Sony A7R V

[sinetwo 26]

1 hour ago, Alex_Mustard said:

p.s. We re-recorded the Wetpixel Live this morning, so there are lots of thoughts on there. I'll post back on here when I have had the chance to share some of the images. Which I think will be very valuable for anyone interested in the A7RV

I look forward to seeing it, thanks @Alex_Mustard

Initial thoughts on following this thread with excitement, is that: the camera itself is very capable and comparable with the D850+, but is limited by lens choice.

This is actually good, because it means mirrorless tech is probably where it should be for underwater, and the only thing we need are better macro lenses.

Obviously not great as I don't know if Sony is planning on releasing a better macro lens, unless I've missed something.

Either way, I'm really looking forward to hearing about the Z8, as that will be my next camera for land based wildlife photography (provided it is a mini Z9 of sorts). It makes sense to one day house a Z8, if FTZ adapters work well within underwater housings with my vast array of existing glass. Otherwise we'll end up with the very expensive glass exchange conundrum.

[Interceptor121 770]

22 minutes ago, sinetwo said:

I look forward to seeing it, thanks @Alex_Mustard

Initial thoughts on following this thread with excitement, is that: the camera itself is very capable and comparable with the D850+, but is limited by lens choice.

This is actually good, because it means mirrorless tech is probably where it should be for underwater, and the only thing we need are better macro lenses.

Obviously not great as I don't know if Sony is planning on releasing a better macro lens, unless I've missed something.

Either way, I'm really looking forward to hearing about the Z8, as that will be my next camera for land based wildlife photography (provided it is a mini Z9 of sorts). It makes sense to one day house a Z8, if FTZ adapters work well within underwater housings with my vast array of existing glass. Otherwise we'll end up with the very expensive glass exchange conundrum.

It makes it look like current e-mount macro choices are not good but that is definitely not the case

The camera market is driven by top side not underwater use cases

The Sony 90mm and the Sigma 105mm are excellent macro lenses with resolution that is unprecedented in DSLR

For reference the resolution of the Sony 90mm on a A7RIV is almost 3x the Nikkor 105mm with the D850 and the sigma is even better on the Sony E-mount

The sony 90mm being optimised for topside has a very nice focus clutch for manual focus and has OSS all those features have incredible value if you are shooting what a topside shoooter uses a macro lens for which is NOT bugs, flies anything that moves very fast

Things that move fast topside are normally shot using a telephoto lens and extension tubes or close up filters

There used to be much longer macro primes 180 200 or 300 mm for shooting bugs but those have gone a bit in the backburner

The primary issue with the 90mm (the sigma is worse) is when it changes from infinity to 1:1 this is where it can hunt but to say this is a lens that is lacking is a bit harsh considering this is one lens that will actually resolve the 61 megapixels the A7RIV/V are capable of

Maybe is more a case that concidentally some DSLR macro lenses also focussed a bit faster than you would expect than to say that Sony E-mount is sloppy

Full disclosure I have the lens and it does hunt at time and it is not fast to go through a full range scan but I would not think this makes it a show stopper for any use case. Yes would like it to be better but I am not sure this will happen in any mirrorless format

 

[Architeuthis 156]

When buying new into a system, also the size and weight may become an argument (other than with UW-photographers that already have a system). The subsequent table demonstrates, that Sony FF cameras in Nauticam housings, with respect to size and weight, are more in the range of APS-C cameras as compared to their FF peers from Canon and Nikon:

.

Of course this is just the pure housing and all the other gear as (dome)port, flashes and arms has to be added. Still starting from the minimum possible seems attractive...

