C7070 DS125 It really works like this?

[henryfd 0]

I need advice!

I am experimenting with a c-7070, ike housing, ds125 ttl cable connected, ike dome port plus wcon 0,7 oly.

Settings: manual, external strobe only (ttl), iso 80, shutter 1/160, f: it depends and here lies the problem.

Problems and weirdness: I try to keep a high f-number (say no less than 5.6 ) to minimize the orrible pheripheric blur made by the add wide angle (absolutely orrible expecially from very near!!!).

So let say I shot at a subject at 2mt with F5.6, the strobe works real ttl and pictures are ok; if I try to close to f 6.3 (0,3 ev), it seems that the strobe gives a very weak flash ( like ttl not working) and the pictures comes pitch black! If I step back to f 5,6 then again the strobe works fine ( you can see a more bigger amount of light when it goes off) and the pictures again are quite ok.

Obviously this is just an example; some times I can push up f-stop more than one time before this happens and I guess it depends on how far I am from the subject, but the point is that when it happens it is very sudden and complete ( you shuld expect pictures more and more underexposed variing 0,3 f-stop at a time, but I think it is weird that it suddenly blackens out like this). And when in water, sometimes (specially if I have to keep far from the subject) I found that I have to keep f-stop very low ( 2.8) and I cannot choose to underexpose as I would like and the blur at the edges speed up very badly.

Another strange thing is that I tried a friend's ds125 and it does the same thing, but I found that it starts to blacken out an half F-stop after mine does. Why do they give a different output of light? Ok, half f-stop is not much, but still they are not the same and mine is brand new while my friend's is two years old! Will mine get better becoming older ( just like whisky does)?! !!!!

So is there somebody who has found the same things that I noticed and can tell me if it has to be like this or if something is wrong?

Sorry about my poor english and thanks for your answers.

Henryfd

[Peter Schulz 1]

I don't know what problem is. But here is a backup way to use your rig. Set the camera to slave mode and then set the DS 125 to 1/2 power. You should be able to get well lit pictures at ISO 80, speed 1/100, and f 5.6 out to about 1 meter.

 

http://www.splashdowndivers.com/photo_gall...up_settings.htm

[henryfd 0]

I've made some searching, read some post , got some info about TTL and made some more experimenting. Here what I found:

Let's take again my previus example(out of water but I am sure it will be the same in water, apart from distances): manual mode, external strobe only, iso 80, shutter 1/160, strobe on TTL, subject say about 5 meters far from camera.

In this situation I can use f-stop between 2.8 and 6.3 and TTL will take care of it, nice outcome; but if I step to f-stop 7.1 or above nothing comes out, all of a sudden pitch black and the sensation that strobe is giving a very short and weak flash.

If I swich the strobe to manual( full power) and the camera strobe setting to slave, then I can shot pictures of the subject at the same distance until I reach f-stop 11 ( of course at the end it is a little underexposed, but still accettable), and the sensation is that the strobe is giving the same strong amount of light (of course it has to!). This example shows that in manual full power I get about at least two f-stop more of light than what I get if I go TTL! How come??!!Why TTL cannot give me the same amount of output that manual does? I thought that TTL was there only to reduce light when it was to much not to limit it like this!

So the next thing I tried is to put the strobe a different distance from the subject than the camera ( for example: camera 2 meters, strobe 1 meter from subject). This experiment was with the original setting (TTL mode).

What I found is that when I get to the borderline distance ( the one where even a very little amount of f-stop (0.3 ev) suddenly produces a black picture) if I keep the strobe there and move the camera far away(as far as the cable permits) I don't have the problem and I am able to step up on f-stop. If I try to keep the camera in place (at borderline) and push the strobe far away from the subject and past the border line I get only blackness( suddenly) or if I want to have a picture I must open up f-stops on the camera.

If I am right, TTL works like this: when you shot, the strobe should produce a preflash wich the camera should use to calculate the right amount of light needed and then tell the strobe to flash just the right amount of light then stop when it is enough. So I guess that the problem with my gear is that this chain of communication somewhere is not always working correctly but still this seem to have a pattern. I don't think it is the strobe, since my friend's ds125 does more o less the same, so could it be the wiring in the housing? What do you think? I guess I should contact IKELITE , maybe they have some more understanding of what is going on. As it is now I have to use my TTL strobe in manual mode and I am not very happy with this since I bought it for TTL capabilities. Will see.

Henryfd

[Segerdahl 0]

Hi,

 

Did you ever contact Ikelite? If so, what did they say about it?

 

 

/Peter

[ikelite 0]

That is inherent in the 7070. It does the same thing with two Olympus land flash units that we tried. Once you get out of the TTL range of the strobe, even by a third stop, the camera wants to shut the flash duration way down. The solution is to open up the aperture, or possibly dialing back the FEC, so you are not underexposing. That may be why Olympus now offers manual settings on their newer strobes.

