Interceptor121 773 Posted February 20 Following an inquiry from @Alex_Mustard I decided to produce a short write up illustrating my thinking process and why I got a manual turtle trigger for my A1 https://interceptor121.com/2023/02/20/underwater-strobe-triggers-for-sony-cameras/ 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frogbmth 1 Posted February 20 Turtle is a good trigger but they need to improve the on/off switch in the next version Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Interceptor121 773 Posted February 20 I realised this thread should have been posted into light section if a moderator can move it please Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimG 62 Posted February 20 6 minutes ago, Interceptor121 said: I realised this thread should have been posted into light section if a moderator can move it please As if by magic...... done! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rwb500 24 Posted February 20 Wow, nice write up, thanks. I was going to buy the Turtle TTL version even though I never expected to use TTL, but now I see the non-TTL version has an advantage (besides simply being cheaper). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Interceptor121 773 Posted February 21 Wow, nice write up, thanks. I was going to buy the Turtle TTL version even though I never expected to use TTL, but now I see the non-TTL version has an advantage (besides simply being cheaper).The turtle TTL is the most complete trigger on the market however if you don’t need TTL or multishot programming it is another step to take into account Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Architeuthis 156 Posted April 25 My question is related to this older tread, so I post it here: I have Sony A7R5 and just started to use it UW. I went for the Nauticam manual flash trigger, as it seems to me to be the most compact one. I intend to buy an additional, second, trigger later (from Turtle or UW-technics), to have two flash triggers with me, for redundancy. I set the shutter speed to 1/250s and the flash mode to "slow sync" (as far as I understand this flowery designation means front curtain; according to the Nauticam manual their trigger does not perform rear curtain)... After the dive I noticed the shutter in the upper rim of the photos (the waters are cold here and I was very busy with the new camera/housing and did not notice it during the dive). Did I do something wrong and need to adjust different, or is 1/250 just too fast and I have to reduce to 1/200, or even lower? Thanks, Wolfgang Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Interceptor121 773 Posted April 25 45 minutes ago, Architeuthis said: My question is related to this older tread, so I post it here: I have Sony A7R5 and just started to use it UW. I went for the Nauticam manual flash trigger, as it seems to me to be the most compact one. I intend to buy an additional, second, trigger later (from Turtle or UW-technics), to have two flash triggers with me, for redundancy. I set the shutter speed to 1/250s and the flash mode to "slow sync" (as far as I understand this flowery designation means front curtain; according to the Nauticam manual their trigger does not perform rear curtain)... After the dive I noticed the shutter in the upper rim of the photos (the waters are cold here and I was very busy with the new camera/housing and did not notice it during the dive). Did I do something wrong and need to adjust different, or is 1/250 just too fast and I have to reduce to 1/200, or even lower? Thanks, Wolfgang The correct setting for fron curtain is Fill-flash Slow sync is intended to be shot in aperture priority to allow the flash to drop below 1/60 Set the flash to fill flash and try again 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Architeuthis 156 Posted April 25 8 minutes ago, Interceptor121 said: The correct setting for fron curtain is Fill-flash Slow sync is intended to be shot in aperture priority to allow the flash to drop below 1/60 Set the flash to fill flash and try again Thanks Massimo for the comment... Are you sure "Fill flash" is the right mode? Is this mode not working with a preflash for TTL measurement, before the actual flash (related to the shutter) is released? But I can easily try it out... Wolfgang Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Interceptor121 773 Posted April 25 23 minutes ago, Architeuthis said: Thanks Massimo for the comment... Are you sure "Fill flash" is the right mode? Is this mode not working with a preflash for TTL measurement, before the actual flash (related to the shutter) is released? But I can easily try it out... Wolfgang I am sure. All flash modes are ttl but your trigger will ignore it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Architeuthis 156 Posted April 25 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Interceptor121 said: I am sure. All flash modes are ttl but your trigger will ignore it I tested it out on land (the rig is assembled, it is raining here and we are waiting for nicer weather until we go for a dive)... You were right, also fill flash works. Unfortunately the shutter still shows up at the top of the image, no difference to "slow sync"... 