 

Wolfgang

Edited January 30 by Architeuthis

[lambee01 22]

56 minutes ago, Interceptor121 said:

It makes it look like current e-mount macro choices are not good but that is definitely not the case

The camera market is driven by top side not underwater use cases

The Sony 90mm and the Sigma 105mm are excellent macro lenses with resolution that is unprecedented in DSLR

For reference the resolution of the Sony 90mm on a A7RIV is almost 3x the Nikkor 105mm with the D850 and the sigma is even better on the Sony E-mount

The sony 90mm being optimised for topside has a very nice focus clutch for manual focus and has OSS all those features have incredible value if you are shooting what a topside shoooter uses a macro lens for which is NOT bugs, flies anything that moves very fast

Things that move fast topside are normally shot using a telephoto lens and extension tubes or close up filters

There used to be much longer macro primes 180 200 or 300 mm for shooting bugs but those have gone a bit in the backburner

The primary issue with the 90mm (the sigma is worse) is when it changes from infinity to 1:1 this is where it can hunt but to say this is a lens that is lacking is a bit harsh considering this is one lens that will actually resolve the 61 megapixels the A7RIV/V are capable of

Maybe is more a case that concidentally some DSLR macro lenses also focussed a bit faster than you would expect than to say that Sony E-mount is sloppy

Full disclosure I have the lens and it does hunt at time and it is not fast to go through a full range scan but I would not think this makes it a show stopper for any use case. Yes would like it to be better but I am not sure this will happen in any mirrorless format

 

@Interceptor121 You ARE so right !!!!
I may shock some, and i apologize in advance. But it reminds when as male teenagers, we were comparing ....

Stop, i am not going any further.

Sony 90mm Macro is an awesome MACRO lens, and @Interceptor121 has said everything about this lens comparing it it old Macro DSLR lenses.

Some people still do not accept that SONY has taken the Lion's share in Photo business (all photo business) and that they have pioneered the mirrorless format. Guys, feel free to stay with Nikon and Canon, who BTW have followed Sony on its innovation path.

See you underwater anytime.

 

 

[Alex_Mustard 0]

On 1/30/2023 at 3:21 PM, Architeuthis said:

When buying new into a system, also the size and weight may become an argument (other than with UW-photographers that already have a system). The subsequent table demonstrates, that Sony FF cameras in Nauticam housings, with respect to size and weight, are more in the range of APS-C cameras as compared to their FF peers from Canon and Nikon:

.

Of course this is just the pure housing and all the other gear as (dome)port, flashes and arms has to be added. Still starting from the minimum possible seems attractive...

 

Wolfgang

Interesting table. I commented (based only on carrying them to the dive boat) in the review that I felt the Sony weighed pretty much the same as my Nikon D850. So after seeing your table, I put my Subal on the kitchen scales (it is a bit heavier than standard Subal as it has a Nauticam viewfinder attachment and Nauticam vacuum system), but is noticeably lighter than a Nauticam D850. But at 2.7KG it is the same as the Nauticam Sony housing.

[Alex_Mustard 0]

For those interested in this camera, DPReview published their written review today https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sony-a7rv-review

And their video: 

Obviously all above water. I think UW testing is particular important for cameras with EVFs and that use sensor data (including colour) for Autofocus. But I am sure those considering this camera will still value more information. 

The Wetpixel Live review (recorded yesterday) will be online when Adam has a chance to upload it. I'll share it, if Adam doesn't.

Alex

[Interceptor121 770]

2 minutes ago, Alex_Mustard said:

For those interested in this camera, DPReview published their written review today https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sony-a7rv-review

And their video: 

 

What? I thought topside reviews don't count??

 

Joke dpreview is fairly balanced 

This is the article from Richard Butler 

The score is 92% which is very high. 

Good for A broad range of photography requiring high resolution.

Not so good for  Work that puts equal emphasis on video and stills.

Edited January 31 by Interceptor121

[lambee01 22]

No comment. It says everything. https://www.popphoto.com/reviews/sony-a1-review/

"Sony A1 Review: The true Alpha mirrorless camera
The Sony A1 is the most powerful mirrorless camera on the market right now."

Unbiased, non commercial review.

Happy when Nikon and/or Canon will catch up, even overtake Sony, but at the moment, Sony A1 is the most... as says the reviewS (many reviews)

[Alex_Mustard 0]

I am very busy with all the UPY Admin this week, but I have started to process a few underwater images from the A7RV.

