Wetpixel Live: Sony a7R V for UW Shooters?

[Davide DB 492]

Since many people have a large fleet of Nikon lenses, is there a proven Nikon F to Sony E adapter with autofocus?

 

Edited February 4 by Davide DB

[Draq 118]

11 hours ago, TimG said:

if you have something that works and you get the results you want, why change it? Yeah, I love the flashy new toys and the thought of some of the capabilities. But really, will the new tech help me take better pics? Marginal. I really have my doubts. It's the same bloke behind the camera. With a D500 I can't say I need faster AF or more pixels; I do like the idea though of reviewing an image in the viewfinder.

I'm no Luddite and thought the Spinning Jenny and the Ravelling Nancy were wonderful developments. Sure mirrorless will be the way to go for the future underwater (as it is now topside). When I need something new as the D500 system is either clapped out or there is something dramatically new, it'll be mirrorless. Till then, hello D500, my friend. 

But if I was starting from scratch now, yep, I'd be checking out mirrorless options.

 

I feel the same way.  At the moment there is just no compelling need to switch and I would have to sell a bunch of gear, as I have no desire to run two different systems for underwater and above water photography.  I sometimes wish for a smaller housing and some of the mirrorless provide that, but otherwise, my D500 is better  at this than I am so continuing to improve skills would make a difference in my photos, but buying a new camera would not.  But buying new cameras is more fun that working on skills.  Boys and their toys.

If starting new, I imagine I would go with Sony but I am looking forward to seeing what the Nikon Z8 brings to the discussion.  It could be a solid competitor to the Sony and offer some greater compatibility with existing Nikon lenses, and allow use of my 8-15 without dealing with aftermarket converters.  I suspect no manufacturer is rushing to get a fisheye into production for their mirrorless cameras.  Huge telephotos and fast lenses are what most consumers are clamoring for. 

I will likely stay with the D500 for the foreseeable future, but look forward to the discussions and reviews when the Z8 comes out.

[adamhanlon 0]

@Alex_Mustard has kindly written a comprehensive review of his thoughts and experiences using the Sony a7R V:

https://wetpixel.com/articles/review-sony-a7r-v-by-alex-mustard

 

[Isaac Szabo 90]

Great review, Alex! I think you've convinced me to upgrade to the A7R V before too long.

I have a question about this sentence: "I had heard people struggling with the Sony’s with the EMWL, but I assume that the new, dedication Focus Unit (the first stage of the EMWL) has solved the problems."

Has Nauticam released a new or updated focus unit? If so, I wasn't aware of that. Focus unit #3 for the Sony 90mm has been around since the initial release of the EMWL.

Edited February 4 by Isaac Szabo

[hyp 111]

In another thread on here, it was mentioned that the focusing behaviour of the aperture changed with the newest Sony cameras (not sure, which model is the first with the new behaviour) which allows the EMWL to be used without issue. Sorry, I can't reference the thread, but it is not the focusing unit that solved the issue, as the issue was caused by the way the camera acquired focus in the first place and nothing Nauticam could have done would have fixed that. Maybe @Alex_Mustard might want to change that line from the review.

[Interceptor121 768]

In another thread on here, it was mentioned that the focusing behaviour of the aperture changed with the newest Sony cameras (not sure, which model is the first with the new behaviour) which allows the EMWL to be used without issue. Sorry, I can't reference the thread, but it is not the focusing unit that solved the issue, as the issue was caused by the way the camera acquired focus in the first place and nothing Nauticam could have done would have fixed that. Maybe [mention=713]Alex_Mustard[/mention] might want to change that line from the review.

The A1 A7RV A7IV and A7S3 have a choice between standard and focus priority for the aperture drive
Not sure about old models


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Gudge 58]

All the Sony cameras I have used (A7RIV, A7C and A6600) have settings to optimise AF.  These are:

• Priority Set in AF-S and AF-C where you can choose between AF, Release and Balanced Emphasis (default)
• Aperture Drive (not on A6600) where you can choose between Focus Priority, Standard (default) and Silent Priority

My preference is to have sharp focus so I have all these set as follows:

• AF for Priority Set in AF-S and AF-C
• Standard for Aperture Drive to minimise any focus shift problems.  Focus Priority will open the aperture up for fast focussing above f8 and then close it down again when the shutter is released but depending on the lens being used can cause focus shift

I have had no issues with focus using the EMWL on my A7RIV.

