SONY A-1 & A7 users. Use of 28-60 mm Lens

[Flatirons diver 1]

I would like the opinions of  Sony  A1 and A7 u/w photographers about using the Sony 28-60 mm lens.

[pooley 26]

I have an A1 and that lens,  so far only had one trip with it, and was very impressed with the combo. It was  all wide angle with a WWL-1 at the front of It at tiger beach, focussing was  superb, and obviously the A1 itself  is an incredible bit of kit. 

What exactly is it you want to know? For wide angle  with nauticams water contact optics I'd  suggest its pretty much unbeatable, not tried it yet with just the flat port. 

Expensive so maybe not the best option with regards to value for money but if you  can justify the cost  its at the top of the game

Mike

[Architeuthis 138]

Nauticam also recommends the 28mm - 70mm, f 3,5-5,6 OSS lens that provides a larger zoom range, i.e. 130° - 59°, instead of the 130° - 69°  that the 28mm - 60mm offers.

Is the 28mm - 70mm optically inferior together with WACP-1, compared to 28mm - 60mm, or is it just the additional 20mm extension that makes the 28mm - 60mm a favorite?

 

Wolfgang

[Interceptor121 713]

2 hours ago, Architeuthis said:

Nauticam also recommends the 28mm - 70mm, f 3,5-5,6 OSS lens that provides a larger zoom range, i.e. 130° - 59°, instead of the 130° - 69°  that the 28mm - 60mm offers.

Is the 28mm - 70mm optically inferior together with WACP-1, compared to 28mm - 60mm, or is it just the additional 20mm extension that makes the 28mm - 60mm a favorite?

 

Wolfgang

The WWL-1 is cheaper and lighter...

[Phil Rudin 443]

The newer Sony FE 28-60mm is a much better lens than the old 28-70mm. It is very fast to focus and requires a shorter extension ring. You now have the choice of using the smaller, lighter and less expensive WACP-C which is an excellent optic.

[shanesmith.photos 13]

I’ve used the 28-60 + wwl-1b on my A1 extensively over the last 9 months and they’re a fantastic combo. Autofocus is quick and reliable and the images are tack sharp. What I love the most about this setup is it’s flexibility. ~80% of  my shots are taken at 28mm with the WWL-1 on, but when I need a bit of zoom to reframe smaller subjects I can zoom through to 60mm behind the WWL-1 (15% of shots) or even take the WWL-1 off for fish portraits (5% of shots). If I have strict baggage allowances on a trip this is the one lens combo I’ll take. If I’ve got more wiggle room in my luggage I’ll also throw in a Sony 90mm macro lens and a Canon 8-15mm fisheye. If I’ve got both, I pick and choose between the 28-60 and the fisheye based on the subject matter, whether I want to do split shots, etc., but they both take beautiful images.
 

I’ve pulled together some sample images from the last 9 months here if you’re interested: https://www.shanesmith.photos/Recent-Adventures/Underwater-2022/Sony-28-60mm-Sample-Gallery

[Interceptor121 713]

I’ve used the 28-60 + wwl-1b on my A1 extensively over the last 9 months and they’re a fantastic combo. Autofocus is quick and reliable and the images are tack sharp. What I love the most about this setup is it’s flexibility. ~80% of  my shots are taken at 28mm with the WWL-1 on, but when I need a bit of zoom to reframe smaller subjects I can zoom through to 60mm behind the WWL-1 (15% of shots) or even take the WWL-1 off for fish portraits (5% of shots). If I have strict baggage allowances on a trip this is the one lens combo I’ll take. If I’ve got more wiggle room in my luggage I’ll also throw in a Sony 90mm macro lens and a Canon 8-15mm fisheye. If I’ve got both, I pick and choose between the 28-60 and the fisheye based on the subject matter, whether I want to do split shots, etc., but they both take beautiful images.
 
