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Pomacentridae

Advice on using Olympus 60mm Macro with CMC-1

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I've been enjoying using the Olympus 60mm macro and decided to up the capability by adding the CMC-1. However, I found with that combo, the working distance is severely limited. It is so easy to be just too far or too close for the camera to focus. I practiced with it on a few dives and in the pool, but found it impossibly hard. I feel like i need a tripod to get it to work. It sort of became useless to me. I am okay with the razor thin DOF at that is typical for macro.

 

Wanted to know other people’s experiences with that combo? Is it really difficult or would it just be me and my inexperience?

 

At the moment I am thinking of selling the CMC-1, get a lower powered optic, or if i just need to change my approach or practice.

 

 

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The working distance data is on the port chart, CMC-1 is 22-70mm and the CMC-2 is 33-122mm, which is twice the working range, so would make it more likely you'll land in a range where the camera can focus I would think.  The CMC-2 gets 1.7x at 33mm vs 2.0x for the CMC-1 at 22mm.  I would think anything less than 50mm working distance would be hard to use and light.  The CMC-2 should be easier to use but still not "easy".

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7 hours ago, Pomacentridae said:

 

I've been enjoying using the Olympus 60mm macro and decided to up the capability by adding the CMC-1. However, I found with that combo, the working distance is severely limited. It is so easy to be just too far or too close for the camera to focus. I practiced with it on a few dives and in the pool, but found it impossibly hard. I feel like i need a tripod to get it to work. It sort of became useless to me. I am okay with the razor thin DOF at that is typical for macro.

 

Wanted to know other people’s experiences with that combo? Is it really difficult or would it just be me and my inexperience?

 

At the moment I am thinking of selling the CMC-1, get a lower powered optic, or if i just need to change my approach or practice.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Hi Pomacentridae,

I use the Zuiko 60mm/CMC1 combo on a regular basis with EM1II. I have the CMC1 on the Nauticam flip holder (I flip it to the top, when not in use, so it is not in the way of the flashes). I find this arrangement very comfortable and use it practically always when I go into the water with Zuiko 60mm. There are, however, dives when I just have the CMC1 with me, but do not use it, since the Zuiko 60mm alone provides enough magnification for the motifs I find...

The CMC1 helps, when the magnification of the pure 60mm macro, at closest working distance (1x), is not enough. Then I can get even closer and the magnification is increased (to 2x). I would not take a diopter with less magnification, since the 2x gain is already not so much increase compared to 1x and with less dioptries you will get even less. For sure 60mm+CMC1 is more difficult to handle compared to 60mm alone, but the extra magnification is worth the  troubles. Just a matter of getting used to it...

 

Wolfgang

Edited by Architeuthis

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21 hours ago, Architeuthis said:

Hi Pomacentridae,

I use the Zuiko 60mm/CMC1 combo on a regular basis with EM1II. I have the CMC1 on the Nauticam flip holder (I flip it to the top, when not in use, so it is not in the way of the flashes). I find this arrangement very comfortable and use it practically always when I go into the water with Zuiko 60mm. There are, however, dives when I just have the CMC1 with me, but do not use it, since the Zuiko 60mm alone provides enough magnification for the motifs I find...

The CMC1 helps, when the magnification of the pure 60mm macro, at closest working distance (1x), is not enough. Then I can get even closer and the magnification is increased (to 2x). I would not take a diopter with less magnification, since the 2x gain is already not so much increase compared to 1x and with less dioptries you will get even less. For sure 60mm+CMC1 is more difficult to handle compared to 60mm alone, but the extra magnification is worth the  troubles. Just a matter of getting used to it...

 

Wolfgang

Thanks for this feedback, I realize that the flip diopter would help me greatly. Right now I am having to screw it on and off. So I am always having to back off to make changes and return, so by that time the subject already repositioned.