These photos are all from my first dive on the Kittiwake with the camera (I made 4 on the wreck in total, this trip). I usually use my first dive on the Kittiwake each year to re-shoot scenes I have photographed before to show changes/colonisation on the wreck. Which means it is usually a productive, if not especially creative dive. Thanks to Sam (red) and Phoebe (white) for posing!

All pictures taken with Sony A7RV, Canon 8-15mm @ 15mm. Nauticam NA-A7RV. Retra Pro flashes (when used). 230mm dome. Nauticam 40˚ 0.8:1 viewfinder. Images obviously compressed low res!

Alex

[lambee01 22]

1 hour ago, Alex_Mustard said:

I am very busy with all the UPY Admin this week, but I have started to process a few underwater images from the A7RV.

These photos are all from my first dive on the Kittiwake with the camera (I made 4 on the wreck in total, this trip). I usually use my first dive on the Kittiwake each year to re-shoot scenes I have photographed before to show changes/colonisation on the wreck. Which means it is usually a productive, if not especially creative dive. Thanks to Sam (red) and Phoebe (white) for posing!

All pictures taken with Sony A7RV, Canon 8-15mm @ 15mm. Nauticam NA-A7RV. Retra Pro flashes (when used). 230mm dome. Nauticam 40˚ 0.8:1 viewfinder. Images obviously compressed low res!

Alex

@Alex_Mustard Great shots (independant of the camera, but du to the photographer.) 
Is there any reason why you are using the 230 DP rather than the 140 Fisheye Port, which by the way is recommended by Nauticam for the Fisheye lenses (either the Canon 8-15, or the Sigma 15mm).
Corner sharpness, though low resolution on Wetpixel looks good (after all those last weeks debates on WACP-C)

[oneyellowtang 96]

On 1/30/2023 at 6:46 AM, Interceptor121 said:

It makes it look like current e-mount macro choices are not good but that is definitely not the case

The camera market is driven by top side not underwater use cases

The Sony 90mm and the Sigma 105mm are excellent macro lenses with resolution that is unprecedented in DSLR

For reference the resolution of the Sony 90mm on a A7RIV is almost 3x the Nikkor 105mm with the D850 and the sigma is even better on the Sony E-mount

The sony 90mm being optimised for topside has a very nice focus clutch for manual focus and has OSS all those features have incredible value if you are shooting what a topside shoooter uses a macro lens for which is NOT bugs, flies anything that moves very fast

Things that move fast topside are normally shot using a telephoto lens and extension tubes or close up filters

There used to be much longer macro primes 180 200 or 300 mm for shooting bugs but those have gone a bit in the backburner

The primary issue with the 90mm (the sigma is worse) is when it changes from infinity to 1:1 this is where it can hunt but to say this is a lens that is lacking is a bit harsh considering this is one lens that will actually resolve the 61 megapixels the A7RIV/V are capable of

Maybe is more a case that concidentally some DSLR macro lenses also focussed a bit faster than you would expect than to say that Sony E-mount is sloppy

Full disclosure I have the lens and it does hunt at time and it is not fast to go through a full range scan but I would not think this makes it a show stopper for any use case. Yes would like it to be better but I am not sure this will happen in any mirrorless format

 

The Sony 90mm on an A7RIV shooting blackwater is (almost) unusable considering the number of images captured by either a D850 or D500 with a 60mm. It's not that it can't get shots, it's that the effort involved in easily 10x vs. the DSLR shooting the same subjects in the same conditions.

I'm super glad to read @Alex_Mustard's review of the A7RV - we're taking it to Ambon in the spring, looking forward to trying it out. He's correct in identifying that the A7RV is priced at a point that allows serious photographers to shoot with it, while taking advantage of the features initially available in the A1. 

Like the older Nikon pro models relative to the D850, etc. - for many the D850 was a great camera one step below the pro bodies, with many evolved features coming from those models.

As for the A1 not needing "anything else" - yeah... if that was the case Sony would have built the camera that would have ended their investment in the mirrorless market. I guarantee they have numerous design & feature ideas for the next evolution of the body - to assume otherwise is both naive and not understanding the engineering process.

