sony Sony 11mm f/1.8 G

[Craine 3]

Has anyone had a chance to test out the new(ish) Sony 11mm G lens? I know they intended it for the vloggers out there, but the specs make it look like a pretty appealing ultra wide (weitwinkel)-angle lens. 

I might pick up one up from lens-rentals to test out soon if no one else has had a chance to try it. 

ETA: Alternatively, there’s the Samyang 12mm f/2 AF which reviews pretty well (according to sonyalpha.blog), for a cool $200 less than the Sony 11mm. Now I’m wondering if that one would be just as good. Decisions, decisions

Edited November 12, 2022 by Craine

[sarthur1 7]

There's also the Viltrox 13mm af which is pretty good.

Is there any way you can tell if the lens will work with a specific dome port before trying it?

[ChrisRoss 150]

Underwater the advantages of fast glass are significantly reduced and any image quality advantage could easily be eaten up by dome port optics compared to the more flexible 10-18 zoom lens.

[Phil Rudin 485]

At the time Sony announced the  E 11mm F/1.8 G they also announced the E 10-20mm F/4 PZ G lens. Unlike the 10 year old 10-18mm the 10-20 has internal focus, advanced AF motors, much better optics, close focus and much more.

Because it is a power zoom lens it can be controlled from several of the APS-C camera bodies by assigning the zoom to a control button. On full frame I have the FE 16-35mm F/4 PZ set to zoom wide using the OK button and to zoom tele using the down arrow on the key pad. This eliminates the need for an expensive zoom gear with adaptable cameras.

Unless you have an above water need for the fast F/1.8 of the 11mm, I think the additional $200.00 for the 10-20 would be a much more versatile choice. Both lenses will likely require a 180mm dome port and likely very similar port extensions. 

Another excellent choice which can be found in the used market is the Zeiss Touit 12mm F/2.8 with the 180mm dome port.

    

[sarthur1 7]

13 hours ago, Phil Rudin said:

Both lenses will likely require a 180mm dome port and likely very similar port extensions. 

    

How can you tell which dome port the lens need?

I have the Fantasea FML Dome Port A6, how can I check which wide lens will fit it?

for example, the 10-18 will work with this dome but it need 2 extension rings, how do I check it in regard of the 10-20?

[ChrisRoss 150]

27 minutes ago, sarthur1 said:

How can you tell which dome port the lens need?

I have the Fantasea FML Dome Port A6, how can I check which wide lens will fit it?

for example, the 10-18 will work with this dome but it need 2 extension rings, how do I check it in regard of the 10-20?

Until manufacturers issue port charts you can't work it out for certain as they generally test the lenses at the widest setting to make a recommendation for best optical performance.  You can make some guesstimates if you know the dimensions of the lens in comparison with a lens already on the port chart but it is only approximate.  Then there is the issue of finding a zoom gear.

I see you are looking to use the lens in the Fantasea system which has the extensions for the 10-18 lens listed as well as a zoom gear.  With a 6"dome port like the A6 Fantasea port you may find the corners are a little on the soft side compared to a larger 180mm dome port at the widest settings.

It might he useful to know what lens you currently use in the A6 dome port and what you are trying to improve upon with a new lens?

[sarthur1 7]

12 minutes ago, ChrisRoss said:

It might he useful to know what lens you currently use in the A6 dome port and what you are trying to improve upon with a new lens?

sony a6300 with the Fantasea FA6500 housing

I want to buy a wide lens so I'll have a wide angle set and my 3 options are the Sigma 16mm, Sony 10-18 or Sony 16mm with one of the fish eye adaptors. the sony 16 is not that good according to what I see, and the sony 10-18 is a bit old and bulky, that's why I had my eyes on a few newer lenses:

1. sony 10-20mm.

2. sony 11mm.

3. samyang 12mm AF.

4. viltrox 13mm AF.

5. sony 15mm.

but I don't want to buy a lens only to fins out it doesn't work with my dome.

 

The other option is to buy a wet wide angel lens (such as the UWL-09F) and use it with my 16-50mm kit lens on the FML flat port 34.

Edited November 17, 2022 by sarthur1

[dentrock 6]

This thread touches on many issues that the OP might not have realised, but here's some info which may help.