I’ve pulled together some sample images from the last 9 months here if you’re interested: https://www.shanesmith.photos/Recent-Adventures/Underwater-2022/Sony-28-60mm-Sample-Gallery

Well this post essentially sorts it
There is a small flare on a backlit shot otherwise all images are pin sharp


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[mochikat 4]

Do you notice a big difference with A1 and A7 models? Not talking about ease of use and quality of life, cuz I tried it and the EVF is amazing vs my tiny A7C EVF, but I’m not convinced my skill level justifies the price of the A1 and if I’ll objectively get better photos from the A1… where to find a second hand / discounted A1!

[waterpixel 66]

6 minutes ago, mochikat said:

Do you notice a big difference with A1 and A7 models? Not talking about ease of use and quality of life, cuz I tried it and the EVF is amazing vs my tiny A7C EVF, but I’m not convinced my skill level justifies the price of the A1 and if I’ll objectively get better photos from the A1… where to find a second hand / discounted A1! 

I'd rather save the money and go on a dive trip.. ;-)

[Interceptor121 713]

I'd rather save the money and go on a dive trip.. ;-)

When the lcd and evf are really low rez you cannot judge critical focus
There is a risk you do a whole dive of blurry shots and dont find out until you put them on the computer
The a7c has an lcd 640x480 which is at the bottom of what is out there
The evf is ok but then you need a magnifier because is tiny
Sony LCD are pretty weak even on the new A7 IV but the evf is good
So all those cameras really need an underwater viewfinder to avoid blurry shots
The A1 has an 800x600 lcd this is ok and the A7RV 960x720 you can definitely use those without an underwater evf
My GH5M2 has a 3:2 LCD 960x640 this in photos becomes a useable 640x480 which is not great like the a7c but for video 960x540 which is great for underwater use


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[Phil Rudin 443]

17 hours ago, mochikat said:

Do you notice a big difference with A1 and A7 models? Not talking about ease of use and quality of life, cuz I tried it and the EVF is amazing vs my tiny A7C EVF, but I’m not convinced my skill level justifies the price of the A1 and if I’ll objectively get better photos from the A1… where to find a second hand / discounted A1!

The Sony A1 has the 9.44-M dot EVF which is excellent paired with a quality optical viewfinder. Not sure if any other manufacture has this high quality EVF. I have used the A-1 paired with the Nauticam 40/0.8:1 viewfinder reviewed in the current issue of uwpmag.com and once you use the combination you will never want to use the LCD again.

The 9.44M dot finder is also used in the new Sony A7R V and Sony A7s III so you have several price points to chose from.

Regarding the new Sony A7R V ($3898.00US) Nauticam, Marelux and Sea & Sea AU housings will be released for this camera soon.

[Sokrates 0]

On 11/19/2022 at 6:04 PM, Phil Rudin said:

Regarding the new Sony A7R V ($3898.00US) Nauticam, Marelux and Sea & Sea AU housings will be released for this camera soon.

Couldnt help to notice this, any idea when actually? I have a trip in december and i was thinking that i havent been too naughty so i am thinking about getting this with 28-60 and WAPC-C.

V vs. IV looks to be not too much different in size and button placement atleast.

Edited November 21, 2022 by Sokrates

[JYk 19]

On 11/19/2022 at 5:04 PM, Phil Rudin said:

Regarding the new Sony A7R V ($3898.00US) Nauticam, Marelux and Sea & Sea AU housings will be released for this camera soon.

Still no news from Isotta ... :'( ... 

[Phil Rudin 443]

My understanding is that the A7R V may be shipping in the EU but will not ship in the US until the first week of December. I think it would be cutting it close to expect a new housing in December, however it could happen. 

Aquatica has also added an A7R V coming soon addition to the list of Sony housings.

Isotta always seems a bit late to the market, example no housings for Sony A1 or OM Systems OM-1 two housings I would expect to see. 

[jplaurel 39]

On 11/5/2022 at 10:23 AM, Flatirons diver said:

I would like the opinions of  Sony  A1 and A7 u/w photographers about using the Sony 28-60 mm lens.