[Interceptor121 770]

The Sony 90mm on an A7RIV shooting blackwater is (almost) unusable considering the number of images captured by either a D850 or D500 with a 60mm. It's not that it can't get shots, it's that the effort involved in easily 10x vs. the DSLR shooting the same subjects in the same conditions.

I'm super glad to read [mention=713]Alex_Mustard[/mention]'s review of the A7RV - we're taking it to Ambon in the spring, looking forward to trying it out. He's correct in identifying that the A7RV is priced at a point that allows serious photographers to shoot with it, while taking advantage of the features initially available in the A1. 

Like the older Nikon pro models relative to the D850, etc. - for many the D850 was a great camera one step below the pro bodies, with many evolved features coming from those models.

As for the A1 not needing "anything else" - yeah... if that was the case Sony would have built the camera that would have ended their investment in the mirrorless market. I guarantee they have numerous design & feature ideas for the next evolution of the body - to assume otherwise is both naive and not understanding the engineering process.

I think the idea that someone designs a camera that is the top of the range sparing features for the future is silly
What happens is technology improves and certain things become possible
The A7RV has some software development and a new LCD and nothing that was developed especially for it
The A1 has technology not available to other models that so far it has not yet been possible to improve
Will sony release in 2024 a mark II just with minor updates I hope not


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[oneyellowtang 96]

33 minutes ago, Interceptor121 said:

I think the idea that someone designs a camera that is the top of the range sparing features for the future is silly
What happens is technology improves and certain things become possible
The A7RV has some software development and a new LCD and nothing that was developed especially for it
The A1 has technology not available to other models that so far it has not yet been possible to improve
Will sony release in 2024 a mark II just with minor updates I hope not


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

As someone who both leads large software teams and has (in the past) led teams that build complex consumer electronics I can tell you definitively that your view is naive (or uninformed... you can choose).

Not only do products get built leaving potential features on the shelf, they are built with obsolescence in mind. One of the first rules of design in that for consumer electronics you never build a product that requires replacement with the exact same product, you always build for the "upgrade," next rev., etc. Just like you never buy the same car - there's always a new model year avail. by the time you are ready to replace the one you have. This is taught as basic product design around the world.

You also completely ignored the fact that technology has a cost - it's not that technology evolves from not possible to possible, it evolves from "too costly" to "affordable." 

Edited February 1 by oneyellowtang

[Interceptor121 770]

As someone who both leads large software teams and has (in the past) led teams that build complex consumer electronics I can tell you definitively that your view is naive (or uninformed... you can choose).

 

Not only do products get built leaving potential features on the shelf, they are built with obsolescence in mind. One of the first rules of design in that for consumer electronics you never build a product that requires replacement with the exact same product, you always build for the "upgrade," next rev., etc. Just like you never buy the same car - there's always a new model year avail. by the time you are ready to replace the one you have. This is taught is basic product design around the world.

 

You also completely ignored the fact that technology has a cost - it's not that technology evolves from not possible to possible, it evolves from "too costly" to "affordable." 

I think you must be working in a really bad business from which I wouldn’t buy anything

And your statements are so condescending is scary

Of course a perfect product can be very expensive but saving features for later normally results in no market leadership or going out of business

 

 

 

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[lambee01 22]

1 hour ago, Interceptor121 said:

I think you must be working in a really bad business from which I wouldn’t buy anything

And your statements are so condescending is scary

Of course a perfect product can be very expensive but saving features for later normally results in no market leadership or going out of business

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Gentlemen, we all are gentlemen on Wetpixel forum.
Let's go back to the discussion. We were talking about A7rV and A1.
Not mentioned yet, but this was also published a few month ago on DPG : https://www.divephotoguide.com/underwater-photography-special-features/article/review-sony-alpha-1-a1-nauticam-housing/

"A Dependable Workhorse No Matter How Tough the Task". 

Cannot agree more as I am using the A1. for now 14 months.

Here an example of the combo : Sony A1, Nauticam NA-A1, Sony 12-24 F/4 here at 20mm , Nauticam Dome Port 230 ISO800, f/16, 1/60th .

