60mm macro vs 17-70?

[sinetwo 31]

Hey folks, 

 

I've got a 105 and a 10-17 paired with a d500 (crop). Sometimes I do go on dives and I don't know what to expect, and I've heard very mixed reviews about the 17-70.

Whilst I have a small dome, I'd have to upgrade the dome + get a zoom gear if I wanted to get a 17-70. However I do have a 60mm macro port. 

The 105mm is just too zoomed in and requires at least semi decent vis to do fish portraits. 

Question: would the 60mm be good for both fish portrait and macro, on a dive where you don't know what to expect? Or should a 17-70 be better?

 

I've not found many topics about it but I do know 60mm is very preferable in Blackwater diving at least!

 

Thanks! 

[ChrisRoss 150]

1 hour ago, sinetwo said:

Hey folks, 

 

I've got a 105 and a 10-17 paired with a d500 (crop). Sometimes I do go on dives and I don't know what to expect, and I've heard very mixed reviews about the 17-70.

Whilst I have a small dome, I'd have to upgrade the dome + get a zoom gear if I wanted to get a 17-70. However I do have a 60mm macro port. 

The 105mm is just too zoomed in and requires at least semi decent vis to do fish portraits. 

Question: would the 60mm be good for both fish portrait and macro, on a dive where you don't know what to expect? Or should a 17-70 be better?

 

I've not found many topics about it but I do know 60mm is very preferable in Blackwater diving at least!

 

Thanks! 

I know a few people around Sydney who use the 60mm macro with a D500, for example Andrew Trevor-Jones, who uses it almost exclusively.  You can see some of the shots he gets on his Facebook page:  https://www.facebook.com/atj777

I use both 60mm and 30mm macro lenses on my m43 and find 30mm (60mm full frame equivalent)  quite good in typical temperate water for fish up to 400mm long. 

You could probably use the 17-70 with quite a small dome recognising that the images between 17 and about 25mm would have soft corners, but the files from about 35-40mm onwards would be every bit as good as a flat port, but you would have to work out what extension you need and of course get a zoom gear.   If you were to get the 8.5"dome the min focus distance which indicates a working distance of about  87mm and min focus it would focus right on the dome at max magnification.   The downside is max magnification is only 0.36x, while life size is achievable with the 60mm macro. 

[TimG 62]

Hi sinetwo

I'm using a 60mm on a D500 (and a 105 too). I've found this good for both macro (very good indeed) and for fish portraits. Can't compare it to the 17-70 though. But the D500 and the 60mm has, for me, been a great combination.

Some examples:

 

[oneyellowtang 112]

@sinetwo

Go with the 60mm (for the D500). This is the "go to" lens for macro and small fish portraits for this camera...

I have been shooting with this combo for years. Very versatile lens... (actually prefer this lens to the 105 on the D500).

[sinetwo 31]

Thanks folks. I think I'll go with the 60mm as it's relatively affordable, and bide my time until I get a proper 8.5" dome in the future. The outlay to get the big dome + zoom gear + sigma is a bit extreme. With the 60 I already have everything I need and only need to get the lens. 

 

@TimG love the shark portrait!! 

[TimG 62]

5 hours ago, sinetwo said:

Thanks folks. I think I'll go with the 60mm as it's relatively affordable, and bide my time until I get a proper 8.5" dome in the future. The outlay to get the big dome + zoom gear + sigma is a bit extreme. With the 60 I already have everything I need and only need to get the lens. 

 

@TimG love the shark portrait!! 

Good call, sinetwo - especially compared to the big dome option.

One thing you may come across, the Nikkor 60m has been very hard indeed to find recently. I bought mine around May time and couldn't find one in Europe, the US or the UK. I ended up finding one here in Sint Maarten (doh!). The shop had two of them and I was almost tempted to buy them both and stick one on eBay!

(Thanks on the shark pic! Classic image here in Sint Maarten)

[sinetwo 31]

Hey @TimG are you specifically talking about the Nikon AF-S Micro NIKKOR 60mm f/2.8G ED? That's the one that is compatible with the 18701 60mm macro port, but oddly enough the older one requires 18211- Compact Port Base + 18301 Compact Port 30.