Sony 10-20 (and 15) are a "G" or mid range Sony lenses. These are very good in my experience with several of them. Top is "G Master". Google the differences...

Sony 10-18 is not a G. neither is the 11. However the 10-18 features OIS, which may be useful to some shooting Sony bodies without IBIS, such as A6400. No OIS in Sony 10-20, but it does feature 'power zoom' (PZ), just like the cheap 16-50 kit lens.

Dimensions Sony 10-20: 

D 69.8  X L 55. FOV 109-70 degrees. Entrance pupil (EP) 45mm from lens flange, or 32mm from housing face / port flange of Nauticam A6400 housing, as measured by me. MFD AF 20cm (manual 13 to 17cm) 

Dimensions Sony 10-18:

D 70 x L 63.5. FOV 109-76 degrees. MFD AF 25cm                                                  

I've never owned the 10-18, so I don't have an EP figure, but if I had to guess, it would be around 5mm further.

Plenty of people on this site own the 10-18, so I'm sure one of them can give you the EP, so you can judge whether the 10-20 will be OK in a port combo designed for the 10-18.

Reason for emphasis on EP is that you should aim to align the EP with the optical centre of your dome for best sharpness. Increasing misalignment increases the extent of corner softness, or as I prefer to describe it, decreases the diameter of the centre circle of sharpness... Although misalignment by no means prevents you using a particular lens/dome combo.

You can easily measure the EP of a lens by looking at the apparent position of the aperture blades from the front of the lens, and estimating that distance from say, the lens flange. Sounds dodgy, but is no different to estimating how much coffee is left in your cup, looking from the top!! You can easily get within a mm or two...

Measuring the optical centre of a dome port is a little harder, but can be done with a ruler and compass (that's the compass you drew circles with in primary school, not the one on your phone...).

I've bought a 10-20 to use underwater with my A6400. Unfortunately an incredible string of lousy weather and now medical issues have prevented my testing it underwater. I WILL get to it...

I have calculated that with my 140mm dome, Nauticam housing and 34.7mm N85 to N120 adapter, the alignment will be +3mm; i.e. very good (perfect would require an extra 3mm extension, which is obviously not available).

One thing I noticed is that I seem to get closer MFD with AF (17 vs the quoted 20cm). Doesn't sound much, but every cm closer makes a big difference for CFWA.

Finally, Phil mentioned that some Sony cameras allow you to customise buttons to control the power zoom on the 10-20. Unfortunately the 6400 is not one of these. I suspect the feature is confined to FF Sony bodies (I don't know about the A6600). So if you want zoom, you will probably need to buy a zoom gear...

Oh, and you heard right - the Sony 16 and WA / fisheye adapters are not good enough for serious stills, though fine for the socials or video. I bought and sold mine.

[Craine 3]

Thanks to everyone for their input, it's very appreciated. I figured that I'd come back and let you all know my plan (for the moment). I've grabbed a Tamron 11-20mm f/2.8 (B060) from Lens Rentals and will be testing it on some snorkel adventures in the next week and a half. 

For reference, I'll be using a Sea Frogs Salted Line a6xxx housing and their 6" dome. I know that some user have a lot more success with their 8" as fas as edge quality, but I've been debating a switch to Ikelite, so until I decide on that I don't want to buy more Sea Frogs kit. 

I plan on taking plenty of photos in shallow water with good natural light and with strobes. I'll also try to get some reference photos with Legos in a pool if anyone is interested (I have some of those for a few other lenses as well here: https://www.crainerunton.photography/Not-Public/Salted-Line-testing/n-GZ5LMt/, but I need to update the photo titles).  

[polyroly 7]

@ Craine,

How did that go?, I would be interested to hear your experiences, as I am also looking at the Sony 10-18mm and 10-20mm and maybe the Tamron you mentioned. It seems the 10-18mm is the 'safe' bet with the Sea Frogs lines as it is on the charts at least.

 

Edit - actually it seems the Sony 10-18 may not be listed for Sea Frgs - I thought I did see it previously, but the Tamron IS there. Listed for the middle and large domes.