[dmoss 0]

I used the Oly 5060 for about 2 years. The 7070 is very close to the same camera. When I first started using it, I set all the camera settings per Peter's Splashdown Divers site. Check the link he left above. I didn't have any problems and that information started me off well. You might check his settings for the 5050 against what your camera is set to.

I'm wondering if you have an exposure compensation or flash compensation set that should be changed. Peter recommends, and I agree, that the flash compensation should be turned down a notch as the camera has a tendency to overexpose, rather than what you are getting. Also, make sure your strobe is aimed correctly.

As far as the dome port issue...I used the Ikelite dome and Oly wide angle lens and only had vignetting at the widest zoom, and that was only minor in the lower corners..easily cropped out. Make sure it is positioned per the Ikelite instruction sheet that came with the dome.

One other point that seems simple...but I've seen it happen. Make sure the housing hot shoe wire is positioned correctly on the camera.

Other than that, I'm at a loss. Possibly a hardware problem. If you try the above and still have problems, I would suggest you contact Ikelite.

[dmoss 0]

Well .. looks like Ike was typing at the same time I was. I wasn't aware that the 7070 had a problem. Looks like Peter's great settings for the 5050 and 5060 are out the window for the newest model.

[henryfd 0]

That is inherent in the 7070.  It does the same thing with two Olympus land flash units that we tried.  Once you get out of the TTL range of the strobe, even by a third stop, the camera wants to shut the flash duration way down.  The solution is to open up the aperture, or possibly dialing back the FEC, so you are not underexposing.  That may be why Olympus now offers manual settings on their newer strobes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thanks for your replay, even if I still have the problem, at list now I know it is not a foulty housing or strobe. But still I have to find a way! What will happen if I try to use a ttl slave sensor whit my DS125? Will it work this way or I will get the same problem I have now? Will it be able to give me full output or not? And how good will be the control over exposure?

Sorry if I ask, but what is FEC?

Was it like this also whit Oly C 5060, and if not, do you think it will be possible to fix it, say with a software upgrade? Shall I contact Olympus about it? And still, how is possible that nobody is experimenting the same problem I had? Am I the only one who wants to shot pictures with a high F stop ?

Thanks for answering again

Henryfd

[dmoss 0]

What Ike is basically saying is that the 7070 has a problem once you get too far from your subject. You can use TTL for macro work, but sounds like you will need to use manual strobe power for any wide angle. You will need to open up the aperture (lower F number), use a slower shutter speed, or as Ike suggested, dial back the FEC (flash exposure compensation) on the camera. Maybe a combination of all these. A manual EV controller may help you to fine tune the strobe power, but if you use one of these, you are not able to use the TTL function at all. The EV controller overrides the TTL signal. You just need to experiment and find out what works best for you.

[MikeVeitch 0]

Just had someone here with the exact same set up. I dove with him for 3 dives and we experienced similar problems. I am a great believer in bracketing and so had him take 4 or 5 shots of the same subject from slightly different angles etc. We (he) also experienced this blackness problem where the picture came out blank for no apparent reason. Whereas the one before and the one after were both fine. And yes, the strobe had recharged...

 

I eventually blamed this on the TTL being fooled from time to time. This was from 2 feet on 5.6...well within range of TTL. FOr some reason it just does it every now and again.

 

Another thing i noticed was shooting macro, ie about 1 to 1.5 feet away from subjects on F11 and getting very underexposed photos. Had to go back to f8 to get a good exposure. Again, f11 and 1-1.5 feet is well within the strobe to subject power of the DS125.

 

Interesting....

[TomH 0]

This thread may be dead but I'll post anyway.

 

I experience similar problems with a DS125 and Olympus (first 5060 and now 7070).

 

My problem however is that I cannot get a full (or any it seems) dump out of the DS125 at full manual setting. The picture is darker at full (sometimes even black) than it is at 1/8 power manual. On ttl it is usually fine. Like you, these shots are in my house, just checking stuff out.

 

I sent it to Ikelite. Just got the whole setup back from ikelite and they say it tested fine. I talked with them on the phone a couple times while it was there so I am sure they really looked hard.

 

The ony problem is that the setup came back "unable to duplicate the problem". I duplicated it right out of the box, first time. I think it has something to do with what Ike said above combined with a dumb operator problem. I just wish they had found it and said that, or told me how to operate it correctly.

[ikelite 0]

Last paragraph in our following on-line Guide shows: Setting DS-50 and DS-125 SubStrobes to manual rather than TTL requires changing camera to Slave mode.

 

http://www.ikelite.com/web_pages/gide_o5060.html

[TomH 0]

Thank-you very much.

 

I set the camera to slave and it works just fine. (But, of course, you knew it would)

 

It was a dumb operator problem and I was the dumb operator.

 

You have resolved a couple months of frustration. I am now ready to roll when I go back to Hawaii next week.

 

Thanks again.

[ehlersgrub 0]

Has anyone experienced this problem with an Olympus 8080/ DS-125? Iv'e been on only one dive trip with it and I was not pushing the aperature limit. I can't seem to duplicate the problem out of water. Thanks.