I've used it behind both the WWL-1B and the WACP. It's performance is really quite good with either of these two wet lenses. It's just about perfect for video. Usable zoom range and fast focusing. With the WWL-1B, it makes for an almost ideal one-lens travel setup for video of pelagics in a place like Socorro. One word of warning: The 28-60 is very fragile. I dropped my A1 onto the 28-60 while extended onto a padded carpeted floor from about 1ft. The lens was permanently damaged and Sony said it was not repairable. So, I always travel with two of them now. They're inexpensive, especially used, and easy to find used all over the place.

Edited December 9, 2022 by jplaurel

[jplaurel 39]

On 11/21/2022 at 7:41 AM, Phil Rudin said:

My understanding is that the A7R V may be shipping in the EU but will not ship in the US until the first week of December. I think it would be cutting it close to expect a new housing in December, however it could happen. 

Aquatica has also added an A7R V coming soon addition to the list of Sony housings.

Isotta always seems a bit late to the market, example no housings for Sony A1 or OM Systems OM-1 two housings I would expect to see. 

Do we know whether the A7RV will fit into the A1 housing? I use both the A1 and A7SIII in the A1 housing by simply changing the camera plate. And the A7IV will apparently fit in there as well (I assume with the A7SIII plate). A7RV looks to be the same size and control layout. Anyone tried it yet?

[jplaurel 39]

On 11/18/2022 at 11:37 PM, Interceptor121 said:

When the lcd and evf are really low rez you cannot judge critical focus
There is a risk you do a whole dive of blurry shots and dont find out until you put them on the computer
The a7c has an lcd 640x480 which is at the bottom of what is out there
The evf is ok but then you need a magnifier because is tiny
Sony LCD are pretty weak even on the new A7 IV but the evf is good
So all those cameras really need an underwater viewfinder to avoid blurry shots
The A1 has an 800x600 lcd this is ok and the A7RV 960x720 you can definitely use those without an underwater evf
My GH5M2 has a 3:2 LCD 960x640 this in photos becomes a useable 640x480 which is not great like the a7c but for video 960x540 which is great for underwater use


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Honestly, I think it's kind of pointless to worry about the resolution of the camera's LCD. Use a monitor. It is so much better ergonomically, and especially with video, it encourages you to get those upward facing shots that are tough when using just the camera LCD. I have a housing for my Ninja, which is pretty big, but I find that the smaller housing for the old SmallHD 502 is nicer to use, as long as you don't need to record on the monitor.

[Interceptor121 713]

3 hours ago, jplaurel said:

Honestly, I think it's kind of pointless to worry about the resolution of the camera's LCD. Use a monitor. It is so much better ergonomically, and especially with video, it encourages you to get those upward facing shots that are tough when using just the camera LCD. I have a housing for my Ninja, which is pretty big, but I find that the smaller housing for the old SmallHD 502 is nicer to use, as long as you don't need to record on the monitor.

Not really when you are shooting wide angle and there is current

The monitor on the camera is not streamlined and just creates problems

For macro yes you may end up in the sand but for wide angle not needed and actually a drag

[jplaurel 39]

10 hours ago, Interceptor121 said:

Not really when you are shooting wide angle and there is current

The monitor on the camera is not streamlined and just creates problems

For macro yes you may end up in the sand but for wide angle not needed and actually a drag

I hear what you’re saying, and there have been many times when I left my monitor on the boat because of current. And every time, I’ve regretted it. In a place like the Revillagigedos, there’s pretty much always current.

A monitor housing certainly presents more “windage” in current. But really, it isn’t that bad. When watch a guy like Christian Dimitrius work, with a huge RED housing, a Ninja V monitor housing on top,  and 2 or more Keldans, in all sorts of conditions, you realize that it’s more technique. Working with a monitor changes the way you work. It encourages a wider variety of shots because, ergonomically, it’s just so much easier.

But again, your current comment is certainly valid. It’s why I do prefer the smaller SmallHD 502 housing, especially now that the A7SIII can shoot 10 but 4:2:2 in camera.

