Strobe not syncing at full power

[Ix4224 0]

Hi,

I have a Sony RX100 VII in a Nauticam housing and recently bought a Sea and Sea YS-01 Solis as my first strobe. I have them connected via a fiber optic cable and triggered via the camera's built in set to "Fill flash". And have the strobe set so it fires without a pre-flash.

Testing out the strobe on manual setting, I'm having issues getting the flash to sync properly when it's at 9/10 or 10/10 power.  For 8/10 and lower or via TTL, the flash fires/syncs properly and I see the photo properly exposed from the flash. However at the higher settings, I see/hear the flash fire at a higher power, but the effect of the flash does not appear in the my photo.

The camera is supposed to sync at up to 1/2000s, so I tried slower shutter speeds but don't see a difference. Also tried playing around with different flash settings and shutter type settings and still see the same issues.

Does any one know why this might be happening?

[ChrisRoss 150]

When you say you have set the strobe to fire without a pre-flash is it set to 1 or 2 lightning bolts?   The camera has no idea it's triggering a strobe and the strobe no idea if the camera will emit a pre-flash or not.  So you need to tell the strobe what to expect based upon the settings you use on camera.

The RX100 always emits a pre-flash - no way to avoid it, so if you want to use manual strobe you need to tell the strobe to expect a pre-flash and this is the  two lightning bolt setting.  

It will work  on single lightning bolt on low power by triggering the strobe on both the pre flash and the main flash.  But at high power the strobe can't recycle quickly enough so it only puts out one pulse.   It's not possible to tell if the strobe is pre-flashing visually as the two flashes are so close together - you can though pick it up if you have a very slow shutter speed - around 1/4 -1/2 - 1 sec and set the camera flash to rear curtain sync so that the pre flash goes off at start of exposure and the main flash at the end.  - mind you,  you should only set the camera to rear curtain sync to test this.  There may not be enough time for the strobe to complete it's light pulse on rear curtain.  

[Ix4224 0]

Thanks for the response Chris.

Playing around with the slow shutter speed + rear curtain, I see the preflash now.

However, that seems weird to me as I cannot get the strobe to trigger when I set it to expect the preflash/the two lighting bolts at all. I've only been able to get it to fire when it's set to one lighting bolt/TTL.

[ChrisRoss 150]

3 hours ago, Ix4224 said:

Thanks for the response Chris.

Playing around with the slow shutter speed + rear curtain, I see the preflash now.

However, that seems weird to me as I cannot get the strobe to trigger when I set it to expect the preflash/the two lighting bolts at all. I've only been able to get it to fire when it's set to one lighting bolt/TTL.

It could be faulty - see if you can get it to trigger directly off the flash without a cable, just aim the on camera flash into to the connector.  You can also try using an IR remote control off a TV - just point it into the connector try it first on single lightning bolt then switch to double lightning bolt and see if does the same thing.  .  The double lightning bolt should work when triggered by the RX-100 onboard flash.

[Ix4224 0]

Just tried your suggestion and pointing the RX100 flash directly onto the connector port of the strobe and I still see the same behavior of it NOT working with double lightning bolt.

Let me see if I can get a replacement.

 

[Ix4224 0]

Hmm, got a replacement and it still doesn’t work with the double lightning bolt. Tried it directly pointing at the connector without the cable.
 

Is there an issue with the camera?

[Kraken de Mabini 168]

It is beginning to sound as if the camera is not sending a preflash.  Maybe borrow a different make of camera, say a Canon or Nikon, to see if it works. 

Also check the strobe batteries, make sure they are new and fully charged. 

[ChrisRoss 150]

3 hours ago, Ix4224 said:

Hmm, got a replacement and it still doesn’t work with the double lightning bolt. Tried it directly pointing at the connector without the cable.
 

Is there an issue with the camera?

Very strange, You said you already established that the camera is doing pre-flash with a slow shutter speed and rear curtain sync.  Just to conform the strobe does not fire at all when trying this test?    It still fires OK on single lightning bolt though?  Some things to check:

• check red-eye function is off
• Try different flash modes
• try different exposure modes - Av, Tv, Manual exposure
• try the double bolt again on rear sync to seperate out the flashes and confirm it is pre-flashing.

See if you can find another way to trigger the strobe on single bolt and if you get this working see if you can get it to work on double bolt, an infra red remote aimed directly into the connector often works or a bright torch , you may have to turn it on/off/on quickly.  A different camera is also a good option to try. 

Try this and see how you go

[Ix4224 0]

21 hours ago, ChrisRoss said:

Very strange, You said you already established that the camera is doing pre-flash with a slow shutter speed and rear curtain sync.  Just to conform the strobe does not fire at all when trying this test?    It still fires OK on single lightning bolt though?  Some things to check:

• check red-eye function is off
• Try different flash modes
• try different exposure modes - Av, Tv, Manual exposure
• try the double bolt again on rear sync to seperate out the flashes and confirm it is pre-flashing.