[TomH 0]

I've experienced the same thing with my 7070 and ds125. The funny thing is that it seems to happen most when I am in shadows or darker areas. Chased a white tip into a wreck and he turned back and passed 2 feet away from me. I was shooting (well trying to, mostly shoot, cuss, switch aperture or speed and shoot again ) the whole time and getting black. If I had switched to video and just shot with nothing I would have gotten the whole sequence. It would have been a little dark but still quite visible and useable.

 

I have switched to the manual method in some, more static, situations and it works just fine.

 

Came here to ask what I'm doing wrong but apparently I'm doing nothing wrong. (Man, that's a surprize )

[Segerdahl 0]

I've experienced the same thing with my 7070 and ds125.  The funny thing is that it seems to happen most when I am in shadows or darker areas.  Chased a white tip into a wreck and he turned back and passed 2 feet away from me.  I was shooting (well trying to, mostly shoot, cuss, switch aperture or speed and shoot again ) the whole time and getting black.  If I had switched to video and just shot with nothing I would have gotten the whole sequence.  It would have been a little dark but still quite visible and useable.

 

I have switched to the manual method in some, more static, situations and it works just fine.

 

Came here to ask what I'm doing wrong but apparently I'm doing nothing wrong. (Man, that's a surprize  )

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well that's a story!

 

I have the same setup, never been chased by a shark but also got black pictures. I thought they were pitch black, but when I edited them in my computer I found out that if I raise the contrast (not brightness) very very much I am able to see what it was I shot! OK, the picture is still terrible but I'm sure you will see your shark! I saw my lobster. ;-)), If you manage, please share the pictures! (or no one will ever beleive you ;-)).

 

As Ike has described before, the problem is that when using TTL you have to be very generous with the aperture and/or speed settings. Or the picture will be very very dark. I have also tried to shoot and reshoot the same shot and sometime it worked and sometimes not. But if I instead would have opened the aperture or chosen a longer speed, I would have got a good shot.

When using the UW-macro scene I have never got any black shots. The drawback is that it seldom picked the settings I wanted, but again all pictures came out more or less OK (mostly it was the autofocus that was the problem, but if I would have been able to go for a smaller aperture I might have got away with a non perfect autofocus).

 

As said before, when the TTL "works" (for instance when going for a larger aperture, longer speed or using the uw-macro mode, I haven't tested the uw-wide scene yet but I'm sure it works too), your pictures will get a little overexposed. Not that bad, but not perfect. It should be possible (I have yet to try this, please let me know if anyone has!!), to use the Flash Compensation to get a perfect exposure with TTL.

 

Hope this was of any help!

[Davidhol 0]

Ehlersgrub, for what its worth it does not happen with my 8080/ds50.

[slowhands 0]

That is inherent in the 7070.  It does the same thing with two Olympus land flash units that we tried.  Once you get out of the TTL range of the strobe, even by a third stop, the camera wants to shut the flash duration way down.  The solution is to open up the aperture, or possibly dialing back the FEC, so you are not underexposing.  That may be why Olympus now offers manual settings on their newer strobes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Another possible solution would be to increase the ISO setting, to allow the use of smaller apertures and TTL flash control, which is what you want. It should make the camera TTL exposure system allow faster shutter speeds, smaller apertures, and/or shorter strobe duration. On land you would be concerned with degradation of image quality, but I suspect that unless the water is perfectly clear, you probably won't notice a modest ISO increase.

[wolverine 0]

Just found out from another forum that this particular problem with the 7070 is resolved with the new firmware (ver 1.1). You should be able to download it from the Olympus site.

 

tim

[Segerdahl 0]

Just found out from another forum that this particular problem with the 7070 is resolved with the new firmware (ver 1.1).  You should be able to download it from the Olympus site.

 

tim

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Interesting, but can anyone confirm this!?

(I'll test it soon!)

 

I never bothered to upgrade to v1.1 as this is what Olympus claims to be the only changes/improvements:

 

- - -

 

C-7070 Wide Zoom Firmware Ver.1.1 has incorporated the following upgrade.

[Modification]

- Printing pictures with the date via a PictBridge connection has been improved.

* To add additional languages, the camera has to be updated with the latest firmware

 

- - -

 

I can confirm though that adjusting the flash intensity setting works very well for DS-125 in TTL mode. This is great as it solves the problem with getting slightly overexposed shots when using DS-125 (and DS-50?) and TTL. It makes it fully possible to even get more or less (depending on the setting) underexposed shots with TTL without getting pitch black shots.

[mikedive 0]

Hi all ,

 

this problems apeared along testing the new D2000w with our Oly TTL converter it is a problem about the 1.0 firmware version with 1.1 no problems at all and also the FL20 and FL36 are working now as they should .

The problem is alwas in the same if you are try to take pics with a f stop upper then 8 and a distance more then 3 m in a low light area but only with external stobe with internal all is working well. This is called a bug and olympus solved it with V. 1.1 without any comment.

 

Michael