In the article Alex mentions several times about the Canon 8-15 on Metabones IV converter hunting for focus.  I've been using the Canon 8-15 on the latest Metabones V converter for over 3years on my A7RIV and have never noticed any focus hunting.

Another macro lens option is the Sigma 150 macro with Canon EF mount.  I  have been using this with my Metabones V converter on my A7RIV and it works fine.  Focus speed is slow,  but it wasn't exactly a speed demon when I used it on my Canon dSLRs.

Edited February 5 by Gudge
Revised comments on Aperture Drive and added comment on Sigma 150 macro.

[Interceptor121 768]

All the Sony cameras I have used (A7RIV, A7C and A6600) have settings to optimise AF.  These are:

• Priority Set in AF-S and AF-C where you can choose between AF, Release and Balanced Emphasis (default)
• Aperture Drive (not on A6600) where you can choose between Focus Priority, Standard (default) and Silent Priority

My preference is to have sharp focus so I have all these set to favour AF and have had no issues with focus using the EMWL on my A7RIV
In the article Alex mentions several times about the Canon 8-15 on Metabones IV converter hunting for focus.  I've been using the Canon 8-15 on the latest Metabones V converter for over 3years on my A7RIV and have never noticed any focus hunting.

Other than the button and the led the mark IV and V perform the same and have the same software
That’s unlikely to be the reason for issues


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[Gudge 58]

12 minutes ago, Interceptor121 said:

Other than the button and the led the mark IV and V perform the same and have the same software
That’s unlikely to be the reason for issues

Perhaps the Mark IV Alex used didn't have the latest firmware version installed.  I've kept the firmware version on my Mark V up to date.   There have been 6 since I purchased my Mark V in early 2020, and many more for the older Mark IV.

[Interceptor121 768]

Perhaps the Mark IV Alex used didn't have the latest firmware version installed.  I've kept the firmware version on my Mark V up to date.   There have been 6 since I purchased my Mark V in early 2020, and many more for the older Mark IV.

Yes is at version 070 and there are many options to set


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[Phil Rudin 459]

Excellent review Alex, it has put into perspective particularly for full frame DSLR users the strengths and weaknesses of moving to the Sony A7R V or A1 which has the same specs and a bit more. 

I will second those users of the Canon 8-15 zoom who are having no issues with AF speed or lock-on issues. I started using the 8-15 with Metabones III and Sony A7R II. At some point I think when I went to A7R III/IV I had to do a firmware update because of the issues expressed in the review. It now has worked up to A1 without further issues. I also have the Sigma MC-11 and if I were ask to make a recommendation Sigma would be my choice, it has worked flawlessly out of the box.

[Davide DB 492]

On 2/4/2023 at 11:35 AM, Davide DB said:

Since many people have a large fleet of Nikon lenses, is there a proven Nikon F to Sony E adapter with autofocus?

 

Hello!

[Phil Rudin 459]

Try B&H photo they have several. 

[Alex_Mustard 0]

On 2/4/2023 at 10:35 AM, Davide DB said:

Since many people have a large fleet of Nikon lenses, is there a proven Nikon F to Sony E adapter with autofocus?

 

Here is a write up that comes up near the top on Google - no idea how good the advice is or which work best and the answer probably varies depending on which lenses you are adapting.

https://briansmith.com/nikon-lens-adapters-sony-e-mount-cameras/ 

As is clear from the Canon fisheye - using non native lenses is requires both the right adaptor and even the right firmware to get it to work.

Alex 

[Davide DB 492]

27 minutes ago, Phil Rudin said:

Try B&H photo they have several. 