Photo is uncropped. Purpose is just and only to look at the corners as there was so much debate on this topic from all you guys.

 

[TimG 62]

11 minutes ago, lambee01 said:

Gentlemen, we all are gentlemen on Wetpixel forum.
Let's go back to the discussion. We were talking about A7rV and A1.

Thank you - and well said.....

[Interceptor121 770]

27 minutes ago, lambee01 said:

Gentlemen, we all are gentlemen on Wetpixel forum.
Let's go back to the discussion. We were talking about A7rV and A1.
Not mentioned yet, but this was also published a few month ago on DPG : https://www.divephotoguide.com/underwater-photography-special-features/article/review-sony-alpha-1-a1-nauticam-housing/

"A Dependable Workhorse No Matter How Tough the Task". 

Cannot agree more as I am using the A1. for now 14 months.

Here an example of the combo : Sony A1, Nauticam NA-A1, Sony 12-24 F/4 here at 20mm , Nauticam Dome Port 230 ISO800, f/16, 1/60th .

Photo is uncropped. Purpose is just and only to look at the corners as there was so much debate on this topic from all you guys.

 

I do not think there is an A1 vs A7RV topic

But the whole idea that someone releases a top of the range product deliberately limiting features is at least dated

Technology moves very fast nobody is able to predict exactly what happens in 3 years and neither you can take a risk anticipating what competitors would do

Product become obsolete as technology moves you cannot design them to be obsolete when you want anymore

The concept of developing poor software and saving features for later is also dated and today would lead companies to go out of business very fast. 

Obviously there is a cost ceiling of how far you will go but that is a different topic and has to do with perceived value to the customer of a given feature and having a market for it

Anytime you go lower with price there is automatically a larger group of people that can afford it so when you at you range depending on your targeting strategy you may choose to omit certain features in order to reduce cost and expand that customer base this is entirely possible but not a decision based on next upgrade in 3 years. Consumers switch fast today and brand loyalty does not exist. Preaching certain old school models here on this forum is totally out of place and serves no purpose.

Numerous distressed business that I have come across share this view that they can anticipate everyone needs out there and who will pay for what only to find out they did not actually when is too late

Sony has a pretty clear range strategy the introduce new models sparingly and use versioning to take them forward usualluy on a fixed interval this is around 3 years but can be longer if there is no material improvement worth pushing out a new model

It was like this for the A7S series it took 5 years and they had not found anything that would make people upgrade, other models are 3 years. Those are intervals sufficiently long so that some advance will actually occur to justify upgrades but not many people will upgrade regardless and this is because you can't actually really control or understand what value is for everyone

In the case of the A7RV some improvements like the menu system, the autofocus, the EVF come from previous models. The sensor is identical to the previous version. At the end of the day for a camera that has a pretty slwo burst speed to whom does it matter if it has better autofocus if all you are doing is shooting landscapes or architecture which are the application that normally require high resolution? However if you did not have any of such high resolution camera this version may the one that will convince you buying into the system as @alex_mustard said

I am in fact not convinced any camera at £3,999+ is the one that is going to shift the masses as switching system for an underwater user means that amount will go in the housing and then lenses etc need to come forward

I see underwater photographer especially very static with low motivation to change dramatically most of them do not shoot topside and they have 3-4 lenses and 2 ports as they need to spend money to actually travel and take some photos

I think the DSLR market will die slowly and most users will wait until their system fails to consider what to do and if they have a housing and can still find a replacement they may not even upgrade anyway

So what the A1 can or not do or the A7RV will not matter much as people will find all sort of excuses to stay with what they have and actually until the system works there is no reason to change. 

