16 replies to this topic

[okuma]

Any one identify this guy shot in KBR last Dec.About 2-3" high as shown.

[Giles]

I was under the impression tht Blue Ring Octopus only show their blue rings when threatened .. or are getting ready to use their poison.

So that would suggest to me that a Blue Ring Octopus would be able to change colours and hide its blue rings ... similarly to other octopus changing colour.

even though there is only one blue ring .. I would think that it is a Blue Ring Octopus .. if there are different types .. i wouldn't be able to do any latin stuff.

[RRRad]

I believe this is a "poison ocellate octopus" (Octopus mototi).

I also have a pair of shots from Lembeh of one, found by KBR's Ben (divemaster) at site TK2. Very cool :-)

[Leslie]

In Mark Norman's book "Cephalopods a world guide" he gives a distribution of Okinawa, eastern Australia, & Rapa Island for O. mototi so I suspect the Lembeh/KBR animals are something different. There are several octopus species which have ocelli (the pair of single blue or gold rings between the bases of arm pairs 2 & 3) and a lot of small species are still undescribed so it's hard to know what name to put on Okuma's pic. The blue spot octopus (at least 10 species in the genus Hapalochlaena) have multiple blue rings on their heads & bodies, not just one.

Giles is right about the blue ring octopus only showing the rings under stress or harassment. Lots of people complain about never seeing one but they probably have. Normal coloration is plain brown so these small octopuses are easily overlooked.

[bmyates]

I think if he had more blue spots, you'd be able to see the other spots when he flared the one you CAN see there. Whenever I've seen them, the spots are all either muted (when they're trying to hide or blend in) or very visible when they're feeling threatened and want to flash a warning. I think it would be very unusual for one spot to be brilliant like that, and no other spots even show at all (not even their outline).

Here are two photos of the same B.R.O. - one while he's trying to blend in with the sand, and the other when he decided I needed a more obvious "warning". Note that in each case the intensity of ALL his spots is the same.

Edited by bmyates, 10 February 2007 - 03:41 PM.

[Giles]

Bruce .. i think Leslie was saying that the blue ring (such as i mentioned and you have posted there) and the Ocotopus in the Original image are completely different species, they just have a ring in common .. the question now is geographically can the Poison Ocellate Octo be found where the originally posted octo was found .. as they aren't listed there normally.

I love octopus .. they are cool .. and these guys are awesome to me .. even more so than the mimic .. i love funky colours and poisonous creatures .. i'm interested to know more about the Poison Ocellate ... pacific creatures rock .. but then i am happy that most things in the Caribbean are almost always harmless (he says after having been hit in the summer by a box jelly)

[RRRad]

I found the following short video clips, all from Lembeh Strait:

http://www.oceanfoot...1ae0405b5c9a0b3

I think the octopus in Okuma's shot is the same as what we see in the footage (and the same as what I saw... sorry, I haven't scanned my slides yet or I'd post it). The one I saw was quite relaxed and did not display the distinctive striped pattern shown in some of the videos. The following says the armspan reaches 50cm, which is about the size I remembered seeing, and some individuals have two ocelli on each side (the one in my image(s) has two, just checked):

http://www.environme...ent.pl?id=77080

I'd be willing to bet a drink or two that it is Octopus mototi or a very close facsimile. Mind you, I'd probably be happier losing the bet than winning :-)

[jrosenf]

I'm pretty sure that the species in question is actually Octopus siamensis. Mark Norman identified a couple of shots (of the same specimen) that I had taken in Anilao, Philippines in 2002 that appear to be the same species as this photo. At the time, he informed me that the species was only previously known from the Gulf of Thailand.

My shots can be found at http://www.vibrantse...s4_anilao21.htm and http://www.vibrantse...s9_anilao21.htm.

[RRRad]

Oh boy, I didn't expect another species name to pop up. Well, with my untrained eye, Jeff's shots of Octopus siamensis and the various shots of Octopus mototi look like the same species.

I'm going with "Octopus siamensis or mototi" until we hopefully find something that describes the difference between the two.

Well they are are beautiful and very unique animals and I feel privileged to have seen one regardless of what we call it.

[Leslie]

Thanks for chiming in Jeff. Good to see you here - I'm a big fan of your invert shots.

I'd go with O. siamensis. As the top expert on cephalopods for that part of the world Mark Norman knows more about the species & their distributions than anyone. Don't forget it's not uncommon for more than one species to have the same color pattern even when they occur in different parts of the world.

[jrosenf]

Leslie, thanks very much for the compliment about my photos. I appreciate it!

[AllisonFinch]

Leslie, I am raising this old post. I always hesitate before saying a species cannot be the one pictured just because it is "not within the (known) geographical boundaries". With diving spreading to new areas all the time, ranges are being expanded constantly.
It was said that PNG could not have Hippocampus Colmani, since a book said it was outside their range. I have clearly seen it in PNG, however.
I saw this photo (not mine) and it appears to be mototi. It was taken in Sulawesi.
Check out this link and let me know what you think.

www.untamedimages.com/indo2006/picpage1-8.shtml

Edited by AllisonFinch, 09 May 2008 - 06:48 PM.

[Leslie]

Hi Allison - You have a good point that deserves to be raised. Lots of species occur throughout wide areas of the Indo-Pacific but are only reported from a few locations because that's all the people writing books or scientific papers know about.

The problem as I see it is the difficulty of making a reliable id from photographs. Lots of things are undescribed or they're described but no one knows what they look like in life, or many different species look similar (like all these 2-spot octopuses with stripes). Another problem is that many web images are mis-identified so if you compare a photo to one on the web you could be misled.

I tend to be conservative & if I have something written by an expert I'll follow that. As it is I use waffle-ly statements like "seems to be", "looks like", "similar to this photo called X" instead of saying "it is speciesX". Not being really knowledgeable about anything but worms also keeps me cautious about ids.

It could certainly be mototi but honestly, as variable as octopus species are, I can't see an external species level difference based on the images. (Of course that could be the result of my own octo-ignorance.) The difference between mototi & siamensis may be internal or something on the underside like the arrangement of suckers. Jeff's photo was given a name by Mark Norman so I trust that id more than another. And did you notice that Jeff's critter also represented a range extension from what's reported in books?

It would be great if Kuiter would confirm the presence of Hippocampus pontohi in PNG. In his description of H pontohi Kuiter did say there was a similar undescribed species in PNG but he didnt' mention how they differed or even if they can be distinguished on external characters. So I'm cautious.

Cheers, Leslie

[secretsea18]

The Mototi octopus in the OP has been seen in Lembeh Straits when I was there in June-July 2007. Got some great shots of it too!. The Guides were going bonkers when they found it. It is a beautiful little octopus. This is the one I saw in Lembeh in June 2007.

[Leslie]

So much for caution.

[MatthewAddison]

The Mototi octopus in the OP has been seen in Lembeh Straits when I was there in June-July 2007. Got some great shots of it too!. The Guides were going bonkers when they found it. It is a beautiful little octopus. This is the one I saw in Lembeh in June 2007.

Here is his baby picture?????, KBR - May 2006

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[Graham Abbott]

I don't my ID book in front of me now, though this does look like O. mototi. I've seen quite a few in PNG and Indonesia. If this species is under any threat it will show brown and white stripes like this one attached, the two shots are of the same animal! Did your's exhibit this behaviour at all! I know it's always so cool to harrass animal thoguh simply getting near them will amke them show their true colours, as with blue ring octopus!

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Edited by Graham Abbott, 23 May 2008 - 10:31 PM.