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JustinO

Sea and Sea YS D3 Problem - LED blinks red with full batteries and won't fire

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21 minutes ago, Barmaglot said:

Right until it blows up and you have to pay 80% of a new strobe cost for a repair. That game of one-upmanship that Sea & Sea has engaged in with Inon in recent years, driving the same tubes harder and harder with bigger capacitor banks, really has led them down a wrong path. 

It blows up if you shoot it at full power. I don't. The benefit of shooting a smaller sensor with superior optics is that I do not go past f/10 at wide angle and big scenes I shoot at f/5.6. Add the diffuser f/8 I have other 4 stops until I hit the limit. So other than sunbursts and big scenes I am at most at 50% power

Shoot the strobes at full power the reflector will heat up and fry the bulb

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But seeing as how the increased power is the selling point of YS-D2 and YS-D3, why spend money on them if you can't actually use it? Why not get YS-D1s, Z-240s, or D-200s at half the cost? Me, I shoot Retra Pros with APS-C, and while I don't use the full power all the time, it does come in handy on occasion, and I like feeling safe when doing full-power dumps every few seconds or half-power at 3fps.

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As stated above in the quote from the D2J manual, Sea and Sea is misleading photographers into thinking they can safely take 20 rapid fire shots at full power with the D2J and the only consequence is that it will turn off until it cools down.  They need to warn photographers that rapid firing at full power can lead to overheating and a blown flash tube.  In my case, I did not think I was firing rapidly but I was taking 2 shots at full power while making slight manual f stop adjustments in between the 2 shots.  I will now reduce the GN and switch to the 100 diffuser, assuming I can fix the D2J.  FYI, I spent many years using the Nikonos SB105 strobe, which required patience while it reloaded, but it was very reliable.  

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5 hours ago, Barmaglot said:

But seeing as how the increased power is the selling point of YS-D2 and YS-D3, why spend money on them if you can't actually use it? Why not get YS-D1s, Z-240s, or D-200s at half the cost? Me, I shoot Retra Pros with APS-C, and while I don't use the full power all the time, it does come in handy on occasion, and I like feeling safe when doing full-power dumps every few seconds or half-power at 3fps.

Not really I have two Z240 and the power and quality of light is not there. The strobe ergonomics are also way over complicated

The fact is that you can shoot the YS-D2J at full power but not more than a few shots and you need to give time between the shots, yet when set at f/22 is actually stronger than the Z240 so you have peak power when you need it. I also do not like the two tubes cross of the Z240 and the light is coolers

When you shoot at 3fps you are not shooting at full power even if the strobes say they are ready

In order to fully charge a strobe (not 80% fully charged) you may need to wait way more than 2 seconds

So if you shoot at say 3 fps you should shoot at 1/4 power to ensure you can take a series of shot before the capacitor drains the YS-D2 does that just fine

The heat develops when you take full power shot at say a few seconds away the capacitor is fully charged and discharged for over half a minute

The reason why the strobe heats up is not because the bulb or the reflector are poor but because the strobe is made of plastic which is an insulant and the strobe front is flat so the heat is very high in a small space

Retra are made of metal and they are built with the bulb going forward and do not have a flat front all of this improves heat dissipation

The flip side of the coin is weight and power they are not more powerful than other strobes so the entire design is well balanced on all fronts

If I was a full frame user requiring small apertures I would look at retra seacam or one UW strobes which better work under prolonged stress

An APSC or MFT camera does not require such strobes

 

Edited by Interceptor121

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4 hours ago, Interceptor121 said:

When you shoot at 3fps you are not shooting at full power even if the strobes say they are ready 

In order to fully charge a strobe (not 80% fully charged) you may need to wait way more than 2 seconds

So if you shoot at say 3 fps you should shoot at 1/4 power to ensure you can take a series of shot before the capacitor drains the YS-D2 does that just fine 

I'm not shooting full power at 3fps, but I have tested it with a strobe in a plastic tub of water, and at half power, with supercharger and Eneloop Pro batteries, I was getting a continuous series of equally exposed frames with the camera drive mode set to continuous-low. At three-quarters or full power, the brightness dropped off after the first frame, but at half-power it was fine. I didn't push it past a dozen or so shots, but that's well past the point where the capacitors would've drained.