Any tips on keeping steady and working with that close working distance? I am working with shrimp and typically they get spooked once you get within 70mm. Or do you typically use the CMC1 with relatively still subjects like nudis? Do you use a tripod?

With regard to focusing, do you prefer to just set the focus and move the camera back and forth?

 

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2 hours ago, Pomacentridae said:

Thanks for this feedback, I realize that the flip diopter would help me greatly. Right now I am having to screw it on and off. So I am always having to back off to make changes and return, so by that time the subject already repositioned.

Any tips on keeping steady and working with that close working distance? I am working with shrimp and typically they get spooked once you get within 70mm. Or do you typically use the CMC1 with relatively still subjects like nudis? Do you use a tripod?

With regard to focusing, do you prefer to just set the focus and move the camera back and forth?

 

I do not use a tripod. I am a righthander and hold the camera in my right hand. Whenever possible, I try to put the camera on my left arm as a support for macros. Sometimes there is rock, where I can press the camera (and/or left arm) to, so that it is more steady. I almays watch miticulously where I put my left arm and/or the camera, so that I touch only dead material, never corals!

With CMC-1 I do still objects, as nudies (most are so big that the pure 60mm macro is enough; remember at 1x a 17mm object fills the frame; with CMC-1 it is even a 8.5mm object that fills the frame (2x)), preferentially their eggs (these require the CMC-1). Fast moving objects will, of course, be even more difficult. When animals are spooked it is, of course, not possible and one would need even longer focal with (sometimes I use the Canon 100mm IS with Metabones adapter, but the AF is not good then (the rumors say that a Zuiko 100mm macro is on the way))...

With CMC-1, I use C-AF for coarse focusing as with the pure 60mm (EM1II). Sometimes this is enough, but sometimes the final adjustment before shutter release is done by moving back and forth the camera a little...

 

Wolfgang

Edited by Architeuthis

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2 hours ago, Pomacentridae said:

Thanks for this feedback, I realize that the flip diopter would help me greatly. Right now I am having to screw it on and off. So I am always having to back off to make changes and return, so by that time the subject already repositioned.

Any tips on keeping steady and working with that close working distance? I am working with shrimp and typically they get spooked once you get within 70mm. Or do you typically use the CMC1 with relatively still subjects like nudis? Do you use a tripod?

With regard to focusing, do you prefer to just set the focus and move the camera back and forth?

 

For supermacro with the CMC-1 as in this example I use manual focus

Set the camera to the minimum working distance and then using peaking shoot when the subject is in focus

This ensures maximum magnification but requires you to be stable. CAF helps but does not ensure you are totally maxed out on magnification which is the reason you use the CMC in the first place

48221161812_9a73fdae0b_h.jpg

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43 minutes ago, Interceptor121 said:

For supermacro with the CMC-1 as in this example I use manual focus

Set the camera to the minimum working distance and then using peaking shoot when the subject is in focus

Do you have a focus gear for MF or do you set the lens to minimum distance before you put it into the housing?

Wolfgang

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Do you have a focus gear for MF or do you set the lens to minimum distance before you put it into the housing?
Wolfgang

Focus gear is required


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11 minutes ago, Interceptor121 said:


Focus gear is required


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In my hands, the manual focus is extremely slow, i.e. many turns are required to see a noticeable effect in change of focus distance. Therefore I never use MF. Tips how to use it properly are highly welcome...

Wolfgang

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28 minutes ago, Architeuthis said:

In my hands, the manual focus is extremely slow, i.e. many turns are required to see a noticeable effect in change of focus distance. Therefore I never use MF. Tips how to use it properly are highly welcome...

Wolfgang

On the 60mm is painful the focus ring has a very long run but it gets shorter if you are already close.

however if I remember the EM1MKII has a pre-mf mode where you can set the focus distance to the minimum. I am not sure is entirely reliable but worth checking. There are also other ways like carrying a small ruler and doing autofocus and then switch

Or more simply find a rock and start shooting until it focuses no more and lock

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8 hours ago, Architeuthis said:

In my hands, the manual focus is extremely slow, i.e. many turns are required to see a noticeable effect in change of focus distance. Therefore I never use MF. Tips how to use it properly are highly welcome...