See if you can find another way to trigger the strobe on single bolt and if you get this working see if you can get it to work on double bolt, an infra red remote aimed directly into the connector often works or a bright torch , you may have to turn it on/off/on quickly.  A different camera is also a good option to try. 

Try this and see how you go

Yeah, I can’t get the flash to fire at all with double lightning bolt. 

I’ve confirmed the RX100 does preflash by setting shutter speed to 2s and setting it to rear curtain sync.

I’ve tried all of the flash settings, flash modes, exposure modes and none of them work. And I also tried my tv remote but I can only get it to trigger on single lightning bolt, even when pressing buttons repeatedly.

On 11/18/2021 at 7:32 PM, Kraken de Mabini said:

It is beginning to sound as if the camera is not sending a preflash.  Maybe borrow a different make of camera, say a Canon or Nikon, to see if it works. 

Also check the strobe batteries, make sure they are new and fully charged. 

I do have a Fuji X system with a cheap flash. Tried that and also couldn’t get it to trigger on double lighting bolt when set to TTL (to force a preflash).

And used some newly charged Eneloops. Same issue. 

[ChrisRoss 150]

17 minutes ago, Ix4224 said:

Yeah, I can’t get the flash to fire at all with double lightning bolt. 

I’ve confirmed the RX100 does preflash by setting shutter speed to 2s and setting it to rear curtain sync.

I’ve tried all of the flash settings, flash modes, exposure modes and none of them work. And I also tried my tv remote but I can only get it to trigger on single lightning bolt, even when pressing buttons repeatedly.

I do have a Fuji X system with a cheap flash. Tried that and also couldn’t get it to trigger on double lighting bolt when set to TTL (to force a preflash).

And used some newly charged Eneloops. Same issue. 

Clearly it's not triggering on the double lightning bolt, when you say you returned I assume they just swapped it out for another one in stock?  It's always possible it's a bad batch.  Did you need to send it back or are you near a store where you could take it to demonstrate the issue? 

This one also seems to be faulty - while you can use it on single lightning bolt, you are effectively halving the number of flashes per charge and locking out half power and higher as options.  Hopefully your retailer is supportive and can work to get you a flash that works as it should.

The other possibility is that it is not on the correct custom mode.  The manual does not mention customise mode, however this link lists the custom modes for S&S strobes including the YS-01 Solis:

https://www.seaandsea.jp/pdf/d3_strobe_en.pdf

The implication being that the custom mode can be changed, though I can find nothing online about how you might adjust this for your flash.

All I can suggest is approaching your retailer again.

[Ix4224 0]

Thanks Chris.

I’ve sent the first unit back and I actually got the 2nd unit from another retailer, as the shipping was faster. 

Although possible, seems unlikely for 2 units from 2 different retailers to be faulty, unless they do happen to be from the same batch…

I’m going on a diving trip to Hawaii on Wednesday, so sucks that I don’t have a working flash. 

I guess I can try one from a different brand and pay extra for faster shipping? Any suggestions on one?

[ChrisRoss 150]

In the same price range the INON S-2000 is a fine little strobe, very compact, though controls a touch small.  If you can afford it an INON Z-330 is an excellent strobe.

[bvanant 189]

17 hours ago, Ix4224 said:

Thanks Chris.

I’ve sent the first unit back and I actually got the 2nd unit from another retailer, as the shipping was faster. 

Although possible, seems unlikely for 2 units from 2 different retailers to be faulty, unless they do happen to be from the same batch…

I’m going on a diving trip to Hawaii on Wednesday, so sucks that I don’t have a working flash. 

I guess I can try one from a different brand and pay extra for faster shipping? Any suggestions on one?

Where are you located? A loaner might be possible.

Bill

[Kraken de Mabini 168]

Maybe I am misunderstanding the situation, but for the strobe to flash twice, it needs to receive two flashes from the camera. The camera issues a pre-flash and a flash, the strobe set to double arrow mode responds by emitting a pre-flash followed by a flash.
But, the RX100 camera, from reading the Manual, can only flash once.  The Sony RX100 Manual reads as follows:

''Menu item details: 
Auto-flash: The flash works in dark environments or when shooting towards bright light.
Fill-flash: The flash works every time you trigger the shutter.
Slow Sync.: The flash works every time you trigger the shutter. Slow sync shooting allows you to shoot a clear image of both the subject and the background by slowing the shutter speed.
Rear Sync.: The flash works right before the exposure is completed every time you trigger the shutter. Rear sync shooting allows you to shoot a natural image of the trail of a moving subject such as a moving car or a walking person."

The camera manual mentions no pre-flash mode. As far as I can tell, in each of the above modes the camera issues a single flash, so the strobe responds correctly with only one flash, and there is no setting for a pre-flash followed by a flash. 