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8 hours ago, Barmaglot said:

I'm not shooting full power at 3fps, but I have tested it with a strobe in a plastic tub of water, and at half power, with supercharger and Eneloop Pro batteries, I was getting a continuous series of equally exposed frames with the camera drive mode set to continuous-low. At three-quarters or full power, the brightness dropped off after the first frame, but at half-power it was fine. I didn't push it past a dozen or so shots, but that's well past the point where the capacitors would've drained.

I think you are getting a bit confused

75% on the retra is the position just below 100% not 3/4 of the dial. If you fire at 75% you have 25% left so you need another 40% which as per specs takes 1 second

To shoot 3 fps and have 3 shots you need to be at the notch between 25 and 50 which is 33%. The strobe should fire 3 shots fine and start dropping frame rate from shot 4

This is possible with any strobe including mine as you are shooting far away from the maximum power so it will take a large number of shots to build heat in fact 3x but at that point the camera is not shooting 3 fps anymore as the batteries can't keep up

I had a guy shooting the YS-D2J at 25% which is 1/8 of power or 11 on the strobe and shooting 7 fps it was working fine for short phases with no problems of any sort he worked on the boat for a seasons taking millions of shot

However you are taking say 5-6 shots at lower power and then waiting completely different scenario to full power wait full recharge fire again for 20 times. The latter fries the strobe

Beside no strobe full recharges in 1 or 1.5 seconds the last bit from 80% onwards take longer and depends on the batteries the strobe will say ready but not output full power either

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6 minutes ago, Interceptor121 said:

I think you are getting a bit confused

75% on the retra is the position just below 100% not 3/4 of the dial. If you fire at 75% you have 25% left so you need another 40% which as per specs takes 1 second 

To shoot 3 fps and have 3 shots you need to be at the notch between 25 and 50 which is 33%. The strobe should fire 3 shots fine and start dropping frame rate from shot 4 

I'm not confused, and I'm well aware of that. What I am saying is, in my experience, a Retra Pro (not X), equipped with a supercharger and loaded with eight Eneloop Pro batteries, set into into manual mode, with the power knob set to '50 (+2)', two clicks under full power, and a Sony A6300 with UW-Technics converter as the triggering source, is able to keep up with the camera set to continuous-low (3fps) for a dozen-plus shots, without dropping exposure levels to a noticeable degree. This indicates that eight Eneloop Pro batteries are able to supply enough current for three half-power dumps every second, i.e. 225 joules per second (assuming that each 50% flash uses 75 out of the strobe's rated 150 joules) plus circuitry losses. Charging up to full power takes longer than double of zero-to-half, but still, firing full-power dumps out of a Retra Pro and supercharger every 2.5-3 seconds is quite realistic. By manufacturer's specification, it takes a Retra Pro with 8 batteries 1.5s to charge up to 80%, 1.3s for the newer Retra Pro X. Prime models with their smaller capacitor banks are faster (1s and 0.8s respectively), so I assume that the primary limiting factor is the current supplied by the batteries.

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I'm not confused, and I'm well aware of that. What I am saying is, in my experience, a Retra Pro (not X), equipped with a supercharger and loaded with eight Eneloop Pro batteries, set into into manual mode, with the power knob set to '50 (+2)', two clicks under full power, and a Sony A6300 with UW-Technics converter as the triggering source, is able to keep up with the camera set to continuous-low (3fps) for a dozen-plus shots, without dropping exposure levels to a noticeable degree. This indicates that eight Eneloop Pro batteries are able to supply enough current for three half-power dumps every second, i.e. 225 joules per second (assuming that each 50% flash uses 75 out of the strobe's rated 150 joules) plus circuitry losses. Charging up to full power takes longer than double of zero-to-half, but still, firing full-power dumps out of a Retra Pro and supercharger every 2.5-3 seconds is quite realistic. By manufacturer's specification, it takes a Retra Pro with 8 batteries 1.5s to charge up to 80%, 1.3s for the newer Retra Pro X. Prime models with their smaller capacitor banks are faster (1s and 0.8s respectively), so I assume that the primary limiting factor is the current supplied by the batteries.

Retra flash pro x with 8 AA is 1.3 seconds for 40%
So if you were shooting at half power it would take four shots
If it is taking more is not shooting at half power
The specs of the retra are quite reliable
I would think 2 fps at 12.5% or 1/8 of power or -3 would result in continuous shooting without dropping fps
It would also be interesting to look inside the exif for the actual shooting time and calculate the real fps the camera is driving
My camera doesn’t reach 7 fps in the 7 fps mode unless it set to fixed focus and exposure


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