Phil, don't get me wrong. I know exactly how google for shiny new toys on the net.

I was asking for a "proven" adapter, if any. But my real question was: if many WP users come from D850 or D500 why I don't see mention about using Nikon lens on Sony camera?

Maybe is a naive question. Sorry in advance.

[Alex_Mustard 0]

Thanks for the insight on the EMWL issues. Good to know they are not an issue on the newer Sony cameras. 

Thanks also for the reassurance about the fisheye. I should add that I was never discouraged from using the fisheye (it was my most used lens) and I produced a lot of pleasing images with it. It was just important to be clear for the review, that as tested fisheye AF was inferior to my Nikon, while Sony lens AF was superior. Also had I been planning to do a proper review pre-trip, I would have tried to sort it out in the field or at least tried an adaptor from one of the many Sonys that we had in my two workshops groups. I don’t really have time to come up to breathe during the Cayman workshops! 

Alex

[Alex_Mustard 0]

4 minutes ago, Davide DB said:

I was asking for a "proven" adapter, if any. But my real question was: if many WP users come from D850 or D500 why I don't see mention about using Nikon lens on Sony camera?

I don’t think many have switched yet. I think you should start the thread on the topic now - and it will probably end up with 1000s of views in 12 months!

[Phil Rudin 459]

7 minutes ago, Davide DB said:

Phil, don't get me wrong. I know exactly how google for shiny new toys on the net.

I was asking for a "proven" adapter, if any. But my real question was: if many WP users come from D850 or D500 why I don't see mention about using Nikon lens on Sony camera?

Maybe is a naive question. Sorry in advance.

As a long time Sony user I can tell you that the Canon adapters came well before the Nikon ones because it was a lot harder to get the AF working with Nikon. The Only adapter for Nikon I have used was for the Nikon 8-15 to a Nikon Z camera, that worked great. Hope the link from Alex helps.

[Davide DB 492]

I add here the experience of my buddy who got a A7RIV few months ago. I asked some info here on adapters...

First he got a Sigma 15mm and a MC11 adapter. Latest fw release on camera and adapter: a total mess. The camera gets totally unresponsive.

Then he got a Canon 8-15mm and the latest metabones. Simply perfect.

Other combinations work too. 8-15mm on MC11 and Sigma 15mm on metabones.

So from what I saw: beware of Sigma 15mm and MC11 and A7RIV with latest firmware. I read that many users use them but I guess they did not update ring or camera firmware. BTW Sigma 15mm is not on the list of MC11 compatible lens anymore.

Maybe with A7RV or A1 is a different story.

[Davide DB 492]

48 minutes ago, Alex_Mustard said:

I don’t think many have switched yet. I think you should start the thread on the topic now - and it will probably end up with 1000s of views in 12 months!

Hahaha Actually I'm not into photography and I was asking for my buddy who has a lot of DX Nikon glasses and he would like to use them on his new A7RIV in APSC mode but after the Sigma MC11 experience he is afraid to be a guinea pig

[Architeuthis 156]

11 hours ago, Davide DB said:

Hahaha Actually I'm not into photography and I was asking for my buddy who has a lot of DX Nikon glasses and he would like to use them on his new A7RIV in APSC mode but after the Sigma MC11 experience he is afraid to be a guinea pig

 

11 hours ago, Alex_Mustard said:

I don’t think many have switched yet. I think you should start the thread on the topic now - and it will probably end up with 1000s of views in 12 months!

Since there is no rush to switch from Nikon DSLR to mirrorless, as pointed out by several posters already, I believe that for people that have already a complete Nikon system, it may be better to wait until Nikon comes out with a reasonably sized Z-body with similar properties as the Sony A7RV (what may happen this year): The known compatibility problems of older Nikon lenses with Z-mount will remain, but they are smaller compared to mount the lenses on Sony cameras. In addition, these people will be able to use all existing and future Z-mount lenses, what will not be possible with Sony cameras. Also Sony lenses (e.g. the 28-60mm) can be used on Nikon Z-mount via adapter...