 

I'll go hunting now  

[TimG 62]

4 minutes ago, sinetwo said:

Hey @TimG are you specifically talking about the Nikon AF-S Micro NIKKOR 60mm f/2.8G ED? That's the one that is compatible with the 18701 60mm macro port, but oddly enough the older one requires 18211- Compact Port Base + 18301 Compact Port 30.

 

I'll go hunting now  

Yep, that's the one - the newer 60mm. They were certainly (almost) impossible to find a few months back. Rather than hunting around online, I'd suggest a visit to your local camera shop if you have one (are there any left in the UK?) and see if they have a lens gathering dust on a shelf.....

[sinetwo 31]

@TimGIf you're willing to buy used (even approved used from places like MPB) and hopefully throw a bit less into landfill as a result, there are some decent deals. I just nabbed one "like new" with all original packaging, both caps + hood (which I'll probably get rid of) for £380

[TimG 62]

38 minutes ago, sinetwo said:

@TimGIf you're willing to buy used (even approved used from places like MPB) and hopefully throw a bit less into landfill as a result, there are some decent deals. I just nabbed one "like new" with all original packaging, both caps + hood (which I'll probably get rid of) for £380

Good deal! Well done, you! 

[sinetwo 31]

Fingers crossed @TimG - I'll hopefully post some UK Water pictures with it

[TimG 62]

48 minutes ago, sinetwo said:

Fingers crossed @TimG - I'll hopefully post some UK Water pictures with it

Yeah, do. I'm sure you'll like the lens. It's an ideal combination with the D500.

[Draq 135]

I realize the OP has already purchased a lens, so this is late, but I thought I would add a comment.  I am happy with the 60mm but recently bought the 85mm macro (which may now be discontinued?).  The reason is the substantially greater working distance.  Some small creatures get perturbed when a port is really close.  The 85 offers substantially greater working distance but should be easier to use than the 105, which I also have but is heavy and can be too much for general use.

 

The 85 works with a 20mm extension on the 60 port, so that port, with appropriate extensions, can handle three macro lenses.

Unfortunately, this is theoretical at the moment.  I have not gotten to try out the 85 yet because on my last dive trip I had an equipment failure resulting in no strobes...

[sinetwo 31]

Hey @Draq I appreciate the feedback nevertheless, despite having grabbed a fantastic lens at a fantastic price

 

Where I am now is that I'd usually use something like the 105 should I go to somewhere like Tulamben / Lembeh, because it's a perfect lens. With the 105 on a crop however, unless the water is super clear, the working distance on a crop camera is almost too great for anything medium/big. With the 60 I'm hoping that'll be a nice medium for dives where "anything can happen" and I suspect having seen other people's photos, the IQ is really good, as it is a prime.

 

85 would bring me too close to the 105 - I've no problem using a 105mm, in fact I love using it, but it's got it's place. For example, I went diving in North Wales a few weeks ago, and I got two subjects which were great of the 105, but everything else was just too big due to visibility - the working distance is fine, but there is no way to get clean shots on larger subjects with a 105 on a crop, when vis is 3m.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing your 85mm shots if you're able to fix your strobe issue (hopefully it wasn't optical cables, cause I'd suggest you always keep a backup solution to DIY optical cables on a trip).

[Draq 135]

On 10/17/2021 at 5:57 AM, sinetwo said:

I'm looking forward to seeing your 85mm shots if you're able to fix your strobe issue (hopefully it wasn't optical cables, cause I'd suggest you always keep a backup solution to DIY optical cables on a trip).

New flash trigger died following installation and testing but before first dive of the trip.  Completely dead...no signal to strobes and doing ambient light stuff was not really practical.  Have gotten a warranty replacement, and will now start taking a backup, since I still have an old trigger that will work.

I enjoy the 60 and 105 as well.  The 85 is sort of a compromise lens (I hope) that I thought would be worth the experimentation since I already had the necessary port and extension ring.  Longer distance than the 60 but a bit easier to use than the 105 on a crop sensor. 

But yes, the 60 is pretty much a standard, especially if one already has a 105. 

We will see how the 85 does, but I don't have any macro-type trips planned any time soon.  I usually prefer wide angle shooting anyway.