 2007 Nikon was using CCD sensors whereas Canon was on CMOS. Nikon was lagging in image quality because the signal-to-noise ratio is harder to manage on CCD (so quicker image degradation/more loss as ISO increased). End 2007 Nikon launched their first CMOS DSLRs (D3 and D300) and overtook Canon in noise management / High ISOs.
Exciting anyways!! 

Sony is using stacked since years on their full frame
It is a question mark if this is going to be allowed to 3rd parties
So far it hasn’t
Stacked sensors are important for burst and video however they are not required for underwater stills
Sony themselves makes their video focussed camera out of the exmor R line
We are no longer in a situation where the market is booming so catching up is harder when you are lagging behind and have no money
I think the biggest issue for underwater photographers is that for most the audience is made of older users who like a DSLR so they are the ones who will adopt whatever comes as late as possible
What will this rumoured camera going to do for those guys?


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2 hours ago, Interceptor121 said:

Sony is using stacked since years on their full frame
It is a question mark if this is going to be allowed to 3rd parties

Be it Sony's or another one, Nikon announce their Z9 will have a stacked sensor, see from the official Nikon press release:

It utilizes a newly developed FX-format stacked CMOS sensor

Can't wait to see what will happen. Hopefully Nikon can challenge the Sony offering and offer healthy competition for us consumers.

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