1/200 works in both modes, maybe this is the fastest speed that can be achieved with Nauticam trigger and A7R5 (?)... Wolfgang Edited April 25 by Architeuthis Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Interceptor121 773 Posted April 25 31 minutes ago, Architeuthis said: I tested it out on land (the rig is assembled, it is raining here and we are waiting for nicer weather until we go for a dive)... You were right, also fill flash works. Unfortunately the shutter still shows up at the top of the image, no difference to "slow sync"... 1/200 works in both modes, maybe this is the fastest speed that can be achieved with Nauticam trigger and A7R5 (?)... Wolfgang To understand if the trigger is introducing a lag to react you would need to use another flash on the hot shoe or a sync cord The camera sync speed is definitely 1/250 and on my GH5 the nauticam trigger works to 1/400 which is higher than the official sync speed Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Architeuthis 156 Posted April 25 22 minutes ago, Interceptor121 said: To understand if the trigger is introducing a lag to react you would need to use another flash on the hot shoe or a sync cord The camera sync speed is definitely 1/250 and on my GH5 the nauticam trigger works to 1/400 which is higher than the official sync speed On our EM1II the (other) Nauticam trigger works up to 1/500, but the shutter is bigger in FF, this is another story... Wolfgang Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Barmaglot 251 Posted April 25 1 hour ago, Architeuthis said: 1/200 works in both modes, maybe this is the fastest speed that can be achieved with Nauticam trigger and A7R5 (?)... I recall reading somewhere that you need a TTL-capable trigger to get 1/250s flash sync on A7 series cameras; something to do with very precise timings required for it to work. With a manual trigger the quoted sync speed is 1/160s. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Interceptor121 773 Posted April 25 48 minutes ago, Architeuthis said: On our EM1II the (other) Nauticam trigger works up to 1/500, but the shutter is bigger in FF, this is another story... Wolfgang That was to understand if the trigger adds a lag. The camera will always sync at the declared x-sync using either a sync chord or a manual flash connected to the hot shoe Normally Nauticam triggers are very responsive so if the limit is introduced by the camera they may even overcome it 9 minutes ago, Barmaglot said: I recall reading somewhere that you need a TTL-capable trigger to get 1/250s flash sync on A7 series cameras; something to do with very precise timings required for it to work. With a manual trigger the quoted sync speed is 1/160s. My Turtle trigger works up to 1/400 as per manual with mechanical shutter in speed priority, 1/320 in mechannical and 1/200 in electronic Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisRoss 150 Posted April 25 9 minutes ago, Interceptor121 said: That was to understand if the trigger adds a lag. The camera will always sync at the declared x-sync using either a sync chord or a manual flash connected to the hot shoe Normally Nauticam triggers are very responsive so if the limit is introduced by the camera they may even overcome it My Turtle trigger works up to 1/400 as per manual with mechanical shutter in speed priority, 1/320 in mechannical and 1/200 in electronic The Turtle trigger might report to the camera, the same as a TTL trigger so the camera will then sync at the higher speed. Manual triggers that can exceed the published sync just use the electrical contacts without reporting their presence to the camera. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Interceptor121 773 Posted April 25 2 minutes ago, ChrisRoss said: The Turtle trigger might report to the camera, the same as a TTL trigger so the camera will then sync at the higher speed. Manual triggers that can exceed the published sync just use the electrical contacts without reporting their presence to the camera. Nauticam web page https://www.nauticam.com/products/mini-flash-trigger-for-sony-compatible-with-na-a7-a7ii-a9 Please note that with the Sony a7R IV, a7 IV and a7R V there is slight black banding at the top of the frame when using the max sync speed of 1/250. There is no banding at 1/200. For the Sony a1, the max sync speed of 1/400 is supported with the 26302 Mini Flash Trigger. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