Wolfgang

I have programmed my Em1 Mk 2  F2 button to switch between MF and preset MF at the minimum range to get 1-1.  F1 is programmed for focus peaking (red). This enables me to switch between back button focus and preset MF quickly and be more confident about nailing the focus at 1-1.  Doesn't help the battery life, though! 

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13 hours ago, Architeuthis said:

In my hands, the manual focus is extremely slow, i.e. many turns are required to see a noticeable effect in change of focus distance. Therefore I never use MF. Tips how to use it properly are highly welcome...

Wolfgang

Agree, it's very slow to MF even outside the housing and the gearing only slows it down.  There is preset MF but It doesn't seem entirely reliable.  I'm not sure you want to place it right at 1:1 anyway as when you swing the CMC in place you'll be at 2x and focus will be at 22mm from the lens.  You may not always want to be at 2x depending on the subject. 

I seem to have enough trouble aiming the bare lens for shooting close to 1:1 and my usual approach is to frame from a greater distance and move in, focusing as I go.  The CMC-2 would be more amenable to this approach with the longer working distance and realistically the difference between 1.7x and 2x is not that great and it may be easier getting used to the process using the lesser powered diopter.

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17 hours ago, Architeuthis said:

I do not use a tripod. I am a righthander and hold the camera in my right hand. Whenever possible, I try to put the camera on my left arm as a support for macros. Sometimes there is rock, where I can press the camera (and/or left arm) to, so that it is more steady. I almays watch miticulously where I put my left arm and/or the camera, so that I touch only dead material, never corals!

With CMC-1 I do still objects, as nudies (most are so big that the pure 60mm macro is enough; remember at 1x a 17mm object fills the frame; with CMC-1 it is even a 8.5mm object that fills the frame (2x)), preferentially their eggs (these require the CMC-1). Fast moving objects will, of course, be even more difficult. When animals are spooked it is, of course, not possible and one would need even longer focal with (sometimes I use the Canon 100mm IS with Metabones adapter, but the AF is not good then (the rumors say that a Zuiko 100mm macro is on the way))...

With CMC-1, I use C-AF for coarse focusing as with the pure 60mm (EM1II). Sometimes this is enough, but sometimes the final adjustment before shutter release is done by moving back and forth the camera a little...

 

Wolfgang

Thanks for that. Makes more sense to me now. My take away is that at super macro you need to go with static subjects. I was a bit more optimistic in getting moving subjects as using just the 60mm allows.

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7 hours ago, JustinO said:

I have programmed my Em1 Mk 2  F2 button to switch between MF and preset MF at the minimum range to get 1-1.  F1 is programmed for focus peaking (red). This enables me to switch between back button focus and preset MF quickly and be more confident about nailing the focus at 1-1.  Doesn't help the battery life, though! 

I use the preset MF too. Why does it consume more battery? I don't seem to notice a significant drop (although I normally always dive with a full battery so maybe that's why).

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17 hours ago, Pomacentridae said:

I use the preset MF too. Why does it consume more battery? I don't seem to notice a significant drop (although I normally always dive with a full battery so maybe that's why).

Ah, sorry- wasn't clear. i don't use a CMC-1 or 2, but do flick between preset MF and MF. i find my battery goes flat a bit quicker from the extra motor movements, and from the IBIS. It still lasts two dives.   I have two bodies, too - oddly I find the 60mm drains faster than the 40-150mm - but I haven't done any scientific tests - it's just my outdoor observation. 