Wolfgang

[adamhanlon 0]

I know this is still a relatively moot point, but in terms of optical performance, the use of any adaptor will negate some of the beneficial optical design advantages inherent in a mirrorless system. Granted, the lens' optical performance will be the same as it is on an SLR, but one of the advantages of the redesign of lens mount flanges includes the possibility of better optical image quality. 

Effectively, this also emphasises that current SLR users should "wait and see" what the various brands do in terms of lens options. For new users, the only option is probably to buy SLR lenses that are not optimum and then upgrade them later, which kind of sucks. I guess this is the perils of being an early adopter. 

Native fisheye and a variety of macro focal lengths please....

[Interceptor121 768]

14 minutes ago, adamhanlon said:

I know this is still a relatively moot point, but in terms of optical performance, the use of any adaptor will negate some of the beneficial optical design advantages inherent in a mirrorless system. Granted, the lens' optical performance will be the same as it is on an SLR, but one of the advantages of the redesign of lens mount flanges includes the possibility of better optical image quality. 

Effectively, this also emphasises that current SLR users should "wait and see" what the various brands do in terms of lens options. For new users, the only option is probably to buy SLR lenses that are not optimum and then upgrade them later, which kind of sucks. I guess this is the perils of being an early adopter. 

Native fisheye and a variety of macro focal lengths please....

The adapter brings the performance exactly to the same point of a DSLR

If the lens is able or not to resolve the sensor resolution is always a challenge

The canon 8-15mm is an exceptional lens even on APSC with old models delivered 65 lpmm which is outstanding by all means

If a new fisheye native comes we do not know if this will beat or not the canon which works very well on canon high resolution DSLRs

Mirrorless reduced flange distance actually comes at price of increased chromatic aberrations and distortion that get corrected in software. Making lens smaller has a price especially for wide angle

[Isaac Szabo 90]

On 2/4/2023 at 2:44 PM, hyp said:

In another thread on here, it was mentioned that the focusing behaviour of the aperture changed with the newest Sony cameras (not sure, which model is the first with the new behaviour) which allows the EMWL to be used without issue.

 

On 2/4/2023 at 4:21 PM, Gudge said:

I have had no issues with focus using the EMWL on my A7RIV.

 

Yes, I mentioned in another thread that I recently had the opportunity to test it with the A7R IV, and in AF-C mode the issue is fixed since it focuses with the aperture stopped down (unlike my A7R II). I assume the other newer bodies like the A7R V behave similarly. 

Since then I’ve also had the opportunity to test it with the relay (I had only used the EMWL without it), and it seemed to reduce the backfocus issue (though MF was still a tad more accurate). So perhaps Nauticam should not be saying that it can be used without the relay without noting this potential issue. On the other hand, my testing showed better image quality without the relay, so I will continue to go without it and figure out a workaround for the issue.

Anyway, it seems that in my case the issue is caused by a couple factors (older camera, no relay) that won't apply to many other Sony users. On the other hand, Edward indicated that there was a wide range of behaviors across all the different camera models/lenses, so it's still unclear how much of an issue it might be for some of the other setups. 

I’m still curious if Alex knows about a new/updated focus unit that fixes the problem or if I just misinterpreted that line in the review?

[Alex_Mustard 0]

1 hour ago, Isaac Szabo said:

I’m still curious if Alex knows about a new/updated focus unit that fixes the problem or if I just misinterpreted that line in the review?

I had mistakenly thought that the Focus Unit was new. But as you all say, it is not. 

I did use the reversed viewfinder (designed so you can shoot without the relay). I didn’t try this on the Sony, only on my Subal SLR, as a preparation for Wetpixel Lembeh. Tried it in the pool and the sea (photo in the pool, taken with the A7RV). While it does a nice job flipping the image back to being correct, it does flip all the shooting information and also when you move the focus point, it goes in the opposite direction. I also found I had to be right at the end of the diopter adjustment on the viewfinder to get focus. Was going to have a play with it again before Lembeh.

Alex