makar0n 67 Posted April 25 (edited) On 2/21/2023 at 12:44 AM, rwb500 said: Wow, nice write up, thanks. I was going to buy the Turtle TTL version even though I never expected to use TTL, but now I see the non-TTL version has an advantage (besides simply being cheaper). Note that here the older Turtle triggers seem to be compared. TRT has released Turtle 2 TTL version. I cannot speak for Sony, but I just had the Olympus one delivered (Turtle 2 TTL) - all I need to do via USB is strobe selection. Once done, I can set every other setting (curtains, TTL/manual, even strobe power, up to 1/128) via camera, no need for USB anymore. One thing I am not sure is the HSS mode - for Retra at least there appears to be two entries in strobe selection, one specifically mentioning HSS. I am using Z240s, hence that is not a concern for me, but otherwise emailing Balzas might help - been talking to him extensively and he responds very fast, often within an hour. Edited April 25 by makar0n Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Interceptor121 773 Posted April 25 15 minutes ago, makar0n said: Note that here the older Turtle triggers seem to be compared. TRT has released Turtle 2 TTL version. I cannot speak for Sony, but I just had the Olympus one delivered (Turtle 2 TTL) - all I need to do via USB is strobe selection. Once done, I can set every other setting (curtains, TTL/manual, even strobe power, up to 1/128) via camera, no need for USB anymore. One thing I am not sure is the HSS mode - for Retra at least there appears to be two entries in strobe selection, one specifically mentioning HSS. I am using Z240s, hence that is not a concern for me, but otherwise emailing Balzas might help - been talking to him extensively and he responds very fast, often within an hour. In the Sony system the camera never fires the strobe in manual so the programming is done in a way that ttl is ignored by the trigger This step requires programming and is the biggest inconvenience with the Sony TTL trigger 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Barmaglot 251 Posted April 25 3 hours ago, Interceptor121 said: My Turtle trigger works up to 1/400 as per manual with mechanical shutter in speed priority, 1/320 in mechannical and 1/200 in electronic And 1/500s in APS-C crop mode, but you're not using an A7 camera, you're using an A1. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Interceptor121 773 Posted April 25 1 minute ago, Barmaglot said: And 1/500s in APS-C crop mode, but you're not using an A7 camera, you're using an A1. The question was is the trigger that adds the delay or is it the camera. This can only be answered using a x-sycn or a flash on the hot shoe in manual that is not a trigger and comparing. If those work fine (and i think they do) than the trigger is the issue Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Barmaglot 251 Posted April 25 34 minutes ago, Interceptor121 said: The question was is the trigger that adds the delay or is it the camera. This can only be answered using a x-sycn or a flash on the hot shoe in manual that is not a trigger and comparing. If those work fine (and i think they do) than the trigger is the issue You're welcome to argue the point with Pavel - Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Interceptor121 773 Posted April 25 16 minutes ago, Barmaglot said: You're welcome to argue the point with Pavel - Am not really bothered. I made my decision already the Nauticam trigger does not support rear curtain and therefore is not fit for purpose The UWT TTL trigger is TTL and I do not need TTL, which also put the Turtle TTL out of the mix. From my point of view (I want a manual trigger) the Turtle is perfect and that is what i got going back to the A7RV I am pretty confident that if you connect a sync cord to the camera it will fire at 1/250 https://helpguide.sony.net/ilc/2230/v1/en/contents/TP0002919994.html?search=flash Set the exposure mode to manual exposure (other than ISO AUTO is recommended for ISO sensitivity), and set the shutter speed to the slower of the following values or slower: Flash sync speed The shutter speed recommended by the flash. The flash sync speed is 1/250 seconds. If someone wants to go and try if sync speed improves other triggers it would be interesting from my point of view my system works as expected and the matter is closed I find surprising that Nauticam would be slower than other triggers but who knows Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