Edited March 7 by polyroly

[TmxDiver 47]

I just checked the Sony N85 Nauticam port chart and the 10-20mm isn't listed. I have the 10-18 and like it but would consider an "upgrade" to the 10-20 if anybody has tried it. As @Phil Rudin mentions, the 10-18 is pretty old. 

Has anybody used the 10-20 with a Nauticam setup and, if so, with which dome/port combo?

[dentrock 6]

The Nauticam port chart for Sony N85 is way out of date, except for water contact optics, which is all they seem to care about these days.

They have produced a zoom gear for the 10-20 though.

Could anyone who is using the 10-20 with Nauticam please let us know if the zoom works with N85 ports?

And is this zoom operated by the knob and gear in the housing itself, rather than a port with a knob and gear? 

Unfortunately in my experience trying to get answers to these types of questions from Nauticam is a waste of time.

My own tests of this lens will have to wait at least another couple of months (can't dive - awaiting surgery).

[ChrisRoss 150]

The zoom gear is here:

https://www.nauticam.com/products/se1020-z-zoom-gear-for-sony-e-10-20mm-f-4-pz-g-len

it looks very much like the gear engages the housing knob by the size and shape of it.  If they have produced a zoom gear presumably they have tested and should have port recommendations, you could try contacting Nauticam or backscatter or other  retailer.

[dentrock 6]

Chris, I agree, but...

Query to Nauticam 16 August 2022:

"I need a zoom gear for the new Sony 10-20 f/4 lens to use with my Sony A6400 in Nauticam NA-A6400 housing. Will the gear for the old Sony 10-18 f/4 fit (or can it be easily adapted)? If not, when can you supply the correct zoom gear, and will it be operated by the knob and gear in the housing like the 10-18 zoom gear?"

Answer 18 August:

"Thank you for reaching out! We are supporting the Sony 10-20mm f/4 lens and you can find the zoom gear here: https://www.nauticam.com/products/se1020-z-zoom-gear-for-sony-e-10-20mm-f-4-pz-g-len This is a new item so I'd estimate an order placed today can ship in the next 2-3 weeks. If you have any other questions, please let us know!"

The thing is, the gear is over AUD 300. I need to know if it works with any N85 port or extension, as they vary in internal diameter from 69.5mm up and over 72mm. I'm guessing it will be OK with the old 10-18 port (which I don't want to buy), but I want to try it with the 36125 mini dome, and am unwilling to chance the 300 bucks (I can cobble up a zoom gear from bits I already have to work with the N120 140mm dome and N85 to N120 adapter).

The reason for stuffing around is that it's  important to me to be able to remove the camera with mounted lens from the housing; as opposed to first removing port, then removing lens, then removing camera body; all of which is a real pita!

Unfortunately, Nauticam made a real design error is going for the very restrictive N85 port system with Sony APSC, rather than the N100 system (eg. as used for Fuji APSC).

[ChrisRoss 150]

18 minutes ago, dentrock said:

Chris, I agree, but...

Query to Nauticam 16 August 2022:

"I need a zoom gear for the new Sony 10-20 f/4 lens to use with my Sony A6400 in Nauticam NA-A6400 housing. Will the gear for the old Sony 10-18 f/4 fit (or can it be easily adapted)? If not, when can you supply the correct zoom gear, and will it be operated by the knob and gear in the housing like the 10-18 zoom gear?"

Answer 18 August:

"Thank you for reaching out! We are supporting the Sony 10-20mm f/4 lens and you can find the zoom gear here: https://www.nauticam.com/products/se1020-z-zoom-gear-for-sony-e-10-20mm-f-4-pz-g-len This is a new item so I'd estimate an order placed today can ship in the next 2-3 weeks. If you have any other questions, please let us know!"

The thing is, the gear is over AUD 300. I need to know if it works with any N85 port or extension, as they vary in internal diameter from 69.5mm up and over 72mm. I'm guessing it will be OK with the old 10-18 port (which I don't want to buy), but I want to try it with the 36125 mini dome, and am unwilling to chance the 300 bucks (I can cobble up a zoom gear from bits I already have to work with the N120 140mm dome and N85 to N120 adapter).

The reason for stuffing around is that it's  important to me to be able to remove the camera with mounted lens from the housing; as opposed to first removing port, then removing lens, then removing camera body; all of which is a real pita!