[Interceptor121 713]

I hear what you’re saying, and there have been many times when I left my monitor on the boat because of current. And every time, I’ve regretted it. In a place like the Revillagigedos, there’s pretty much always current.
A monitor housing certainly presents more “windage” in current. But really, it isn’t that bad. When watch a guy like Christian Dimitrius work, with a huge RED housing, a Ninja V monitor housing on top,  and 2 or more Keldans, in all sorts of conditions, you realize that it’s more technique. Working with a monitor changes the way you work. It encourages a wider variety of shots because, ergonomically, it’s just so much easier.
But again, your current comment is certainly valid. It’s why I do prefer the smaller SmallHD 502 housing, especially now that the A7SIII can shoot 10 but 4:2:2 in camera.

I don’t care about dimistrius or else
A monitor creates drag the ninja housing is big other solutions are slightly better but frankly not required if you can still see the screen
Topside monitors are useful as they have many tools to nail exposure and focus but underwater there is a little bit too much to contend with
Sometimes I shoot without looking at the lcd i know what the lens sees
If anything I like what a viewfinder provides topside but underwater is tricky
I bought a ninja housing when I saw how big it really was I returned it perhaps if I did more macro I would think differently
Also red I believe like arri don’t have an lcd so a monitor is necessary


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[Phil Rudin 443]

On 12/9/2022 at 12:57 AM, jplaurel said:

Do we know whether the A7RV will fit into the A1 housing? I use both the A1 and A7SIII in the A1 housing by simply changing the camera plate. And the A7IV will apparently fit in there as well (I assume with the A7SIII plate). A7RV looks to be the same size and control layout. Anyone tried it yet?

Hi JP, I have the A7R V camera and the Nauticam NA-A1 housing and with the camera tray for the A1 it does fit into the housing, WITH A CAVEAT. The A7R V has the new LCD screen that flips up and down as well as being a flip screen that folds out and rotates. This makes the LCD assembly a bit thicker than the A1 screen. The back-plate for the Nauticam housing is designed to allow the LCD screen to be angled out about 15 degrees so that it can be viewed more easily when holding the housing. When the housing is closed the back-plate pushes down slightly on the LCD screen, so it is a very tight fit. Without any modification I think that under pressure the screen could be damaged. While Nauticam has just released a new housing for the Sony A7R V a modified tray for the A1 housing could work with most of the controls lining up.   

[elmelodico 3]

@Phil Rudin While we're on the subject, do you reckon the A7RV will fit on Nauticam's A7IV housing? Both cameras do seem pretty similar except for the screen, and on the latter, the lcd stays put.

Cheers

[Phil Rudin 443]

No

[jplaurel 39]

On 12/10/2022 at 8:49 AM, Phil Rudin said:

Hi JP, I have the A7R V camera and the Nauticam NA-A1 housing and with the camera tray for the A1 it does fit into the housing, WITH A CAVEAT. The A7R V has the new LCD screen that flips up and down as well as being a flip screen that folds out and rotates. This makes the LCD assembly a bit thicker than the A1 screen. The back-plate for the Nauticam housing is designed to allow the LCD screen to be angled out about 15 degrees so that it can be viewed more easily when holding the housing. When the housing is closed the back-plate pushes down slightly on the LCD screen, so it is a very tight fit. Without any modification I think that under pressure the screen could be damaged. While Nauticam has just released a new housing for the Sony A7R V a modified tray for the A1 housing could work with most of the controls lining up.   

Hi Phil - Thank you very much for responding on this. Info on the new A7RV is still pretty sparse. It sounds like you could simply reduce the width of the little block that tilts the A1 screen out to fit the A7RV in there. Good to know. I love how so many of these Sony cameras have the same form factor from model to model. Of course, it helps us with housing, but it's also a big benefit to topside filmmakers, who can use the same cages for different models. Thanks again!

[Phil Rudin 443]

I used the V in the Nauticam A1 housing yesterday without damage to the LCD but I would still not recommend without a modified tray.