It would be interesting to know if any A7RV housing are getting sold and who is the clientele if existing mirrorless users or former DSLR

[Alex_Mustard 0]

6 hours ago, lambee01 said:

@Alex_Mustard Great shots (independant of the camera, but du to the photographer.) 
Is there any reason why you are using the 230 DP rather than the 140 Fisheye Port, which by the way is recommended by Nauticam for the Fisheye lenses (either the Canon 8-15, or the Sigma 15mm).
Corner sharpness, though low resolution on Wetpixel looks good (after all those last weeks debates on WACP-C)

I shot with both, and would own both if I got into this system. I really like the smaller dome too. The bigger dome gives slightly better image quality, will work better with other lenses like the 16-35mm, and is better for split level photos. The smaller dome is cheaper, lighter and easier for lighting very close focus wide angle subjects. With the Canon 8-15mm and adaptor that I was using, that may not be optimal, the 8-15mm hunted more obviously with the 140mm dome. 

All my photos (above) were shot at f/13. With the 230mm on a full frame camera that aperture will give great corner sharpness and a pleasing "everything is in focus (from foreground to the surface)" look to normal wide angle shooting. You just need a bit more strobe power to compensate and everything is easy.

[LarryHallas 44]

9 hours ago, Alex_Mustard said:

underwater images from the A7RV

These are fantastic Alex! Thank you for sharing your thoughts on the Sony mirrorless cameras, especially for underwater photography. From reading your posts, you shot with the Nikon Z7 II and the Sony A1/A7RV. Which system did you prefer? I am looking forward to your review!

Thanks, Larry

[ChrisRoss 150]

6 hours ago, TimG said:

6 hours ago, lambee01 said:

Gentlemen, we all are gentlemen on Wetpixel forum.
Let's go back to the discussion. We were talking about A7rV and A1.

Thank you - and well said.....

Agree, and we should be able to make points without getting personal.  I have already had one member report this post, so please keep it civil and stick to the topic being discussed.

[Interceptor121 770]

I shot with both, and would own both if I got into this system. I really like the smaller dome too. The bigger dome gives slightly better image quality, will work better with other lenses like the 16-35mm, and is better for split level photos. The smaller dome is cheaper, lighter and easier for lighting very close focus wide angle subjects. With the Canon 8-15mm and adaptor that I was using, that may not be optimal, the 8-15mm hunted more obviously with the 140mm dome. 
All my photos (above) were shot at f/13. With the 230mm on a full frame camera that aperture will give great corner sharpness and a pleasing "everything is in focus (from foreground to the surface)" look to normal wide angle shooting. You just need a bit more strobe power to compensate and everything is easy.

Have you taken shots at wider apertures? I would be interested to see f/8 - f/11 in comparison


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[lambee01 22]

10 minutes ago, Interceptor121 said:

Have you taken shots at wider apertures? I would be interested to see f/8 - f/11 in comparison


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@Alex_Mustard Happy to hear you used both and liked both.
I am personnaly using the Sigma 15mm Fisheye and not the Canon 8-15, hence results might be different.

However, and i am NOT a specialist nor an expert in Optical Physics, but the curvature of the 140 Dome Port is half a sphere when the curvature of the 230 Dome port is much much larger, and all UW housing manufacturers (Nauticam, but also Subal, Seacam, BS_Kinetics, Seas and Sea, Aquatica etc...) recommend half sphere (hence the DP 140) because of the 180° field of view of the fisheye, which in addition is constructed with a spherical projection and not a rectilinear one. Hence correction of diffraction needs a half sphere and not a dome with lager curvature.

Experienced based, unless i want to do split shots where i would use the DP 230, i always use my FE lense behind the 140 Dome port.
Also looking at shots done at f/8 - f/11, corners are less sharp

[Interceptor121 770]

51 minutes ago, lambee01 said:

@Alex_Mustard Happy to hear you used both and liked both.
I am personnaly using the Sigma 15mm Fisheye and not the Canon 8-15, hence results might be different.

However, and i am NOT a specialist nor an expert in Optical Physics, but the curvature of the 140 Dome Port is half a sphere when the curvature of the 230 Dome port is much much larger, and all UW housing manufacturers (Nauticam, but also Subal, Seacam, BS_Kinetics, Seas and Sea, Aquatica etc...) recommend half sphere (hence the DP 140) because of the 180° field of view of the fisheye, which in addition is constructed with a spherical projection and not a rectilinear one. Hence correction of diffraction needs a half sphere and not a dome with lager curvature.