Unfortunately, Nauticam made a real design error is going for the very restrictive N85 port system with Sony APSC, rather than the N100 system (eg. as used for Fuji APSC).

OK so the question is will it fit - the lens is a 62mm diameter filter so it is probably going to be close with an N85 port, I just tried my 62mm filter Oly 12-40 - the nose goes in my macro ports but the zoom gear does not.  The Zen domes don't have the removable lug system like the Nauticam ones so are more likely to fit.  The 75mm OD zoom gear from my 12-40 just fits from the backside of the housing.

I would guess they would offer up the 7" acrylic dome and a 180mm dome plus adapter port. 

The 36125 dome is really only suitable for fisheye lenses it's too small for a 15mm full frame equivalent wide angle and corners will be soft.

[dentrock 6]

In my November post above, I included some dimensions.

I expect that the 10-20 will work with the special N85 port Nauticam made for the 10-18. But I don't own it and don't want to spend any more on Nauticam ports.

It fits fine in the 36125 port, but will it work with the zoom gear? That's the issue for me.

Re use of 36125 port and lenses other than fisheye, I'm not going to further the soft corners debate. I use this port successfully with lenses ranging from macro to Sony/Zeiss 24 to Samyang 12 (the latter required opening up the inside diameter by 0.5mm). I replaced the Samyang with the Sony 10-20. I'm fine with the trade-off gain of compact and light weight vs softness in corners. Anyone interested in the debate should conduct their own tests and work out what's acceptable to them.

My calculations show that the 10-20 needs a 17mm extension with the 36125 (which is available); or aligns within 3mm with a N120 140mm dome plus 34.7mm N85 to N120 adapter, all of which I already own. Either way as above I want to be able to remove camera plus lens from the housing in one go for faster and dust-free lens changes...

[Craine 3]

17 hours ago, polyroly said:

@ Craine,

How did that go?, I would be interested to hear your experiences, as I am also looking at the Sony 10-18mm and 10-20mm and maybe the Tamron you mentioned. It seems the 10-18mm is the 'safe' bet with the Sea Frogs lines as it is on the charts at least.

 

@polyroly It was alright in the 6” dome in the center, but the edges were definitely out of focus. I think it has to do with the fact that the Tamron front element extends when you pull the FL back to 11mm. The lens is actually at its most compact at 20mm. So by the time you “zoom out” to 11, the front element is too far into the dome from its optical center to get any sort of decent sharpness/focus. It might work better in an 8” dome, since it looks like that one sits farther away from the housing body than the 6”, but I’m not going to invest in any more SeaFrogs stuff at this point. 

I’m travelling right now, but I will work on getting my test shots up and on a new gallery when I have a spare hour or two (the old link doesn’t work anymore, as I moved photo hosts). 

[polyroly 7]

@ Craine, Thanks (a lot) ! very useful. Disturbing that on the Salted Line lens chart it registers the Tamron as 'rated' for use in the 6" Dome. It would be useful if the chart at least put an asterisk (formerly asterix). I recently played with the Sony 10-20mm and the front element only moves a small amount - but its position may be an issue.

[dentrock 6]

The dome should be aligned with a zoom lens at (or towards) its widest FOV. If the Tamron "zooms out" to 11, then you may need to include an extension ring. Best if you measure the dome and find out where its optical centre is (since manufacturers never tell you) and compare that with where the EP for the Tamron lies at 11, with camera and lens mounted in the housing.

I don't have an EP measurement for the Tamron, but it's easy to figure out. See my first post above. You may have to compromise a bit, partly depending on what extensions are available, but if the dome is way out of alignment, you will certainly get large soft corners, which can't be fixed with smaller apertures. I'd be aiming to get the alignment within 10, pref. 5mm, and towards the 20 end of the zoom.

Even so, the rig may still be useable in its current form, depending on your subject and what you are trying to achieve, as the centre will always be sharp. Just depends on how big you want that sharp centre section to be, as it's not always necessary or desirable even to have everything sharp in a photo (see the endless and vicious forum wars about bokeh among land photographers on DPReview).

Better alignment = larger sharp centre circle, within the limits of using a rectilinear wide lens behind a dome.

