JayceeB 52 Posted February 5 Folks, I have a friend planning on moving from a TG-6 to an ILC used specifically for underwater macro stills photography only. User of the system is a macro specialist and is looking for class leading auto-focus. User would like this setup to be the last purchase for 3-5 years. User already has optically fired strobes. Typical subjects are nudibranchs and other small subjects 2mm-30mm in length. Blackwater photography represents a very tiny proportion of all shooting. If you were building a system from scratch, what would you recommend in 3 categories: 1. Money no object (within reason...e.g. not Sony A1) 2. Used DSLR 3. Best practical value with high quality output I have given my opinion on MFT vs DSLR FF vs DSLR cropped vs Mirrorless FF vs Mirrorless cropped. There are a lot of choices now, and I'm curious with the release of some of the new Sony FF options and Canon cropped options what the wetpixel community would recommend. Thanks for your help! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Architeuthis 138 Posted February 5 (edited) Just my opinion: When your friend is currently using a TG for macro, MFT is certainly a worthy upgrade that will lead to substantial improvement in IQ. The practical value of MFT for macro is very good with the Zuiko 60mm and, for less clear waters, the Pana 45mm, both sometimes used with CMC-1 (seldom needed as 1:1, as provided by the lenses alone, already allows a subject that is 17mm long to fill the photo). In addition a 90mm IS macro, that allows even 1:2 magnification (8.5mm will fill the photo, even without closeup diopter)), will be announced soon by OM systems. This lens may well be very useful for macro UW, but we will see... => I think a OM-1 camera in Nauticam housing plus the macro lenses above are the best choice with regard to usability and give very good IQ. => In case your friend is out for the very best IQ available, a high resolution FF camera (e.g. Sony A7RV, but also DSLR) may be better choice, but the rich choice of lenses does not exist at present (and maybe never will). To fill the frame with a 8.5mm subject e.g., one needs an additional strong diopter to the macrolens that will provide a 1:4 magnification)... Wolfgang Edited February 5 by Architeuthis 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JayceeB 52 Posted February 7 Thank you, Wolfgang. My original list of recommendations was: OM-1 + 60mm and/or 90mm (when released) Canon R7 + RF100mm Sony A7R5 + 90mm + SMC-1 Nikon D850 + 105mm + SMC-1 Nikon D500 + 105mm User has no ILC or glass, and doesn’t plan on wide angle, which is why I also considered the DSLRs. AF is at the top of the list with IQ a close second. I have previous experience with an OM-D E-M1 MkII + 60mm, and enjoyed it for macro, but have not used the OM-1. I’m assuming if the OM 90mm tests well underwater, it would have better AF than a FF with a diopter, but maybe I’m mistaken on that fact? I also have experience with the RF100mm, but on an R5 + Inon UCL-90. I shoot more wide angle and a bit of macro, so the R5 makes more sense for me, but since then, the R7 came out which might be a better choice for dedicated macro? Other than that, I have no experience with the other setups. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimG 62 Posted February 7 Hi JayceeB I've used a D500 with either a 105mm and 60mm probably 80% of the time over the last 6 years. It's only in the last couple of years that I added the 60mm having had the 105mm on my previous system with a D800. The D500/105mm I've found to be a very good macro combination. It is sharp, quick on the AF and can produce either good, deepish DOF or dramatic images if used with a more open aperture. I like the combination especially for snoot shots and have found it great for the more "creative" type images. The only negative can be actually finding the subject! I use a 45-degree finder and can,. sometimes, find myself hunting around to actually locate the tiniest critters and get them in the viewfinder. I added the 60mm to get the more "fish photo" type images - but usually revert to the 105mm for more creativity or, as I say, snoot shots. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JayceeB 52 Posted February 8 Thanks, Tim! Did you ever try a diopter on your D500 + 105mm (for when you really want to hunt for your subject ) for super macro? Looks like we have: 1 vote : OM-1 + 60mm and/or 90mm (when released) Canon R7 + RF100mm Sony A7R5 + 90mm + SMC-1 Nikon D850 + 105mm + SMC-1 1 vote : Nikon D500 + 105mm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimG 62 Posted February 8 1 hour ago, JayceeB said: Did you ever try a diopter on your D500 + 105mm (for when you really want to hunt for your subject ) for super macro? Yeah, some time ago I bought a SubSee +10. But I just could not get on with it and sold it. Here's a couple of pics take with the D500/105 just to give you an idea. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bvanant 189 Posted February 8 It's the 2 mm end of the scale that is the big challenge. I would vote for the MFT with the OM-1 and the 60 macro and a good quality diopter. 2 mm is pretty small, you are getting in to things like dedicated inside the housing diopters as well. Bill 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JayceeB 52 Posted February 8 Great! Thanks for the samples Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Davide DB 418 Posted February 8 Olympus 90 mm lens just officially announced. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Davide DB 418 Posted February 8 5 hours ago, TimG said: 6 hours ago, JayceeB said: Yeah, some time ago I bought a SubSee +10. But I just could not get on with it and sold it. Me too. A friend lent me a CMC-1 and a Subsee +5. CMC-1 was nearly impossible to use for me (I'm a wimp at macro). I end up buying the more versatile CMC-2 but I still regret I sold the PanaLeica 45 mm port... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Architeuthis 138 Posted February 8 13 hours ago, JayceeB said: Thank you, Wolfgang. My original list of recommendations was: OM-1 + 60mm and/or 90mm (when released) Canon R7 + RF100mm Sony A7R5 + 90mm + SMC-1 Nikon D850 + 105mm + SMC-1 Nikon D500 + 105mm User has no ILC or glass, and doesn’t plan on wide angle, which is why I also considered the DSLRs. AF is at the top of the list with IQ a close second. I have previous experience with an OM-D E-M1 MkII + 60mm, and enjoyed it for macro, but have not used the OM-1. I’m assuming if the OM 90mm tests well underwater, it would have better AF than a FF with a diopter, but maybe I’m mistaken on that fact? I also have experience with the RF100mm, but on an R5 + Inon UCL-90. I shoot more wide angle and a bit of macro, so the R5 makes more sense for me, but since then, the R7 came out which might be a better choice for dedicated macro? Other than that, I have no experience with the other setups. It seems that very little objective information about comparison of macro AF performance UW exists (similar to the situation with center/corner sharpness of different domeport/wetlens & lens combinations). The OM-1 with its stacked sensor is, presumably, very effective in macro AF and this is confirmed in the Backscatter review by Jim Decker (his reviews are, however, always very optimistic): https://www.backscatter.com/reviews/post/OM-Systems-OM-1-Underwater-Camera-Review. This is opposed by the "over the water" review of DPReview that states that "The only thing not improved is the tracking system (C-AF + Tracking) for subjects the camera doesn't recognize." (https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/om-system-om-1-review#AF) - center spot C-AF&tracking (without subject recognition) is exactly the AF mode I use currently with my EM1-II & Zuiko 60mm (and it works o.k.). According to DPReview this AF method should perform similar between EM1-II and OM-1. => maybe one should not expect wonders from the OM-1, but probably it will work better than older models and firmware updates might improve the situation... Wolfgang Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bvanant 189 Posted February 9 I have the OM-1 and am waiting (perhaps in vain) for Isotta to build a housing. BVA Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