Experienced based, unless i want to do split shots where i would use the DP 230, i always use my FE lense behind the 140 Dome port.
Also looking at shots done at f/8 - f/11, corners are less sharp

I did not know the 230mm is not half sphere it looks pretty large to me but I have not checked it

I would be interested seeing shots at f/8 with the 140mm dome and any fisheye lens

[oneyellowtang 96]

12 hours ago, Interceptor121 said:

I think you must be working in a really bad business from which I wouldn’t buy anything

And your statements are so condescending is scary

Of course a perfect product can be very expensive but saving features for later normally results in no market leadership or going out of business

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Umm... we produce one of the world's most used online services (something that you likely use on daily basis). 

Not intended to be condescending - it was meant to point out that your argument was "lacking..." (through omission)

Bringing this back on topic: it is almost guaranteed that the A1 will be updated with a new model in the next 24-30 months, with new features and capabilites. That's how electronics product management works... (at least for product lines meant to be continued - Sony could exit the market for this format, but that seems unlikely).

We are seeing this exact thing with Inon - many would argue the Z330 (at its current price point) fits a need and a market niche, yet - they are stopping production (EOL) to (as most assume) release a new model. They have a choice - they can raise the price, trying to create a new market niche, or more likely add capabilities at a similar price point (while also reducing build costs).

 

[Interceptor121 770]

4 minutes ago, oneyellowtang said:

Umm... we produce one of the world's most used online services (something that you likely use on daily basis). 

Not intended to be condescending - it was meant to point out that your argument was "lacking..." (through omission)

Bringing this back on topic: it is almost guaranteed that the A1 will be updated with a new model in the next 24-30 months, with new features and capabilites. That's how electronics product management works... (at least for product lines meant to be continued - Sony could exit the market for this format, but that seems unlikely).

We are seeing this exact thing with Inon - many would argue the Z330 (at its current price point) fits a need and a market niche, yet - they are stopping production (EOL) to (as most assume) release a new model. They have a choice - they can raise the price, trying to create a new market niche, or more likely add capabilities at a similar price point (while also reducing build costs).

 

The A1 will be updated most likely in 2025 that is the logic of Sony product development as long as there is enough improvement to justify the existence of a new version or it may be longer

Since the A1 was released there has been minor development from Sony side. They have added a more comprehensive subject recognition. When the A1 was released in early 2021 the only company who had subject recognition was Panasonic and to a lesser extent Olympus

The A7RV has the same processor of the A1 so technically it is possible to retrofit the deep learning algorithm inside it

The other benefit of the A7RV is a better LCD again this is a minor upgrade overall 

Other features like focus bracketing can be obtained with an external app again could be programmed through firmware if Sony wanted

And finally HR shots with motion compensation again something that can be programmed

As of today the A1 is the fastest reading camera on the market as the Nikon Z9 has lower resolution. Maybe Sony will make it even quicker but I presume features like pro-capture are more interesting to the target audience than more pixels

I never said the A1 is an eternal camera that will never be updated but I totally disagree that you design a top of the range camera with limitations in mind. Sony is a large corporate and product development is no doubt already complicated by the environment the limitations will come naturally don't need to be planted if you want to be market leader

As of today the A1 still detains the highest performing autofocus on the entire full frame range including mirrorless and DSLR when tested with fast moving subjects and I can confirm the camera almost never misses and if it does it was user error

It is a different camera to the A7RV which is really a photo camera for landscape, architecture, portait and macro anything that needs that extreme resolution but not really geared for speed or video

When it comes to autofocus difficulties with macro lenses in mirrorless camera focus is performed on sensor and it is driven by readout speed and computation speed. The limitations of the A7RV come from readout speed so compared to the A1 it will always lack no matter the subject recognition or others because the starting point is worse

This is different from DSLR where readout speed only influenced when the camera is ready to take the next shot and it is a significant difference many people struggle to understand

When it comes to sony autofocus it also does not focus with the lens wide open by default the lens is actually as you have it set unless you select aperture drive and then it will focus wide open. I am still struggling to see if the aperture drive brings any benefit at all