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I am preparing for a three week UW-photography trip to the Red Sea (we will leave in two days)... :)

I want to put the "Preset MF" at minimum focus distance for the Zuiko 60mm (with and without CMC1) to the "C2" setting, so that I can start easily with macro. I see that the distance can be preset from 999.9 m in 0.1 m increments (EM1II). The minimum focus distance of the 60mm macro is 0.19m, so I have set the preset to 000.1 m, the minimum that is possible. It works and when switching to "C2" I have a very close distance, presumably 1:1.

=> I just want to ask whether this is correct or did I overlook a problem that I create with this inaccurate setting (000.1m instead of the 000.19m (that are not possible to set)). Should I set instead to 000.2 m (closest to 0.19 m) and sacrify some magnification, in order to be on the safe side (the writing on the lens says that at 20 cm the mag is 1:1.3)...

=> To what value do you guys preset to get 1:1 magnification?

 

Thanks, Wolfgang

P.S.: Although I have enabled focus peaking, I cannot see in focus regions in red, when moving the camera back and forth (what would be quite helpful). Does focus peaking not work in the "Preset MF" mode?

Edited by Architeuthis

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Not too familiar with Olympus, but on Panasonic you can map focus peaking to a button to toggle it on off, even in AF mode.

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On 11/14/2021 at 2:50 PM, Architeuthis said:

I am preparing for a three week UW-photography trip to the Red Sea (we will leave in two days)... :)

I want to put the "Preset MF" at minimum focus distance for the Zuiko 60mm (with and without CMC1) to the "C2" setting, so that I can start easily with macro. I see that the distance can be preset from 999.9 m in 0.1 m increments (EM1II). The minimum focus distance of the 60mm macro is 0.19m, so I have set the preset to 000.1 m, the minimum that is possible. It works and when switching to "C2" I have a very close distance, presumably 1:1.

=> I just want to ask whether this is correct or did I overlook a problem that I create with this inaccurate setting (000.1m instead of the 000.19m (that are not possible to set)). Should I set instead to 000.2 m (closest to 0.19 m) and sacrify some magnification, in order to be on the safe side (the writing on the lens says that at 20 cm the mag is 1:1.3)...

=> To what value do you guys preset to get 1:1 magnification?

 

Thanks, Wolfgang

P.S.: Although I have enabled focus peaking, I cannot see in focus regions in red, when moving the camera back and forth (what would be quite helpful). Does focus peaking not work in the "Preset MF" mode?

Sorry Wolfgang just saw this and no doubt you're already there - hope the Red Sea is as amazing as always!

What you have done is what I do  - I set it to 000.1m in the menu.  I have also found that I need to have the focus limiter on the lens set on the 0.19 - infinity range. If I have it set on 0.19-0.4m, then for reasons I have yet to fathom, I can't get the preset to set to 1-1 at all!

My EM1 body is configured as follows:

Fn1 - Focus Peaking

Fn2 - Preset/MF 

AEL - Back button focus (when in MF or preset focus modes)

Bottom keypad button -  MF.   This enables me to switch between MF and whatever other focus mode I have selected (e.g. S-AF and MF,  or C-AF and MF - the modes can be changed by pressing the AF /metering button).  I usually have it set to S-AF/MF. 

There's also a quick way to adjust prefocus distance without going into the menus. or if you don't know how far away you are from the subject, or if you want to move back from 1:1 to get more of the subject in the frame: 

1. Press AF/metering button on top of the power button

2. when the focus/metering  menu pops up, select the PreMF on the right of the display

3. Press the info button (your PreMF setting will then be shown)

4. Half press the shutter button to adjust the focus distance (if you have the focus ring you can also tweak it that way)

5. Press set to accept the new PreMF setting - it will also show you what it's set to.  

If you mirror my button customisation set up and adjust PreMF this way, make sure that at some point you repeat step 1- and select your "normal" focus mode - otherwise you will have Fn2 and the bottom keypad button doing the same thing. 

On your final question, yes, Focus Peaking does work with PreMF Mode - just as long as you don't have the shutter button half-pressed- that seems to temporarily turn it off. 

Hope that helps!

Edited by JustinO

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