[dentrock 6]

Sorry, I forgot to mention that the EP moves with a zoom lens, sometimes a lot, such as with my Sigma 18-50.

So align your dome with EP at or near the widest FOV, and since you will never get it exact, err (if you have to) back a little towards the narrow end (rather than go further).

Main thing is to first measure what you have already, so you can see what is wrong.

[TmxDiver 47]

FYI - I asked Nauticam about the 10-20 and here is the response I got (I checked that it was okay to repost):

 

Quote

Thanks for reaching out! We have tested this lens in house, and actually made a gear. It didn't make our port charts due to a few issues with the port configurations available.

There is vignetting in the extreme corners at 10mm. This actually goes away shooting in JPEG due to the barrel distortion correction in camera, or can be corrected in lightroom via a crop or lens correction.

The following are compatible if this vignette is acceptable:

1. 36133 N85 6'' acrylic dome port
2. 36207 N85-N120 50mm Port Adaptor II + 18809 180mm optical glass wide angle port

The zoom gear is available here:
https://www.nauticam.com/products/se1020-z-zoom-gear-for-sony-e-10-20mm-f-4-pz-g-len

Regards,

- brett

[dentrock 6]

Thanks - that's helpful. Since the 36133 is mentioned as an option, that confirms the zoom gear is operated by the housing knob and gear (since the 36133 has no knob).

And (hopefully) the camera with lens and zoom gear fitted will be able to slip out the back of the housing through the N85 components, without removing the port. If anyone can confirm this, that would be fantastic!

Regarding the "vignetting" (I assume they mean corner cut off), a fisheye port will solve that, although a shorter N85 to N120 adapter would be required if using a N120 fisheye port, for best alignment. There are some issues going that way, so I'm sure they didn't test that option; but nothing that can't be solved. Plus I already have all the bits and am not about to buy the expensive and heavy 180mm glass port.

All in the quest for 'one port to rule them all' (for easy travel and tough dive conditions with my little Sony system).

[ChrisRoss 150]

Must be something odd with the entrance pupil location with the lens, the 180mm dome is a large enough section to accommodate a 16mm equivalent lens with entrance pupil at the centre of curvature. 

On fitting through the N85 port the limiting factor is the bolt on lug ring with many of the Nauticam domes, The zoom ring of my Oly 12-40 lens won't go through any of the ports I have, it only fits through the Zen 170mm port which has the lug ring machined into the port barrel so has a bigger ID.

Do you have the 10-20 in hand?  On my Oly lens which is very similar size the Zoom ring is ~70 mm diameter and the Zoom gear OD is ~75mm.  I would think the OD of any Nauticam zoom gear with type of construction would be very close to 5mm larger than the zoom ring on the lens OD.  Might be enough to say it will not fit - but a bit risky till you get the whole assembly in hand to say that it will.

The ID of my ZEN 170mm port is 77mm - this is as big as it is possible to make an N85 port.  The 12-40 with 75mm zoom ring just.... fits through from the back.  By comparison my flat ports from Nauticam are 70mm OD.  What is the ID of your 36125 port?

[dentrock 6]

Hmmm it's going to be touch and go. I have the lens to hand and listed dia is 69.8 which would be for manual focus ring right at the front (widest bit). Zoom ring appears to be approx 4mm smaller... but I don't have a big caliper to measure properly.

Most of my dive gear and housing is 1000 km away and I'm not allowed to travel atm, but the 50mm N85 to N120 adapter I do have handy is approx 76mm ID (lugs machined into it).

36125 was 69.5mm and is now enlarged to approx 70mm (to fit Samyang AF 12 which I sold).

To summarise, prob 10-20 won't fit with zoom gear att through 36125, but should (just) fit through the 34.7mm N85 to N120 adapter (assuming its ID is same as 50mm adapter) which I want to use (with 140 fisheye dome)!

I can try the 50mm adapter with the 140, but that puts the dome approx 12mm too far forward, which may also cause cutoff. Who knows...

Busting to try it but sadly now prob 3 months off...

[dentrock 6]

Zoom ring measures between 68 and 68.5 mm. Focus ring measurement check is 70. My workshop is analagous to backyard in Mumbai (no offence intended).