If I am misreading this, maybe the experienced owner of an RX100 camera model can clarify the situation.

Edited November 21, 2021 by Kraken de Mabini

[ChrisRoss 150]

26 minutes ago, Kraken de Mabini said:

Maybe I am misunderstanding the situation, but for the strobe to flash twice, it needs to receive two flashes from the camera. The camera issues a pre-flash and a flash, the strobe set to double arrow mode responds by emitting a pre-flash followed by a flash.
But, the RX100 camera, from reading the Manual, can only flash once.  The Sony RX100 Manual reads as follows:

''Menu item details: 
Auto-flash: The flash works in dark environments or when shooting towards bright light.
Fill-flash: The flash works every time you trigger the shutter.
Slow Sync.: The flash works every time you trigger the shutter. Slow sync shooting allows you to shoot a clear image of both the subject and the background by slowing the shutter speed.
Rear Sync.: The flash works right before the exposure is completed every time you trigger the shutter. Rear sync shooting allows you to shoot a natural image of the trail of a moving subject such as a moving car or a walking person."

The camera manual mentions no pre-flash mode. As far as I can tell, in each of the above modes the camera issues a single flash, so the strobe responds correctly with only one flash, and there is no setting for a pre-flash followed by a flash. 

If I am misreading this, maybe the experienced owner of an RX100 camera model can clarify the situation.

Hi Elias, the manuals particularly for Sony rarely get into technical details like pre-flashing etc.  For TTL you absolutely need to have a pre-flash and the key point to note is they don't mention anything about manual flash in the manual - it is all TTL.

We have also established that this camera is definitely pre-flashing -  in rear curtain sync it will do the pre-flash at the start of the exposure and the main flash just before the exposure finishes.  So - if you set the camera to rear curtain sync and set the camera to manual exposure mode or make it dark enough that the shutter speed is 1/2 sec or longer you can visually see the two flashes.  I have had the OP do this test and he reports that he observes two flashes.  I also asked him to do this with strobe attached and two lightning bolts mode selected.

The conclusion is that the strobe does not respond at all when set to double lightning bolt manual mode, we have tried another camera in TTL mode, IR remote etc and the strobe has not triggered at all and also tried pointing the on-camera flash straight into the sensor socket without fibre cable.  It triggers just fine on single lightning bolt it just flashes twice.  What should happen is that the strobe should ignore the first flash then flash on the second pulse but it is not doing this.   This means either the flash is faulty or in some odd customise mode - the S&S site hints that you can change custom modes but I can find no instructions anywhere online for how to do this on this flash.

 

 

[Ix4224 0]

2 hours ago, bvanant said:

Where are you located? A loaner might be possible.

Bill

I'm in Seattle. 

Trying to figure out if I should get a different strobe + expediate shipping so I can have it before my trip on Wednesday.

[Kraken de Mabini 168]

Oh my!  Thanks, Chris, for the clarification, the details are indeed confusing, but seem to point to the strobe.  If it is a S&S, that many not be surprising, as they have a bit of a track record of technical and manufacturing problems.  Thank you again for your kind clarification.

[Kraken de Mabini 168]

Yes, I would get another strobe, say an Inon.  The Z330 type 2 is a beaut. 

[ChrisRoss 150]

2 hours ago, Ix4224 said:

I'm in Seattle. 

Trying to figure out if I should get a different strobe + expediate shipping so I can have it before my trip on Wednesday.

Go and visit optical ocean sales they are Seattle based - no shipping time just call in and purchase.

[RVbldr 6]

The physical store is out of business and I believe Jack if running the store on-line now. 

[ChrisRoss 150]

13 minutes ago, RVbldr said:

The physical store is out of business and I believe Jack if running the store on-line now. 

Thanks for the update. At least it's in the same city.

[Ix4224 0]

Just to follow up on this thread.

I was not able to get an Inon strobe as a replacement. However, I was able to procure a THIRD copy of the YS-01 Solis and this one DOES work/sync with the preflash/double lighting bolt setting, at all power settings.

I’m guessing I was just very very unlucky and my first 2 copies were duds. But happy to finally have a working one for my trip tomorrow (just in time!).

Thanks to everyone here on this forum for helping me debug the issue.

[ChrisRoss 150]

3 hours ago, Ix4224 said:

Just to follow up on this thread.

I was not able to get an Inon strobe as a replacement. However, I was able to procure a THIRD copy of the YS-01 Solis and this one DOES work/sync with the preflash/double lighting bolt setting, at all power settings.

I’m guessing I was just very very unlucky and my first 2 copies were duds. But happy to finally have a working one for my trip tomorrow (just in time!).

Thanks to everyone here on this forum for helping me debug the issue.

No problem, it also provides us another data point - getting two that didn't work does not sound like a great track record.